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You have very specifically ascribed it to G9's mesh. You haven't said that "I don't like the bend correctives" or "I don't like the weight mapping", you are on record that you believe it is to do with edge flow and topology:
(Original post link)
I have studied G9's mesh closely based off of your assertions, and I cannot see that there are any cases around the traditionally tricky joint bends where the edge flow cuts across them in an unsuitable direction or lacks the mesh definition to bend smoothly. The least ideal example I can see is under the buttock, where the curve of the shape isn't neatly followed by an edge it can fold on; however, this is hardly a dire case, as the leg can only bend back so far.
I have other reasons I'm not thrilled by the mesh, but if you are saying this is the root of the problem, you will need to explain how and why. I am frequently very critical of other people's mesh (indeed, I have entirely re-topoed some products because I didn't like how they were done), but even I can't see anything significant to criticise as far as edge loops being in the wrong places.
I haven't spent a lot of time with G9 yet, so I loaded up base G9 feminine and did a couple bends. I think I've established over time that I'm less discerning than a lot of other users, but these all seem like pretty appropriate and realistic bends to me.
Yeah, I am not really seeing the issues people are speaking of, in general. Unless the bend controls are turned off, etc.
Alright, you are happy with G9.
Good for you.
My conclusion:
To me G9 female is super frustrating for the above listed reasons.
Upcoming content will of course be focusing on G9.
High quality hair will be only available for G9
I have collected everything I need for G8.
Unless there will be some unique high quality environments or software updates, I will spend less time here.
EDIT 07.19.2025:
(don't want to distract from present discussions)
It's done.
I've deleted all my G9 content.
G9 base, characters, materials, anatomy, clothes, hair, just everything.
What a huge waste of money. But better now than later, by spending a lot of more money in hopening, something useful for me will come along.
No, G9 is dead for me, and I shall be damned if I'll ever purchase a single piece of content for G9.
Don't be sad, I'm currently working on another one
...
You've always been free not to use G9, nobody's trying to force you. I still overwhelmingly use G8 myself, only occasionally dabbling with G9. You just keep bringing up things that YOU don't like about it, that you don't get very specific about and don't substantiate,as if they are objective problems. To restate one of @Matt_Castle's points, what is your proposed solution to any of those issues, and what do you reasonably expect to happen?
The solution is simple, don't force vendors to make new characters exclusively for G9, allow them the freedom to choose if they want to release for G9, G8 or both. Until then, I'll keep buying my new characters at Renderosity where the overwhelming majority of new characters are still being release for G8.
No one, as far as I know, is forced to make Genesis 9 content, except by what sells and whether the extra sales from supporting both justify the time taken.
You are imagining a non-existent consipracy. There is no such rule, and vendors do have such freedom.
I presume that Daz would advise vendors that products should support G9, and I imagine a new vendor might struggle to get in by submitting a portfolio based solely on G8 content, but that is not the same as forbidding it.
The reason vendors on Daz aren't making much new G8 only content is, quite simply, that most of them don't want to. It's not where the market is any more, and you're competing with huge existing libraries and store catalogues.
Hey! Character maker here. Daz has no influence at all over which generation i make my characters on. They're happy to continue selling G8 content. That said, once i got G9, theres very little to convince me to go back to G8. As a character maker-- there's no contest. G9 is a dream to work on relatively.
We (vendors) are not forced to make characters exclusively for G9, if we wanted we could release new characters for G3 or even V4 ... I know there are people out there that still want to stick to G8 but selling whise, they are now a minority. Unfortunately G8 and G9 are very different so there's no easy way to create characters that support both versions, so we have to decide where we put our work into ...
Easy.. a product that allows me to transfer the look (form and textrues) of a G9 HD figure to a G8 figure, even if I lose the HD part when doing it. That's all I want to make G9 a product I would pay money for.
It's not a product for Daz Studio but @kaincypher84 recently shared a method to do the textures transfert using Blender:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/9226791/#Comment_9226791
I doubt such a product will ever exist, because there is no way to make it happen in a way it'll work with every character. You would end up with a half baked solution that may work to some degree on one character and not really on another, which would make people angry and lead to refunds and frustration. No vendor would try to sell such a product because of the trouble it would lead to. All the individual stuff that's happening hidden in the background of every G9 character is almost impossible to transfer to G8, so you would not only loose the HD morphs, you would also loose all JCM/CBS (the bend corrections) because the rigging and bones are different ... same counts for UVs and mats.
