Let's talk about Holden

jmucchiello

Masterstroke said:

Unlike PBR, Omni Shader does offer a Opacity cutout.

https://www.daz3d.com/pbr-skin-plus

Masterstroke

jmucchiello said:

Masterstroke said:

Unlike PBR, Omni Shader does offer a Opacity cutout.

https://www.daz3d.com/pbr-skin-plus

At an extra prize to pay. 
Omnisurface Base by Mello is free:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/703161/omni-surface-shader-test/p4?srsltid=AfmBOoqPC88oRxK7U-62Kt5ycbs9gaPJAN3T8mzDFGEyDFu15AkM9Nob

barbult

Tessellation settings are in the Parameters pane.

Masterstroke

For some reasons, I don't really understand, copy and paste Omni shader from e.g. Holden's settings does not work as expected. Quite often the target shader looks to wet and as I said before textures are way to bright.

Ocean

Masterstroke said:

For some reasons, I don't really understand, copy and paste Omni shader from e.g. Holden's settings does not work as expected.

Copy to where? To a different shader?

Quite often the target shader looks to wet

There is a problem with Iray on both PBRSkin and also on OmniSkin where if you are not on Frame 0 on the animation timeline, there can be a visual fault with specular settings on iray preview. If you have too wet or too dry skin and nothing is working to adjust them, the only fix I am aware of is to restart Daz. This has been a problem for years.

and as I said before textures are way to bright.

What textures? If they were made for another shader, then they are as bright as they were intended to be for that other shader.

Ocean

3DIO said:

@Ocean
At the moment, I've not much clue as to what I'm doing with it, but looking at the output of OmniSkin, it's as if you've simulated an epidermis layer, and that's the single most important thing I felt the other shaders were lacking.  Whatever it is I'm seeing, well done! 

I did not make this shader. It is NVIDIA's OmniSurfaceBase shader, which you can find documented online.

Skin tissue is simulated only with subsurface scattering i believe, same with PBRSkin.

Buggered if I can find that "Render Tesselation Sides" setting though!  I've searched both the Surfaces and Render Settings tabs using the actualt search panel for each window and still can't find it.  I'm just wondering if it's because i'm rendering on a CPU instead of GPU.  Does it perhaps show only for Nvidia cards?

As stated by other poster, its under Parameters.  You can adjust the profile of hair curves and poylines in Daz Studio using "Render Tesselation Sides". It is a feature of Iray so independent of card type.
0 and 1 = Iray Curve,
2 = 2D strip,
3+ = geometry "fibre"

I dont understand why the behaviour of "0" and "1" are so different, given they are both rendering as iray curves, but for some reason they have an impact on some of the surface parameters of Omnihair shader.

@Masterstroke
 while it looks as if there's a normal map in use on the lips, the rest of him looks to be without normal maps.  No idea how I've managed to do that, so I'm putting it down to the weirdness I'm having with my DS install.

You can reapply the material preset to get the maps back to default.  If there is a problem with your install, then you would have received an error about a missing file upon load.

 

Masterstroke

Ocean said:

Masterstroke said:

For some reasons, I don't really understand, copy and paste Omni shader from e.g. Holden's settings does not work as expected.

Copy to where? To a different shader?

To the materiials of a different character.
works like this:
Select a material of a character, e.g. Torso
Save as Shader preset
choose different character
Load all of its materials and apply OmniSurface base to those
now apply the previous save shader preset contrl-click and select ignore
Fill in the matching texture maps for this character in your OmniSurfaces materials. 
You will now see, that your character's diffuse texture maps appear way to bright.
In order to fix this, copy the skin textures in Photoshop to a new layer, set the new layer to multiply by 50% and merge the layers to visible. 
Save those diffuse maps under a new name.

Masterstroke

3DIO said:

@Barbult
Thanks, and you are by far my most favourite Hyacinth today!

@Masterstroke
I was having a similar problem in general, and what worked for me was to ensure that the shader you are copying to is of the same type.

@Ocean
I thought it was a shader you'd customised.  Either way though, it seems to handle the effect of epidermis better than UberShader.  It looks especially good at handling a very thin layer of epidermis.  There's definitely an impovement although I must admit I don't know what it is in a technical sense.

Regards the tessellation, I suppose it could have something to do with normals calculation, it's my only guess, my thinking being that perhaps by setting it to zero, it could internally be a command to handle the normal in the most suitible way, as opposed to handling it with a specific set of faces/sides.

