Just a comment on updating to new Genesis models.
leo04
Posts: 377
I have been updating to each new Genesis model since I begain working with DAZ back when Victoria 5 came out. I have invested quite a bit in the subsequent models but finally have stopped with Genesis 8 & 8.1.
I get that each new model has had some great improvements, and think that is great, but it is also become an expense for me I can't absorb.
I would just like to mention this because i suspect I am not alone and would like to suggest to the community that they continue to create new items for the older models, I am sure they all get used a lot.
I use a variety of them in my work, mostly because I like them and the personality each one has.
I hope the creators will continue to improve things but also remember that there are some of us that would love to have new items created for our older models.
Thanks.
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Comments
Even as someone who deeply appreciates vendors still supporting G8, I always feel the "You should support G8 because some people can't afford to upgrade to G9" argument is flawed whenever it comes up.
I mean no disrepect by this, but to a vendor it is going to sound a lot like "Why don't you try to sell things to people who have no money?"
The vendors have their sales data; they know when it's no longer worth financially supporting a generation far better than we as customers do. Past that point, it only really makes sense for vendors on a personal "I still use this generation and want to still make my stuff for it" level.
It doesn't seem to me like they're saying "you should try to sell things to people who don't have money". It seems more like, "there are people who will only spend their money on older generation characters". I'm one of those people. I continue to buy Genesis 8 things. Some of the purchased items are newly created items from the year I typed this post. But I haven't spent any money on Genesis 9 yet. And the money was spent at sites that sell new Genesis 8 items.
The specific argument was "it is also become an expense for me I can't absorb."
That's a perfectly reasonable reason for someone not to move to G9, but less so as a reason for vendors to still cater to you.
In any case, I reiterate my point that vendors know how many people are still buying G8 and earlier far better than we do.
Maybe vendors should then check if a sales tactic of bundling G9/8/.1 products for a higher base price sells more than selling the different generation products apart for a lower base price? Some people - me included - might refrain from spending money for something that they don't want/need and would be glad to see the price for a the part of a product they WOULD want/need to be a bit lower.
Which would also works for DAZs (or any real world) sales, btw. Trying to make me buy something I don't want/need just makes me ignore that sale. I don't buy a pound of broccoli to get my steak for a 5% reduced price.
Just to clearify, When I said I could not absorb the cost I was reffering to moving my Character into G9. I have a character from G1 that I have moved into G3 and then G8.1. In each case I purchased items that I could use on all these versions. Now with my G8.1 even it I want to move my Character into G9 it would require purchasing a litnany of new items for the G9 Character as so many of my earier items won't fit the G9 model. I use G1 thru G8.1 models in my artwork for a variety of reasons, and while the G9 model has some compelling features, they are not enough to warrent my moving into it.
My artwork displays enough detail and variety as it is. Yes there are other outlets to purchase items for the older models, and I avail myself of those venues.
I guess what I am saying is I am not moving my main Characters into G9. I have some G9 stuff but it is very little. Perhaps if I was new to DAZ I would beging with G9 now but after so many years I have come to conclude that for the moment I dont need to. I have the Characters I need and can produce the imagery I want to with results I am more than satisfied with.
Good luck to all the G9 creators, you do great work and perhaps some time in the future I will avail myself of it. For now at least, and for my pocketbook's sake I am just not going to do it now.
Thanks.
PS: I have notice that some vendors are now producing G8, G8.1, G9 compatable items. Some of these items are on my list of future purchases because of the compatability.
I tend to buy the stuff that makes a figure compatable with the earlier/older generations , love RiverSoft Arts and SickleYeild for making things like clothes easier ,I do buy the morphs for each generation ,but wait to buy characters ,unless it's Toons or Centuars ,until much later ,then I occupy myself bring older head morphs ,characters to the newer generation .......
I don't expect vendors to cater to me or support my interests, and they shouldn't expect me to support them and buy something that isn't of interest to me.
I can respect the time and talent it takes to make content, even if I don't personally think it's successful in what it is intended to be.
When there is a a male character, male hair or male clothing I think is successful, I buy it. That's becoming much less frequent, though. As a buyer, that's not great for me, but I understand a PA's need for a decent ROI and a general business decision to follow the market's interest.
I like it, when content is still available for G8.1, as I didn't jump on the G9 wagon. I always hoped that G9 would be more Blender friendly, but there was no approvement in this respect.
As a main Blender user, I transfer the Genesis stuff to Blender. I also transfer V4.2/M4, and G3 to G8/G8.1. So, I have a huge library now, which I need for my project including clothes.
So far, I see no use for G9, but there were some great clothes for G9 which I try to fit to G8/G8.1. With dForce this is manageable, but I would appreciate it, if they are also made for G8/G8.1 by default.
Though I don't use G9 very frequently but I don't understand what you mean by "...G9 would be more Blender friendly". How Blender friendly do you expect G9 to be then ?