There exist a way to convert the textures between every generation (V4, G1, G2, G3, G8, G9) in every direction you want with blender, but it's also no simple one click solution and the result is also not 100% perfect.
There's this to use G9 textures on G8 females : https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-uvs-for-genesis-8-and-81-female
Thanks fo the link to that product for using G9 textures on G8 females. That's worth trying; it may breathe new life into some of my G8s.
It most definitely will! My main characters are G8.1F, and I switched their skins to G9 textures using that product. I had to use the normals from one G9 and the skin from another in both cases because the skins I liked looked too mature when I put them on my G8.1s, but it worked great, and I'm very happy with the results.
It's theoretically on my to-do list. (Although if I'm honest, that still leaves it in a lot of doubt).
I have a lot of experience with converting assets between base figures; the main problem is my limited scripting knowledge, so I'm having to try to explain the processes to a coder to try to automate my methods.
In relation to what you said before about "even if I lose the HD part when doing it", every previous transfer product has been able to take an HD morph as an input. Some can even transfer the HD data, should you be a vendor with access to the HD functionality.
This theory that Daz want to stop users from transferring stuff to instead make them buy it is prevalent and persistent, but holds little water.
There's really not that many products that get redone each generation; a few basic morph packs, some utility stuff like Fit Control, the anatomical elements, etc, but things like hair, clothes, characters, etc and the like are usually fresh.
Overall Daz don't really want people thinking "Oh, that's a really nice shirt, shame I can't use it for the figure I want, so I won't buy it", or refusing to move to a new generation because there's not enough content to make it usable yet.
I would say that as a general thing, Daz probably love converter products; when they don't exist, I would say it's more likely because of technical limitations or difficulties rather than reluctance.
In my experience the INPUT isn't the problem, but usually the EXPORT (aka the result of the process) usually leaves a lot to desire. Might be, because I'm no vendor and don't have that "HD functionality".
Poses... many of those come as identical poses with new names for new generations. Hair? So many look-alike products within a generation, no wonder there are tons of re-do's for the next generation and with clothes it's even more obvious.. IMHO there are quite a few vendors who really depend on incompatible new generations, to re-do their standard designs again and again and again...
Well, at least in my case they fail the other way around, as I have seen quite a few products already, when my thinking was "My, what a nice figure/hair/piece of clothing.. too bad it doesn't work with my preferred generation (or: "that I can't be sure to will work with my preferred generation" in case of some clothing items)
Whatever the reason, it keeps people like me from buying G9 products. I guess we're too few to have a big enough impact on the sales, though. And in the end it leaves me with more money to spend elsewhere or for other hobbies, so *shrug*
It's not. Outside of some fantasy and sci-fi morphs that do genuinely need the extra mesh density for horns or robot inlays or whatever, and maybe people with really heavy wrinkles, removing the HD from a morph usually doesn't make much difference.
It is, in many respects, a marketing gimmick that makes it sound like the character is better/higher quality. (I certainly know I've heard some vendors say that they really would rather not work with HD but are forced to because getting to put "HD" on the product name makes a big difference to sales).
Pose converters are usually the very first conversion tools to exist for a generation after the basic auto-fit clones. They also often quickly exist as freebies as well as paid products.
Are they 100% perfect for the new generation? No, but poses usually need fine-tuning on anything but the exact shape they were made for.
No pose maker is getting away with relying on users not being able to convert poses to the new generation; maybe getting away with users *forgetting* they have those poses, but
Honestly, the number of times I find "I want this hair style, just slightly more volume" or "I need jeans with a just slightly lower waist" or "damn it, it's obvious they're wearing the same t-shirt" or such means that I often deliberately buy similar hair and clothes.
Unless a vendor is actually reusing or reworking the same mesh, I'm not planning to hold it against them if they've made a similar product in the past.
Uh.... other way around? What you've said is basically a rewording of what I said.
If the answer genuinely is that they found it impossible to create something of the quality they wanted, then you'd just be complaining about the output of that converter if it had been sold to you.
Speaking as someone who has more experience than many when it comes to converting assets between bases, I can assure you that it is a decidedly non-trivial problem, particularly as there is little standardisation in how vendors set up products.
In the end, I seem to be unable to transport my "problem" with G9 to you - either because me being unable to define it in words properly or You being able to understand it - but it doesn't really matters. The result stays the same: I do way less shopping here in DAZland, even though there are things that would interest me, if they weren't G9 exclusively (or could be used with G8 without having to jump to tons of hoops or the danger of not being fully functional). In some cases the price is important, too, as I might (!) be willing to spend $ 1.99 to buy something that would take me hours to make it useable on G8, but surely not much more.
