Dear Daz ... About that ToS thingummy ...
COMIXIANT
Posts: 260
Today, I wanted to post my latest prototype (an ample-breasted 40-something) in order to gather opinion on perceived cup-size.
But I can't. I can't post nudity in the store, because she's not finished yet. I can't post nudity in the gallery, because there's a "No Nudity" rule in place. And wow, I can't even post nudity on the forums, because despite the forums belonging to Daz (who's business revolves around digital characters), there's a "No Nudity" rule in place here as well.
It's a bit like selling you a tube of Rowntree's Fruit Pastilles, and expecting you not to chew them!
Since I'm not allowed to post nudity, I've attached a cropped image in protest to ask the question ...
"What cup size do you perceive her to be?"
She looks a bit tired in this one, but so would you if you'd been prodded in the viewport all day!
She's actually very hot (amazing body on her), but of course I cannot show you due to the ToS.
Click Image for Better Texture Detail:
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Comments
She looks youthful for a 40-something. Is she a G9 character? Find her a swimsuit.
Hallelujah!
Disciple
If the goal is to show the shape of a character, you can do so with a screenshot taken in 'Smooth Shaded' mode.
Alternative: A clay render like the one I used here to illustrate my 'G8F Hand Bra' freebie thread in the freestuff forum.:
And no identifiable local details on the overall chest shape. That may well avoid bringing fire & brimstone down upon your head.
Regards,
Richard
I have a swimsuit, a nice one-piece that I'm sure she'd look great in. But swimsuits and rendering in clay, are beside the point.
I'm basically just using the situation to demonstrate how needlessly restricting it is. I don't understand why they have the restriction at all, because surely they could implement the same sort of system they have in the store, on the forums as well. Since it's allowed in the store, then fact is nudity is allowed on Daz, isn't it, so what on earth is the point in not allowing that same policy on the forum as well?
I get why they don't allow porn on here, and that makes sense. But there's a massive difference between porn, and a render that demonstrates a product in a tasteful manner. It all just seems a bit odd when you consider that there are close-up renders of spread genitalia in the store, yet we can't post a simple nude on the forum. It all just seems a bit odd, needlessly restrictive, and personally I just don't see the logic (or point) behind it.
Yes, she's based on Genesis 9. She's the third of four Genesis 9 characters that I intend to finish-up and release. The first two (Ballet Girl and Special Girl) are both designed to be around 20 years old. This one (and the next one), are both designed to be around 40 years old, so I was surprised to see her referred to as youthful.
here is a diagram that shows breast sizes..interesting that it is from DAZ ...
Your model should have B or C.
DAZ's playground, Daz's rules.
Regards,
Richard
There was no nudity in the store either until recentlty (late 2024 or early 2025 IIRC) when they added a filter there so you could hide NSFW pics.
There are no filters for that in the gallery and forums, which is why the rules are more strict.
My first point is that the store and the forums run on entirely different software so adding features is complicated. Second point is that when people go through the store, they do it briefly. To see a product that shows anatomy you have to click on the product and look at the thumbnails in the product description. In the forums, if you are stuck staring at nudity on the page even if you want to answer an innoculous product question. Next, in a store, differentation is good since people who are purchasing an outfit for a child fairy aren't looking for nipple rings for the most part. In the forum, we are trying to foster community so a certain restraint is required so that everyone can participate.
Just to be clear, I'm not planning to break the ToS, never have and never will (well not intentionally anyway).
I understand why they cannot allow nudity due to the lack of a filter, but my point is that it seems weird that they don't add one to the forum (and yes, the gallery too). When I first started posting on here my posts always had to be pre-approved.
So, for example, why not have a system in place so that when you add an image to a post (an image containing nudity), you simply tick a box to indicate that the post contains nudity. That way, whether on the forum or in the gallery, the post never goes live in the first place unless it's been approved. In other words, any submission containing a nudity tag, is automatically held by the system until (and unless) approved by a moderator.
I thought it took Daz quite a while to realise that not allowing nudity in a store that specialises in selling characters, is a problem. And I suppose they will take a while longer before they realise they're driving customers to competing forums.where they have a more relaxed attitude. To be homest, I personally think that (eventually) they will allow it, just as they do in the store. The only thing that owrries me is that since it's eventually going to become inevitable, why continue on the current path.
I don't mean that to be rude. And as Richard rightly said, it's Daz's playground and Daz's rules. Sure, but you know what I mean. The forums (and galleries) of a company that specialise in selling digital characters, must surely be the last place on earth you would expect to see such a policy against nudity. It just doesn't make sense and must surely be costing them a lot of money in an indirect way.
Thanks fot the chart, daveso, and believe it or not I stumbled upon that very same chart myself this morning! In the bra demonstration I'd say she's a an F-Cup, but in the stripey top demonstration I'd say she's more like an E-Cup, so I'm still none the wiser. It would have been cool to have women chime-in and decisively say what cup-size she is. I specifically wanted to get the cup-size right on the two 40-somethings so that I could specify it in the product descriptions. That said, Ballet Girl and Special Girl were easy enough to classify with that chart, with Ballet Girl being a B-Cup, and Special Girl being a C-Cup.