According to my understandings, Daz is a content provider and so I hoped that they make a figure that can be easily transferred to Blender and other CG programs to use the features there without workarounds.
I have a workflow for G8/G8.1 now and G9 doesn't make this workflow easier and so it brings no benefit to me.
When creating the bridges, they should clearly see possibly changes for G10 to make the bridges much simpler. I would even love to be able to load a Daz character natively to Blender with an importer.
Just my ideas and others may see this differently.
I see.... and I agree to some extent. Most of the official bridges don't do well and are seriously lack of bug fixing ~ That's why I only use Blender + Diffeo.
IIRC, you also use Diffeo, correct ? You can directly load or open a native DUF file whatever it's a Scene or Character Preset.... into Blender. Does that help ?
Yeah, I'm still on the fence about G9 so I mostly just get the official characters bundles that I like, since I'm paying Premier I can get at least one each month anyway, and also I get some stuff here and there if I really like it and there is a really good discount, but for the most part I buy and fully support artists like Sue Yee, xtrart-3d, Val3dart and others I can't remember at the moment, who still makes their content for G8 and G9. Honestly, in my case it's not a money thing, it's just that I'm still not sure about G9 and, heck, at this point I wouldn't be surprised a new figure is on the way. I'm really sad awesome artists like lilflame and Sveva, who were still making G8 stuff when they were on Renderosity and I got most of it, now that they are here they are only making G9 content, so yeah, I haven't been buying that much from them now. I assume there is pressure from Daz to PAs here to make G9 stuff and probably one of the reasons here is where you see more G9 stuff than on other sites like Renderhub or Renderosity. That sort of makes me think that G8 stuff is still selling well but as it was said, only vendors really know how much better G9 sells or if it doesn't. I think I remember reading a creator on Renderhub saying his G9 content sells 3 times more than any new G8 he makes, but don't quote me on that.
At the very least, as an adult content creator I can say G9 hasn't been adopted in this "field" and though I don't know how much is the adult market for Daz (and I've always been curious about it), I imagine it has to be rather big, so I can see how G9 probably isn't selling that well as G8 used to. Another proof of it would be how at this point in G9's life we still see active G8 content production, which was not the case for G3 almost 3 years after G8 was released. And that's one of the reasons I suspect a new figure is probably on the way, one that "unites" us all. Problem is... and this probably is just my own ignorance, I still don't expect that figure to be compatible with G8 content and I can't think about what it could have to be so much better to use than G8. Still, I always keep an open mind.
from the looks of it, MANY adult themed thrid party vendors are dropping Genesis 9 support because of the lack of customers wanting Genesis 9. plus for specififc things (like one vendor that makes genitila and breast grafts - IYKYK), they said that the uni-shape doesn't work compared to seperate bodies.
Genesis 9 is also extremely heavy compared to Genesis 8/8.1. even i have trouble having more than one Genesis 9 figure loaded in once scene that i had to make multiple files just to make the scene!
That is probably the 8K textures rather than the extra level of SubD in the mesh, which can be adjusted for with a lower Render division level.
G9's 8K normals though are in most cases a single standard set of files that will be loaded only once, regardless of the number of characters using them.
That said, for some reason, those files are in JPG format, which does not save any VRAM but does degrade their quality. I have a preset I made to swap in a 4K PNG version (I can't put the quality back that the JPG compression lost, but I can signficantly reduce the amount of VRAM they're using with minimal further quality loss)
As Richard already said, Genesis 9 isn't really that much heavier compared with G8 if you aren't using the 8K textures some characters have and I'd say the higher poly density in the base mesh is actually a good thing without making it that much heavier. And yes, the issue with G9 and breast graphs, iirc, it's due to some rigid weight maps or something like that the G9 has, I assume due to the unisex gimmick. Personally, my main gripes about G9 are the nipples/navel, they really shouldn't have made them so dependent on HD morphs while also keeping the HD tool locked away from users, and how the lips are no longer a separate surface. As I said, I make adult content, so making the nipples a HD gimmick means I can't really have figures interacting with them. I know there are some nipples/areolas graphs out there and I still need to test them to see if they don't have the same issues as the breast graphs from that popular creator we know about. If they actually work then, yeah, I might start using G9. The lips thing is annoying and I think there are some LIE products to deal with that, I don't like that much relying on LIE but whatever, it's not a deal breaker for me, just something I consider annoying. Lips are very often shaded differently so they really should have kept it as a separate surface.
Just in the process of updating to the newest versions (4.5). I really like Diffeo, as it is a great bridge. Still have to go through all the features, as I want to use morphs and HD for close-ups.
I want to make a quite realistic picture story and here I need a lot of realistic characters and clothes. Some of them with an historic touch. So, loading character presets is definitely something I will use.