Nvidia plans heavy cuts to GPU supply in early 2026

kenmo

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

NylonGirl said:

Richard Haseltine said:

A company might, to make maintenance and support logistics easier. But due to the very different APIs nVidia and AMD are not as simple to switch between - if different truck makers used different fuels then an industry might well settle on just one, especially if it had clear advantages for their operations.

I don't think it's a clear advantage anymore. Their whole business depends on a product that seems increasingly unobtainable. 

Exactly my point. Most of us are not Disney or Pixar. We can not afford the very expensive hardware upgrades for our consumer level computers. The PC revolution was all about giving the average household access to powerful computer tech. Now we are tranding back towards the old mainframe environment with centralize storage and processing. We are losing the autonomy of our desktops which were created many years ago because of the control of the mainframe.

There needs to be a break away from Nvidia for the average computer user who wishes to pursuit 3D art. 

 And by "advantage" I menat does a better job, which does not seem to be how you are using it here.

Sorry I do not understand what you mean? But I believe I am using the software tools I own (DAZ, Vue, 3D Coat, MOI3D, Curvy3D, Blender)  to the advantage of my workflow. 

I do OWN an AMD R7 3700x, 32 gb of DDR4 and a Nvidia RTX 2060 Super with 8 gb of RAM. Are you suggesting I should forke out just under $1000.00 Canadian to upgrade my gpu to take advantage of Iray? Sorry there are other solutions availabe that do not require a Nvidia gpu. Vue works super fine with my present hardware setup.

kyoto kid

...yeah this and hte ludicrous spike in DRAM prices makes it a double barrel situation The upgrade I was tying to save for is now over 2200 USD and that excludes a GPU as i have an EGVA 3060 XC still in the box. 

I spec'd out  DDR4 system which is about 160$ less than the DDR5 upgrade originally cost before the price spike but that that is a serious step backwards in performance and capacity..

Not sure if this production cut will also affect the pro grade cards (formerly known as the Quadro series) 

Currently due to supply issues already occurring RTX 5090s are going for between 2,500 and 3,300 USD.  Prices for the RTX Pro 4500 are (also 32GB DDR7) ae between 2,250 and 2,450. USD.  This is likely what we will see for all GeForce GI{us across the line in the coming months.

Besides the cost, working in the cloud is limited by the speed of one's connection as upload speed is slower than downloading. I tend to do a number of test renders before committing the final,  Not sure I'd want to pay for all that extra time.

Masterstroke

It is time to bring the big guys down, by keeping our wallets closed.
No paywall
No cloud service
No AI
No spyware UI
All I need to do, is to pull my plug.
Looks like the future is analog again.

kenmo

Masterstroke said:

It is time to bring the big guys down, by keeping our wallets closed.
No paywall
No cloud service
No AI
No spyware UI
All I need to do, is to pull my plug.
Looks like the future is analog again.

Well said and agree 100%. 

We also really need more support for AMD in the 3D world. Competition is a good thing. 

I guess I'll hang onto the older version of DAZ Studio and use the less demanding 3Delight. No requirements to fork out of a hefty sum of money for a gpu when food, housing, transportation and other costs are hiking. People are living homeless in the streets, children are going to bed hungry in the promised land of Canada and America.  And we are supposed to spend big bucks on a "hobby"?

The direction is the world going towards is sickening.

PS: I must applaud DAZ for helping to lessen the cost of 3D with all the fantastic freebies and items selling a great bargain.

Torquinox

I'm not sure amd gpu cards are some magical refuge. Last I checked, they never held more than a few percentage points of the gpu market, they have launched cards with no stock on hand, and their cards require the same materials as nvidia cards to produce. To date, afaik, Apple is the only major pc and device manufacturer to spurn both companies with their metalFX graphics tech, and I don't know how well that's worked out, either.

