How to create a CBS for negative value of Proportion Height on G9 ?

Elor

Hello,

I tried to create a CBS for Hanako 9 Body for shoes, and it worked fine as long as I didn't dial Hanako 9: on top of Hanako 9 Head and Body, it's will also activate Hanako 9 Proportions, which is a controler for various morphs related to the proportions of various body part, including Proportion Height: when Hanako 9 is set at 100%, Proporition Height Value is set at -43%.

For some reason, when Proportion Height on G9 is set at a negative value, the feet are bend a bit with the heel of the feet higher than the toes, which is not the case when Proportion Height is set at a positive value.

I don't know if it's intended or not, but either way, it has a visible impact on shoes' heels, more visible on high or extremly high heeled shoes than on flat footed shoes: the lower the negative value of Proportion Height, the smaller the heel (the heel area in general but it's just very visible on high heel).

Until now, all morphs I created where for properties set at a 100% and I don't know how to create a CBS to take care of a problem cause on shoes by a morph with a negative value. And because the morph has no visible impact when its value is positive, I also can't create a morph for the 100% value hoping that it'll take care of the negative value too.

Another possible solution would be to create Hanako 9 CBS with the fixed height of the high heel, but it would mess her alternative shapes because two of them are taller than Hanako 9, so with a smaller value for Hanako 9 Proportions (60% I think) and would mess any character made with a partial value of Hanako 9 Body and no use of Hanako 9 proportion (I rarely if ever blend character, but who knows, maybe I'll do it in the futur and at that point, may have forgotten that problem…), and it would be a fix only for Hanako, not for all other characters using Proportion Height to reduce their height.

Does someone know how create a CBS for negative value of Proportion Height on G9 ? Or knows about a better solution?

Richard Haseltine

Multiply by a scalar of -1, and set the limit to 0 so that if the drivere is over 0 it will have no effect. I would think you will need to set this manually in Property Hierarchy, though you could deliberately set it to -1 when Hanoko was 100%, with limits off, to get the right multiplier and then set the limits afterwards.

crosswind

You also can simply use a controller property named : body_ctrl_ProportionHeightScaleNeg which is provided by Daz3D in G9 Starter Essentials. After Proportion Height is dialed, with Show Hidden Properties turned on, you can find body_ctrl_ProportionHeightScaleNeg in Parameters pane. Then set it as a Controller of the cbs on 1st stage.

Besides, Proportion Height property has a defect when it's dialed as negative, feet deform... i.e. they bend a bit as you observed ~~ There better be another bs to fix it. 

Elor

Thank you both, I'll see what I can do.

@crosswind: I can use the value of a property on the figure to control the activation of a morph on shoes fitted to her?

About fixing Proportion Height, I'm nowhere near the level needed to create a proper bs to fix it on G9 directly: I'm already sweating bullets while trying to get clothes fitted correctly on various body shapes when the clothes are following a body shope very closely (less when they are more loose).

And I suppose at that point of the life of Genesis 9, it's unlikely to be fixed by Daz if I opened a ticket because it would likely mess with all the shoes already released with CBS for characters like Hanako who are using Proportion Height, especially considering that Victoria 9 does use it too (even if it's only at -4.5%) and she's likely one of the most popular figures for G9.

crosswind

Elor said:

Thank you both, I'll see what I can do.

@crosswind: I can use the value of a property on the figure to control the activation of a morph on shoes fitted to her?

Yep, you can. Just like using an FBM on the figure with setting it as Auto Follow. Then save the Auto Follow morph as a Modifier Asset with the shoes to control another corrective morph on the shoes as needed.

About fixing Proportion Height, I'm nowhere near the level needed to create a proper bs to fix it on G9 directly: I'm already sweating bullets while trying to get clothes fitted correctly on various body shapes when the clothes are following a body shope very closely (less when they are more loose).

And I suppose at that point of the life of Genesis 9, it's unlikely to be fixed by Daz if I opened a ticket because it would likely mess with all the shoes already released with CBS for characters like Hanako who are using Proportion Height, especially considering that Victoria 9 does use it too (even if it's only at -4.5%) and she's likely one of the most popular figures for G9.

Understood~ But to me, the defect of negative Proportion Height just comes from  the improper value set on Metatarsals. It's easy to fix it and it won't bring issues to existing characters as well as shoes / heels etc. products with negative Proportion Height dialed.

I made a corrective modifier as attached. You may give it a try by extracting the data folder to your Daz Lib. I tested it with Hanako 9 / Victoria 9. It works as expected and even fixes the heel deforming issues with Proportion Height dialed from -20% ~ -200% with high heel shoes... So far so good ~

Perhaps you might not need to make corrective morph for the shoes ~~ In the below screenshot, Hanako 9 on the right has the corrective morph for negative Proportion Height. You can see the difference on the heel of the shoes ~~

 

Elor

crosswind said:

Yep, you can. Just like using an FBM on the figure with setting it as Auto Follow. Then save the Auto Follow morph as a Modifier Asset with the shoes to control another corrective morph on the shoes as needed.

Sorry, I meant using a controller from the figure, a controller without autofollow, to control a morph on the shoes: body_ctrl_ProportionHeightScaleNeg is not set for autofollow, and on the shoes, I only saw a negative value for Proportion Height.

Understood~ But to me, the defect of negative Proportion Height just comes from  the improper value set on Metatarsals. It's easy to fix it and it won't bring issues to existing characters as well as shoes / heels etc. products with negative Proportion Height dialed.