Anyway, one more version of the same image, since the original was rendered as a much wider shot than that shown in the crop of the first image:  I only hope he doesn't start demanding a pay rise after seeing himself in true, cinematic widescreen!

 

Click Image for Full Resolution

 

Looks even more amazing in monochrome. 

barbult

My understanding about Tessellation is that 0 is for dForce hair Iray curves and 1 is for strand based hair created with strand based hair editor that hasn't been converted to dForce by a PA. I have no idea why they should be different, though. If you use 1 on dForce hair, it is way too shiny.

Ocean

Masterstroke said:
Select a material of a character, e.g. Torso
Save as Shader preset
choose different character
Load all of its materials and apply OmniSurface base to those
now apply the previous save shader preset contrl-click and select ignore
Fill in the matching texture maps for this character in your OmniSurfaces materials. 

Is that easier than simply applying the OmniSkin Material preset and dragging and dropping the replacement maps from another character (assuming that is the end goal)?

You will now see, that your character's diffuse texture maps appear way to bright.

I understood this part.  This is often a problem when using Daz color maps in other software like Unreal or Blender - they often appear too bright.

The influence of the base color map for Iray Uber and PBRSkin shaders in fact is really not that significant on the final appearance for those shaders.  The final appearance in the classical PBRSkin and Iray setups is mostly driven by the Translucency Color, assuming the vendor put a high Translucency weight, which they should have for realistic skin (85%+).

As a general rule, I wouldnt expect maps fine-tuned for one shader to work on another shader they weren't made for without adjustment.

In order to fix this, copy the skin textures in Photoshop to a new layer, set the new layer to multiply by 50% and merge the layers to visible. 
Save those diffuse maps under a new name.

You can do this in LIE also, which some users may find easier and more accessible.  A few years ago Daz added Multiply etc to LIE blending modes.

Of course, Photoshop will give you more control if you want to tweak the values within Photoshop using Adjustment Layers or (per your method) Multiply layer transparency values and see the effect in real time in Daz. Resaving in photoshop and pressing Ctrl+i will refresh the textures in Daz, which makes fine-tuning the look development stage a lot easier.  In contrast, it's not so easy to adjust all the LIE settings at once as quickly as you can export out adjustments from Photoshop (or Substance Painter) etc.

Ocean

3DIO said:

@Ocean
I thought it was a shader you'd customised. 

I would just say implemented, not customised.  The actual .mdl shader file has been sitting installed in your Daz shaders folder for years unused/unimplemented ...

garibaldiscat_92601f60b2

Where would I find Holden's bodyhair??  The description mentions all kinds of hair, but I can't seem to locate it in any folder?  Thanks.

nemesis10

garibaldiscat_92601f60b2 said:

Where would I find Holden's bodyhair??  The description mentions all kinds of hair, but I can't seem to locate it in any folder?  Thanks.

By location, My Daz 3D Library/people/genesis 9/anatomy/ocean/ocn holden/ocn holden hair name.duf and in smart content:

 

 

garibaldiscat_92601f60b2

nemesis10 said:

garibaldiscat_92601f60b2 said:

Where would I find Holden's bodyhair??  The description mentions all kinds of hair, but I can't seem to locate it in any folder?  Thanks.

By location, My Daz 3D Library/people/genesis 9/anatomy/ocean/ocn holden/ocn holden hair name.duf and in smart content:

 

Thank you so much!!  That's exactly where it was... I never thougt to check that particular folder!

Fauvist

I don't have an NVIDA card or an NVIDA anything.  Is this skin going to work on my MAC wihout the NVIDA thing?

Thanks

nemesis10

Fauvist said:

I don't have an NVIDA card or an NVIDA anything.  Is this skin going to work on my MAC wihout the NVIDA thing?

Thanks

I work with my trusty iMac and it definitely works on my machine.

daer-thing

Yeah looks pretty realistic. Although the foot morphs on the 10th picture look super painful (especially top middle and top right images). DId someone just mangle his feet with a hammer?!

Masterstroke said:

Holden is in the store and amazes with unbelievable realism in shaping and skin materials. 
https://www.daz3d.com/ocn-holden-hd-for-genesis-9

Can anybody tell us more here?
What is "Omni Skin"?