Torquinox

kyoto kid said:

...yeah this and hte ludicrous spike in DRAM prices makes it a double barrel situation The upgrade I was tying to save for is now over 2200 USD and that excludes a GPU as i have an EGVA 3060 XC still in the box. 

I spec'd out  DDR4 system which is about 160$ less than the DDR5 upgrade originally cost before the price spike but that that is a serious step backwards in performance and capacity..

Not sure if this production cut will also affect the pro grade cards (formerly known as the Quadro series) 

Currently due to supply issues already occurring RTX 5090s are going for between 2,500 and 3,300 USD.  Prices for the RTX Pro 4500 are (also 32GB DDR7) ae between 2,250 and 2,450. USD.  This is likely what we will see for all GeForce GI{us across the line in the coming months.

Besides the cost, working in the cloud is limited by the speed of one's connection as upload speed is slower than downloading. I tend to do a number of test renders before committing the final,  Not sure I'd want to pay for all that extra time.

If your goal is to use the 3060, maybe you'd be better off buying a well-specced refurb computer from a few years ago or something? I built my current computer in 2021. It's going fine. Maybe I should have bought a refurb server, but I didn't. I have a 12600k chip, and it's been fine. Also, IDK about you, but I've never been in the market for a 5090. Real-world, 16GB VRAM would be a nice boost over the 12 I've got. And in practice, DDR4 ram is good, too. Got 64GB. It's up to you. It's just, you've been talking about that 3060 card for years now. It'd be nice for you to finally get to use it.

kenmo

Torquinox said:

kyoto kid said:

...yeah this and hte ludicrous spike in DRAM prices makes it a double barrel situation The upgrade I was tying to save for is now over 2200 USD and that excludes a GPU as i have an EGVA 3060 XC still in the box. 

I spec'd out  DDR4 system which is about 160$ less than the DDR5 upgrade originally cost before the price spike but that that is a serious step backwards in performance and capacity..

Not sure if this production cut will also affect the pro grade cards (formerly known as the Quadro series) 

Currently due to supply issues already occurring RTX 5090s are going for between 2,500 and 3,300 USD.  Prices for the RTX Pro 4500 are (also 32GB DDR7) ae between 2,250 and 2,450. USD.  This is likely what we will see for all GeForce GI{us across the line in the coming months.

Besides the cost, working in the cloud is limited by the speed of one's connection as upload speed is slower than downloading. I tend to do a number of test renders before committing the final,  Not sure I'd want to pay for all that extra time.

If your goal is to use the 3060, maybe you'd be better off buying a well-specced refurb computer from a few years ago or something? I built my current computer in 2021. It's going fine. Maybe I should have bought a refurb server, but I didn't. I have a 12600k chip, and it's been fine. Also, IDK about you, but I've never been in the market for a 5090. Real-world, 16GB VRAM would be a nice boost over the 12 I've got. And in practice, DDR4 ram is good, too. Got 64GB. It's up to you. It's just, you've been talking about that 3060 card for years now. It'd be nice for you to finally get to use it.

 

Buying a refurb desktop or servier is a great idea. I purchased two refurbed Lenovo ThickCentre Mini computers from BestBuy. They are not used for 3D or 2D work but for web surfing when my main computer is busy rendering, or running an app like Handbrake or multipar.

On youtube there are a few videos of people picking up an used or refurb computers, and sold the individual parts for much more than they paid for the computer.  BestBuy usually has refurb computers & servers for sale on their website.

Dareshiranu

In six years the main CUDA patent should expire, another has already due to non-payment of annual fees in 2018 - which I find weird. 

kenmo

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

NylonGirl said:

Richard Haseltine said:

A company might, to make maintenance and support logistics easier. But due to the very different APIs nVidia and AMD are not as simple to switch between - if different truck makers used different fuels then an industry might well settle on just one, especially if it had clear advantages for their operations.

I don't think it's a clear advantage anymore. Their whole business depends on a product that seems increasingly unobtainable. 