I must say I don't quite understand the specific problem. If all you wanted to gauge was people's idea of the cup size, then why not just render her in a bra? Why would her chest have to be nude for that?
I do feel that this discrepancy between rules of shop promos and rules of forum / gallery posts is a bit weird.
Speaking up in favor of the current forum rules, as they promote inclusivity. Not everyone wants to see it, and people shouldn't have to have NSFW content shoved in their face as a condition to participate in community, if for whatever reason they don't wish to have NSFW content shoved in their face.
And also because it's a lot simpler than trying to do a "fine under these circumstance, but not these circumstances" rule, which would result in endless debate and a lot of extra work for the mods, I should think.
(edit for clarity)
From the OP: "Today, I wanted to post my latest prototype (an ample-breasted 40-something) in order to gather opinion on perceived cup-size."
Maybe I don't understand the issue, but why wouldn't an image without texture suffice? Cup size is basically a shape; and I don't think there's anything keeping you from showing a gray image of just the shape.
@tsroemi
I could do that, but I'm intentionally not doing so. Instead I'm just using the situation to make a valid and friendly point. And exactly, it's the discrepancy between the store and the forums/galleries that make it all the more baffling, since all are served from the same company on the same website.
@SilverGirl
I would argue that it's the opposite of inclusive. Inclusivity means nudity for those who are ok with nudity, and absence of nudity for those who are not. At the moment, it's not inclusive, because it only caters to those who are not ok with nudity (which considering Daz's line of business, is especially baffling).
I'm not sure why you think that you would be subjected to nudity anyway. The system I suggested is double fail-safe, because any image containing nudity has first of all needed to pass moderation, and secondly, would still not be visible to you unless you specifically click on a censored image to uncensor it (just like in the store).
So considering both of those things, I don't understand why you think you would have nudity forced upon you.
@3DSaga
Sorry, it appears we crossposted, but my reply to that is basically the same as for tsroemi. I thought about postworking the nipples and genital crease out, but I still don't think it would be allowed to pass. I didn't want to chance it. And frankly I think it would look ridiculous anyway.
You're asking for new forum features and requesting forum policy changes. Well, ok. If it happens, fine. If not, also fine. Honestly, though, I think you're more than capable of deciding on breast size. And we all get to see all the naked Daz people we want - Every Daz figure loads in birthday suit unless saved out to include clothing. So, not really seeing the urgency.
Still this leaves the problem of the filter. You could have the gallery and forum have adult only sections which has growing implications for credit card companies and might simply be something that Daz employees don't want to do (someone is going to have to wade through a lot of unpleasant images to decide to decide what is acceptable). Next, the gallery would look fairly different with either a bunch of blank spots for those people who don't want to see the explicit content or there will be that dreaded "red light" district. The forum is a bigger problem; as I said, you don't want a forum where individuals can break threads with their content, create a patchwork with pieces missing because of objectionable content, or you can have the red light district which will cause frustrations since the bulk of forum users won't visit it. Many of the users use DS for their jobs so there is an incentive to keep it work safe.
Finally, I believe a lot of us don't see the value of seeing an embarrassing image to answer your question. It is like visiting your doctor for an exam, stripping naked and sitting on the exam table, and then hearing the doctor say that this was unnecessary since I am only examining the cut on your ear.
@nemesis10, seems you've given this a lot of thought. Impressive and agree.
Product images have a team of people to check them, flag them if necessary and sign them off, with a few products per day to check, a time window of days or weeks between submission and going live, and some *mostly* professional vendors who'll re-render promos they're told are too racy (although they may grumble about it).
The entire forums have a gaggle of moderators who have to herd some screaming babies who'll throw a tantrum if their images aren't approved within five nanoseconds.
*Obviously* it's more feasible to have looser rules for the store front than the forum.
Also, as others have said, there is a near-complete lack of compatibility between the store and the community. There's lots of integration I would love to happen, but they're on different software and it's just not going to.
It is just I have been here since the beginning and this gets rehashed over and over. Granted, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay area and I don't know anyone who hasn't seen a nude person on the street as a child. I remember, in grad school, going on a trip with some other students back to San Francisco. We were driving through the Tenderloin and a very sheltered math grad student was startled by the x-rated businesses and asked if there were naked people in there. I told him that naked was the starting level in those business!
San Francisco is much tamer these days than it was in the '70s and '80s, but I guess it's still shocking for some people.
grey or a stone shader with nipples dialed out
I feel I missed out! Thanks for the background. And cheers to your well-articulated posts.
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We've been begging for ages for decent search functionality in the store itself (among other useful things that would increase sales) and haven't gotten it.
...but you think they're going to institute a whole lot of new functionality/complexity in the forums? And you're volunteering the mods for a bunch of extra work?
Just so you (and a few others) can post nudes? When (as this entire thread has proven) it's generally speaking not even necessary? (As opposed to product images in the store, where you deserve to see the full texture of a product before you buy it.)
I fail to see where your system is likely to happen.
So, realistically, yes, if they change the rules to be all "okay, well, nudes now," then people will be excluded if NSFW content isn't viable for them, because they can't trust that links they click to read forums will be safe.