End of discussion for me here
Yay! You had some extra morphs with Damira that aren't usually included with characters, like abs and smile. I'm really grateful for those and hope you keep including stuff like that.
As an example of not being able to please everyone, I've converted G8s to G9, but never G9s to G8.
Damira G9 is fabulous and I'm happy to know you're working on another character!
Of course, I'm not forced.
I've got all the G8 content I need.
So pretty much done with the marketplace.
BTW:
What are the significant G9 advantages of G8 again?
Why has there been a need for G9? I just can't see any reason.
You say that as if many, many people haven't explained it to you already. You can find the argument unpersuasive, but you don't get to act like nobody is making the argument.
I am just not convinced. Everything, that as been introduced with G9, is possible with G8 as well. So why again, please?
8k texture - check
better expressions G8.1 started it. - check
(BTW: Standard expressions doesn't really work on heavy customized characters anyway)
Unisex, for better vendors' support. Give a male base morph to G8F - check
Renaming groups for industrial standards - just call it G8.2 - well kinda check
So, what do we need G9 for?
(Just on a side note:
To answer the elephant in the room, why I am so upset with the G9 release:
Improvements on assets are focussing on G9 and cut me off from benefitting from those.
I see the DAZ marketplace sailing away without me, being potentially left with outdated content.
Most annoying example is Strand base dforce Hair for G9 only, unsuable with previous G8.)
Transfer your G8 shape to G9 (manually*). Add any native G9 content to the G9. Hide the G9 but not the G9 content you added. Render your G8 with the G9 content.
I do it all the time in both directions. I personally prefer G9, but I use that technique all in the time all manner of directions.
Only a chore when first setting up. I spent time setting up scene subsets for conversions between various bases. Now I can use those with a quick export and morph import whenever I change a shape or pose. Takes me 30 seconds. This post took me a few minutes to write.
8K texture - yes, theoretically possible on any base, but there is an advantage in setting that as a precedent from the start of the generation.
Better expressions - actually, quite aside from the thing where they by default disabled G8.0 expressions on G8.1, this had a lot of compatibility issues.
I *presume* they took the decision to hide the G8.0 face sliders to avoid the need for vendors to try to support two sets of face expressions. But what you ended up with was a load of G8.0 controllers that ended up non-functional, and even if you reenabled them G8.1 characters had no correctives for the G8.0 expressions, and G8.0 characters had no correctives for the G8.1 expressions. A blank slate had advantages.
Unisex - It's actually pretty easy to set a male morph on G8F (I use it quite a lot for making teen boys, as I find it's generally easier to masculinise G8F teen morphs than get G8M ones to match well with them), but clothing fits are going to be mediocre to poor because it wasn't set as a precedent from the start of the generation, and existing clothes will not have support for it.
Renaming groups for industrial standards - the level of change they did absolutely cannot be addressed by "just make a 8.2". In renaming all the bones and controls, and altering the skeletal heirarchy, you'd break compatibility with all existing rigging for character morphs and their correctives, and all clothing. All you might retain is compatibility with is G8 UVs.
What did we need G8 for? At its core, it was a reposed G3.
It did way less than G9 was trying to overhaul.
Actually, a large number of these strand based hairs use a standalone scalp and are not restricted to being generated from the G9 geometry.
Even the ones that are generated from the G9 geometry, you can actually work around most of those by turning G9 into a bodysuit that can be fitted to G8F.
Worse than many people think, actually.
The change in base pose means that all the correctives for the shoulders and thighs have changed, both in shape and name, so clothes lose those when converted, and if you just use a scene ID override, the difference in base silhouette between the clothing and figure causes issues with auto-follow.
I have an active ticket on a product where it's been created with a non-matching base pose (it is unfitted here, this is the base pose for both):
While fitting it causes the skeleton to follow, it causes mucked up rigging in the hands:
And on heavier morphs, auto-following is wildly off, because it's trying to copy morphs from the wrong part of the figure - here's a comparison between the actual product (left) and my fixed version (right) on Astaroth:
(To be clear, although this is a G9 product - or, more specifically, a G9 version within a product - this is not a G9 specific issue, this is a "the clothes weren't made in this base pose issue", which is what comes up when you try to scene ID G3 clothes onto G8).
Fortunately, I'm already a weirdo who cares about this stuff and has a suite of custom scripts for carrying out this conversion between G3 and G8, so could apply it to fix this G9 product, but it *does* come up as an issue.