Exactly my point. Most of us are not Disney or Pixar. We can not afford the very expensive hardware upgrades for our consumer level computers. The PC revolution was all about giving the average household access to powerful computer tech. Now we are tranding back towards the old mainframe environment with centralize storage and processing. We are losing the autonomy of our desktops which were created many years ago because of the control of the mainframe.

There needs to be a break away from Nvidia for the average computer user who wishes to pursuit 3D art. 

Daz can use only the render engines that are available for license on acceptable terms. And by "advantage" I menat does a better job, which does not seem to be how you are using it here.

I am sorry you feel I am not doing a "better job" with my renders. I will try to improve them.  

IceDragonArt

kenmo said:

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

NylonGirl said:

Richard Haseltine said:

A company might, to make maintenance and support logistics easier. But due to the very different APIs nVidia and AMD are not as simple to switch between - if different truck makers used different fuels then an industry might well settle on just one, especially if it had clear advantages for their operations.

I don't think it's a clear advantage anymore. Their whole business depends on a product that seems increasingly unobtainable. 

Exactly my point. Most of us are not Disney or Pixar. We can not afford the very expensive hardware upgrades for our consumer level computers. The PC revolution was all about giving the average household access to powerful computer tech. Now we are tranding back towards the old mainframe environment with centralize storage and processing. We are losing the autonomy of our desktops which were created many years ago because of the control of the mainframe.

There needs to be a break away from Nvidia for the average computer user who wishes to pursuit 3D art. 

Daz can use only the render engines that are available for license on acceptable terms. And by "advantage" I menat does a better job, which does not seem to be how you are using it here.

I am sorry you feel I am not doing a "better job" with my renders. I will try to improve them.  

I 100% know that is not what Richard meant.

Elor

kenmo said:

I am sorry you feel I am not doing a "better job" with my renders. I will try to improve them.  

It was a comment about rendering engines, not one about how good or bad any of us is at creating renders.

WendyLuvsCatz

I am increasingly becoming a one framer or 2 framer instead of an animator

because using Wan2.2 to animate between the rendered frames is faster and more realistic than DAZ studio even on my own PC

(though I tend to use LTX more because I can do a 121 frame animation in 20 minutes, not as good as Wan but that takes me 4 hours)

I use Pinokio as too freaked out by bricks and nodes to use ComfyUI

same thing under the hood

using online services it's a no brainer, the only limiting factor is payment methods 

I won't give credit card details to Chinese sites and not many have paypal so I am limited to free tiers so a single 5 second video a day

I have no issues buying from China, the amount of stuff I bought from Temu attests to that  using Paypal of course

 

Richard Haseltine

kenmo said:

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

NylonGirl said:

Richard Haseltine said:

A company might, to make maintenance and support logistics easier. But due to the very different APIs nVidia and AMD are not as simple to switch between - if different truck makers used different fuels then an industry might well settle on just one, especially if it had clear advantages for their operations.

I don't think it's a clear advantage anymore. Their whole business depends on a product that seems increasingly unobtainable. 

Exactly my point. Most of us are not Disney or Pixar. We can not afford the very expensive hardware upgrades for our consumer level computers. The PC revolution was all about giving the average household access to powerful computer tech. Now we are tranding back towards the old mainframe environment with centralize storage and processing. We are losing the autonomy of our desktops which were created many years ago because of the control of the mainframe.

There needs to be a break away from Nvidia for the average computer user who wishes to pursuit 3D art. 

Daz can use only the render engines that are available for license on acceptable terms. And by "advantage" I menat does a better job, which does not seem to be how you are using it here.

I am sorry you feel I am not doing a "better job" with my renders. I will try to improve them.  