The nudes-preferred people are not being excluded. You can still participate. Just put some covering on your character before sending them out in public. Y'know, like most folk do in real life.
Your proposed system is a simple fail-safe system: if someone fails to check the box, the picture will be shown to anyone else until either someone report it or a moderator views it.
A double fail-safe system would require any message with a picture to be pre-approved.
@Torquinox
Of course, I'm more than capable. But as I said, the whole point of me starting this thread, was to use the situation to highlight just how restricting it is, but to do it in a friendly way. That's the reason I haven't edited the nipples or genital crease out, nor have I rendered her in clay. I have no intention of doing that, because I shouldn't need to. I'd rather not post it than do such ridiculous things.
@nemesis10
The system suggested would not allow for such a situation as that. The system is a very clean, easy to implement one, that would work extremely well!
@MattCastle
To be honest, I doubt it's very hard at all. I mean, how hard can it be to add a "Nudity" checkbox next to the "Add Image" button? It would probably take ten lines of code at most. The term NVIATWAS is really quite amusing when you think about it, cause Daz create those naked Vickies, yet won't allow them (naked) on here!
@WendyLuvsCatz
No way I'm doing that. I point-blank refuse to cast a "Wicked Witch of Narnia" spell on my characters!
I don't see why they should be turned to stone, just to appease the ToS.
@SilverGirl
You sound a bt defensive, but in fact there is nothing unusual about expecting nudity to be allowed on the Daz forum, so no, I don't agree that it would only be for the benefit of me and a few others. Sooner or later, pretty much everyone would make use of it. Of course I could (and from the looks of it will have to) decide on the cup size myself. It's no biggie, I just thought it would be nice to have actual womens' opinions on her cup size so that I could put the right one in the product desctiption. So it doesn't matter in the slightest in real terms, It's just that within a split-second of having the idea, I was brought back down to earth due to the ridiculously restrictive ToS they have on here.
QUOTE:
"The nudes-preferred people are not being excluded. You can still participate. Just put some covering on your character before sending them out in public. Y'know, like most folk do in real life."
That's quite a funny comment, cause well, they would no longer be nude then, would they?
@Elor
Fact is, having a nudity checkbox is no less safe than what we have now. Regardless of the fact there is a no nudity policy in place, there is nothing to stop an opportunist posting a nude. it would be zapped as soon as a moderator sees it, but the point I am trying to make is that no unsuitable images would get past the moderators on here either way. I don't like the policy they have in place on here, but nevertheless I will always respect whatever they have in place. I even asked about an image before posting a few months back, just to be sure, and just as well I did because it would not have been allowed.
Regards extra workload. I did consider the moderator,, but surely the only difference is that posts that are awaiting approval are read in private instead of being read in public. Either way, they'll be read by the moderator, so I don't see how it would create extra workload. Surely, if a post is read in private before being approved, then that post doesn't need to be read in public as well, so in real terms, where's the extra workload?
Realistically, most of us are going to hide the nudes in your system and expect to also have the ability to hide the complete post to since it is a topic and person which we are not interested in. Thus in your system, threads will be full of holes and broken conversations unless you are going to be hypocritical and not allow explicit non TOS conversations the way you want explicit non TOS images allowed. I am still not seeing how you get over the difficulty of the unpopular nature of your request. Pretty much every private venue from forums to supermarkets retain the right to say "put your clothes on" or as Americans say "no shoes, no shirt, no service". Disregarding the consequences of any slip up of your system (What! The forum software is foolproof and would never flash someone especially minors and invoke criminal and financial penalties!), you are still dancing around the facts that a) your figure has no feelings or rights, b) as a guest here, you have no right to right to ignore the host's rules, and most importantly, there is no groundswell to want to see the pubic area of a character when I am not trying to buy adult wears. I am not seeing how this is either appealing or useful. It just seems gratuitous and exhibitionist.
Much easier to start posting on DA, AU, or similar site. Plenty of audience for nude 3D figures with few restrictions.
@nemesis1
The fact that the vast majority of images on the web that make use of Daz characters, are adult in nature, suggests that you speak for the minority, not the majority.
You're also suggesting that I wanted to post the character nude, just for the sake of it. But why? If what I've written multiple times over isn't clear enough by now, then you're out of luck because I won't be repeating it a third time. This is a forum belonging to the largest name in the business when it comes to digital characters. Those digital characters come nude, just as the human equivalent does (and neither should be offensive to anyone). Again, there's a massive difference between nudity and pornography, and I'm just trying to get them to consider a policy change to allow the former, not the latter.
Please also bear in mind that the year at the time of writing this post, is 2025, not 1925.
@Torquinox
Sure, but I hope to sell the characters on here, not there.
No worries! Several well-established and top Daz PAs have a presence on DA. Your prospective audience is there. It's a smart move to camp there. At the very least, it doesn't hurt.
We're in luck then, because sales take place in the store, not the forum, and nudity is allowed in the product's store page. Posting a proposed product in the forum is pointless, as you must know approval isn't based on public reaction. Are you going through the process of becoming a PA here? Do you sell on other sites? I ask because I would like to see what you're offering for sale.