I made a corrective modifier as attached. You may give it a try by extracting the data folder to your Daz Lib. I tested it with Hanako 9 / Victoria 9. It works as expected and even fixes the heel deforming issues with Proportion Height dialed from -20% ~ -200% with high heel shoes... So far so good ~

Perhaps you might not need to make corrective morph for the shoes ~~ In the below screenshot, Hanako 9 on the right has the corrective morph for negative Proportion Height. You can see the difference on the heel of the shoes ~~

It's a bit strange honestly: your corrective morph is solving the problem for some shoes but not the others where instead, it'll make the heels higher.

Apparently, having an existing CBS is one of the reasons it's fixing the problem (I checked with City Sandals by HavanaLibere or Tifa High Heels by Prefox) but I also found pairs of shoes without an existing CBS that did work fine with your corrective active (PFX Helene Heels, from the cooperation between Prefox and Belldazine, the Kuro shoes from Mada). And on shoes like the Mabel ones from HavanaLibere, your corrective is making the heels higher.

I suppose it'll depend on how each pair of shoes was set up 

crosswind

Elor said:

crosswind said:

Yep, you can. Just like using an FBM on the figure with setting it as Auto Follow. Then save the Auto Follow morph as a Modifier Asset with the shoes to control another corrective morph on the shoes as needed.

Sorry, I meant using a controller from the figure, a controller without autofollow, to control a morph on the shoes: body_ctrl_ProportionHeightScaleNeg is not set for autofollow, and on the shoes, I only saw a negative value for Proportion Height.

Got it ~ Yup, if a property on Genesis figure is not set as Auto Follow, like body_ctrl_ProportionHeightScaleNeg, it'll also work if you set it as a Controller to activate corrective morph(s) on the shoes.

Understood~ But to me, the defect of negative Proportion Height just comes from  the improper value set on Metatarsals. It's easy to fix it and it won't bring issues to existing characters as well as shoes / heels etc. products with negative Proportion Height dialed.

I made a corrective modifier as attached. You may give it a try by extracting the data folder to your Daz Lib. I tested it with Hanako 9 / Victoria 9. It works as expected and even fixes the heel deforming issues with Proportion Height dialed from -20% ~ -200% with high heel shoes... So far so good ~

Perhaps you might not need to make corrective morph for the shoes ~~ In the below screenshot, Hanako 9 on the right has the corrective morph for negative Proportion Height. You can see the difference on the heel of the shoes ~~

It's a bit strange honestly: your corrective morph is solving the problem for some shoes but not the others where instead, it'll make the heels higher.

Apparently, having an existing CBS is one of the reasons it's fixing the problem (I checked with City Sandals by HavanaLibere or Tifa High Heels by Prefox) but I also found pairs of shoes without an existing CBS that did work fine with your corrective active (PFX Helene Heels, from the cooperation between Prefox and Belldazine, the Kuro shoes from Mada). And on shoes like the Mabel ones from HavanaLibere, your corrective is making the heels higher.

I suppose it'll depend on how each pair of shoes was set up 

After testing City Sandals with both G9 Base as well as Hanako 9, actually I found my corrective modifier make the shoes / heels look more correctly and even better.

You can see the screenshot 1 down below. Without corrective modifier on the left, the heels cannot touch the ground which make the sandals look weird, while with the corrective modifer on the right, the heels are right on the floor... then you don't have to tweak them. I have to say the default shape of these City Sandals are not correctly made.  However, City Sandals do have fixed bs for Hanako 9 that make things really work. (like Gracie High Heels that I tested in above screenshot... they also have fixed bs for Hanako 9)

Mabel Strappy Sandals don't have fixed bs for Hanako 9, so they make things worse. (screenshot 2)

So, I think we may have to fix them case by case. For the cases like Mabel ones, you may click the link icon of "overrides controllers" on cbs_ProportionHeightNeg and Alt Click to zero it. But still, you have to fix its blend shape as per the character you use.

Elor

crosswind said:

After testing City Sandals with both G9 Base as well as Hanako 9, actually I found my corrective modifier make the shoes / heels look more correctly and even better.

That what I called fixing the problem: when a CBS exists, on the various shoes I tested, your corrective morph fixed the smaller heels problem they all had with Hanako 9 dialed at 100%.

I have to say the default shape of these City Sandals are not correctly made.  

What do you mean?

All shoes with a CBS for Hanako I tested have the same problem as the city sandals: the heels are too small once Hanako 9 is dialed at 100%, but are correct if only Hanaka 9 Body is dialed without Hanako 9 Proportions.

I looked a bit at the PFX Shoes and they were done using the rigidity group trick shared by Esha in her tutorial on how to rig shoes but Kuro by Mada doesn't (at least I didn't see any rigidity groups using the Geometry Editor in vertex mode when I checked here).

crosswind

Elor said:

crosswind said:

After testing City Sandals with both G9 Base as well as Hanako 9, actually I found my corrective modifier make the shoes / heels look more correctly and even better.

That what I called fixing the problem: when a CBS exists, on the various shoes I tested, your corrective morph fixed the smaller heels problem they all had with Hanako 9 dialed at 100%.

I have to say the default shape of these City Sandals are not correctly made.  

What do you mean?

All shoes with a CBS for Hanako I tested have the same problem as the city sandals: the heels are too small once Hanako 9 is dialed at 100%, but are correct if only Hanaka 9 Body is dialed without Hanako 9 Proportions.

I looked a bit at the PFX Shoes and they were done using the rigidity group trick shared by Esha in her tutorial on how to rig shoes but Kuro by Mada doesn't (at least I didn't see any rigidity groups using the Geometry Editor in vertex mode when I checked here).

You're right, I should've meant the same. With proportion properties dialed, the heels turn shorter. I still think the culprit comes from the improper scale values in Metatarsals ~~

And yes, rigidity groups are used for preventing the shoes from being deformed by scaling / proportion issue. It turns out to be an alternative way ~