No, I am talking about how a company decides which tools and products to integrate into its production - in this case, the render engine(s) used in Daz Studio. The decision will have, in addition to other factors, have taken into account what people collectively seemed to want (before Iray there had been a lot of interest in Lux Render, I would suspect that was a factor), what is available to license for inclusion, under what terms (some may have ben avaialble with stipulations about output  size, or requirements for watermarks, for example that would not have been attractive) and at what price, and how well it can be integrated. Once an engine has been chosen switching to or adding another not only has to match or exceed the current options, it also has to be practical to create conversion tools for (the tools to convert 3Delight materials to Iray had to be developed, as far as I know in-house; I would think the need to do this kind of thing again may have been one factor militating against moving to the new shader system when 3Delight switched) and for PAs to support (supporting Iray and 3Delight was already a lot to ask) and to justify all that effort it would need to show the prospect of generating customer activity.

NylonGirl

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I won't give credit card details to Chinese sites and not many have paypal so I am limited to free tiers so a single 5 second video a day

I have no issues buying from China, the amount of stuff I bought from Temu attests to that  using Paypal of course

In the United States, the Chrome web browser has a way to create a "virtual card". It allows you to generate a new, perhaps temporary, credit card number and verification code to use for the shady website. And the real card's account gets charged but maybe they can't keep using the virtual card number to buy all the pieces for their new robot.... their new girl robot...

kenmo

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

NylonGirl said:

Richard Haseltine said:

A company might, to make maintenance and support logistics easier. But due to the very different APIs nVidia and AMD are not as simple to switch between - if different truck makers used different fuels then an industry might well settle on just one, especially if it had clear advantages for their operations.

I don't think it's a clear advantage anymore. Their whole business depends on a product that seems increasingly unobtainable. 

Exactly my point. Most of us are not Disney or Pixar. We can not afford the very expensive hardware upgrades for our consumer level computers. The PC revolution was all about giving the average household access to powerful computer tech. Now we are tranding back towards the old mainframe environment with centralize storage and processing. We are losing the autonomy of our desktops which were created many years ago because of the control of the mainframe.

There needs to be a break away from Nvidia for the average computer user who wishes to pursuit 3D art. 

Daz can use only the render engines that are available for license on acceptable terms. And by "advantage" I menat does a better job, which does not seem to be how you are using it here.

I am sorry you feel I am not doing a "better job" with my renders. I will try to improve them.  

No, I am talking about how a company decides which tools and products to integrate into its production - in this case, the render engine(s) used in Daz Studio. The decision will have, in addition to other factors, have taken into account what people collectively seemed to want (before Iray there had been a lot of interest in Lux Render, I would suspect that was a factor), what is available to license for inclusion, under what terms (some may have ben avaialble with stipulations about output  size, or requirements for watermarks, for example that would not have been attractive) and at what price, and how well it can be integrated. Once an engine has been chosen switching to or adding another not only has to match or exceed the current options, it also has to be practical to create conversion tools for (the tools to convert 3Delight materials to Iray had to be developed, as far as I know in-house; I would think the need to do this kind of thing again may have been one factor militating against moving to the new shader system when 3Delight switched) and for PAs to support (supporting Iray and 3Delight was already a lot to ask) and to justify all that effort it would need to show the prospect of generating customer activity.

Thanks for clarifying. Truly appreciate it.

If I read the FAQ about the new version of Daz Studio correctly, older graphic cards like my RTX 2060 Super 8GB will loose some functionality and even perhaps no longer be supported unless I can find the $500 to $1000 (Canadian) to purchase a newer 4xxx or 5xxx Nvidia card. Not sure in these hard economic times how many loyal DAZ users will be able to afford to continue using DAZ if that is indeed true.

Again sorry about misunderstanding your prior post about "doing a better job".

Take care

Kenmo

kenmo

WendyLuvsCatz said:

I am increasingly becoming a one framer or 2 framer instead of an animator

because using Wan2.2 to animate between the rendered frames is faster and more realistic than DAZ studio even on my own PC

(though I tend to use LTX more because I can do a 121 frame animation in 20 minutes, not as good as Wan but that takes me 4 hours)

I use Pinokio as too freaked out by bricks and nodes to use ComfyUI

same thing under the hood

using online services it's a no brainer, the only limiting factor is payment methods 

I won't give credit card details to Chinese sites and not many have paypal so I am limited to free tiers so a single 5 second video a day

I have no issues buying from China, the amount of stuff I bought from Temu attests to that  using Paypal of course

 

I've order a couple of things from AliExpress which NEVER arrived. And later had my credit card compromised. However majority of purchases on AliExpress where quite legitimate.

Richard Haseltine

kenmo said:

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

Richard Haseltine said:

kenmo said:

NylonGirl said:

Richard Haseltine said:

A company might, to make maintenance and support logistics easier. But due to the very different APIs nVidia and AMD are not as simple to switch between - if different truck makers used different fuels then an industry might well settle on just one, especially if it had clear advantages for their operations.

I don't think it's a clear advantage anymore. Their whole business depends on a product that seems increasingly unobtainable. 

Exactly my point. Most of us are not Disney or Pixar. We can not afford the very expensive hardware upgrades for our consumer level computers. The PC revolution was all about giving the average household access to powerful computer tech. Now we are tranding back towards the old mainframe environment with centralize storage and processing. We are losing the autonomy of our desktops which were created many years ago because of the control of the mainframe.

There needs to be a break away from Nvidia for the average computer user who wishes to pursuit 3D art. 

Daz can use only the render engines that are available for license on acceptable terms. And by "advantage" I menat does a better job, which does not seem to be how you are using it here.

I am sorry you feel I am not doing a "better job" with my renders. I will try to improve them.  

No, I am talking about how a company decides which tools and products to integrate into its production - in this case, the render engine(s) used in Daz Studio. The decision will have, in addition to other factors, have taken into account what people collectively seemed to want (before Iray there had been a lot of interest in Lux Render, I would suspect that was a factor), what is available to license for inclusion, under what terms (some may have ben avaialble with stipulations about output  size, or requirements for watermarks, for example that would not have been attractive) and at what price, and how well it can be integrated. Once an engine has been chosen switching to or adding another not only has to match or exceed the current options, it also has to be practical to create conversion tools for (the tools to convert 3Delight materials to Iray had to be developed, as far as I know in-house; I would think the need to do this kind of thing again may have been one factor militating against moving to the new shader system when 3Delight switched) and for PAs to support (supporting Iray and 3Delight was already a lot to ask) and to justify all that effort it would need to show the prospect of generating customer activity.

Thanks for clarifying. Truly appreciate it.

If I read the FAQ about the new version of Daz Studio correctly, older graphic cards like my RTX 2060 Super 8GB will loose some functionality and even perhaps no longer be supported unless I can find the $500 to $1000 (Canadian) to purchase a newer 4xxx or 5xxx Nvidia card. Not sure in these hard economic times how many loyal DAZ users will be able to afford to continue using DAZ if that is indeed true.

Again sorry about misunderstanding your prior post about "doing a better job".

Take care

Kenmo

The 10x0 cards are deprecated - nVidia has said it will drop them, but hasn't yet done so. It will be the 20x0 card's turn next, but that would seem likely to be at least a couple of years away.

kyoto kid

Torquinox said:

kyoto kid said:

...yeah this and hte ludicrous spike in DRAM prices makes it a double barrel situation The upgrade I was tying to save for is now over 2200 USD and that excludes a GPU as i have an EGVA 3060 XC still in the box. 

I spec'd out  DDR4 system which is about 160$ less than the DDR5 upgrade originally cost before the price spike but that that is a serious step backwards in performance and capacity..

Not sure if this production cut will also affect the pro grade cards (formerly known as the Quadro series) 

Currently due to supply issues already occurring RTX 5090s are going for between 2,500 and 3,300 USD.  Prices for the RTX Pro 4500 are (also 32GB DDR7) ae between 2,250 and 2,450. USD.  This is likely what we will see for all GeForce GI{us across the line in the coming months.

Besides the cost, working in the cloud is limited by the speed of one's connection as upload speed is slower than downloading. I tend to do a number of test renders before committing the final,  Not sure I'd want to pay for all that extra time.

If your goal is to use the 3060, maybe you'd be better off buying a well-specced refurb computer from a few years ago or something? I built my current computer in 2021. It's going fine. Maybe I should have bought a refurb server, but I didn't. I have a 12600k chip, and it's been fine. Also, IDK about you, but I've never been in the market for a 5090. Real-world, 16GB VRAM would be a nice boost over the 12 I've got. And in practice, DDR4 ram is good, too. Got 64GB. It's up to you. It's just, you've been talking about that 3060 card for years now. It'd be nice for you to finally get to use it.

...yeah that is something I'm considering as I alluded to in my post.  Still a letdown as it is a generation older and I tend  to overbuild to create headroom for future upgrades,.

I still plan to go the upgrade route instead of purchasing a used system as all the components I'm looking at are new, not used or "refurbished"   My drives are still good I have a pretty hefty PSU and plan  to use my current case that has 7 fans (including a 200mm filtered intake on the left side panel) and enough room for a "brick" of a CPU cooler for a 12 core Ryzen 9 5900X

This version is built on an ASUS Prime B550+ AM4 MB, as well as has 64 GB DDR4-3200 DRAM (expandable to 128), a Samsung 990 Pro 1 TB M2 for the boot drive, and Arctic Freezer twin fan CPU air cooler (not going to mess around with water cooling as the radiator would take the place of the two 120mm upper case exhaust fans and aftermarket closed loop ones are not as good as a custom built integrated system)..

I already have a 4 TB and 2 TB HDD as well as a 2 TB SSD and 850 W PSU. As I mentioned the RTX 3060 XC which draws less power than the Titan-X and outperforms it by over 50%.

The price of this alternate specification is 842 USD - a I metnioned about 160 USD less than the original AM5 design which included 96 GB of DDR5 (expandable to 192) that now costs 2,233 USD.  An upgrade should be just that, and the plan was building now for the future which would allow me to move up to a higher VRAM GPU as a later addition (preferably a 32 GB RTX Pro 4500 that uses just under a third of the power of that a 5090 requires and even 50 W less than my old Titan).

With texture files becoming "heavier" (with G9 we now have 8K textures) that 32 GB will be necessary.

Crikey if I ever hit the lotto I'd have the funds to build a 32/64 core/thread EPYC powered system with an RTX Pro 6000 that has 96 GB of VRAM, along with 384 GB of memory to support it. (I actually have the specs drafted up for it "just in case").

kenmo

I too was looking at a RTX 3060 with 12 GB. In September and October they were starting to fall a bit in price. Going price in Canada was somewhere around $359. I decided to wait until November (Black Friday) and December (Boxing Day sales) and now the same gpu goes for over $400.00. Some are asking near $600.00.

This 3D software obsession with Nvidia has to stop and there is a need to develop more for gpus by Intel, AMD/ATI, Matrox (are they still in the gpu market?), etc.

Can you imagine if Microsoft developed an os that only ran on Intel and not AMD? If your Linux distro only worked on an AMD platform?

Yet 3D hobbyists and artists are forced to tolerate this insanity.

Cheers & Happy New Year everyone..

PS: Many years ago Novell's Netware was the primary network operating system for file/print servers. Where are they now?

I worked as a systems admin and our organization had close to 70 servers (file/print, web, database) mostly running Novell Netware with NDS services.

15 years later all of our servers except those running legacy services transitioned to Windows server, Linux (CentOS, Red Hat, SUSE) as virutalized servers on VMWare.

 

kenmo

Richard Haseltine said:

The 10x0 cards are deprecated - nVidia has said it will drop them, but hasn't yet done so. It will be the 20x0 card's turn next, but that would seem likely to be at least a couple of years away.

Thanks again Richard for clarifying this for me. Truly appreciate it.