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Refund if a product's encryption status is changed +30 days later?

mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,535
edited January 2016 in The Commons

I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere, but I've honestly burned out reading all the threads on encryption. This is a new thing that has raised a lot of ire, so I'm not suprised that there's more speculation than information. But I have a few serious questions and would like answers from Daz or the moderators (and "I don't know" is a perfectly valid answer).

  1. If I buy a product that is encrypted and didn't notice it at the time, is it eligible for a refund (as per the 30-day money-back terms now in place)?
  2. What if the product's encryption status changes after 30 days? Is that possible? Likely?
  3. In this case (where the item wasn't encrypted when I bought it, but suddenly was updated to an encrypted version more than a month later), would I be able to get a refund, even though it's been more than 30 days?

I hope that's clear. And again, if someone else has addressed this elsewhere, I aplogize.

Mike

Post edited by mmitchell_houston on

Comments

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,420

    Question 1 is simple: the moneyback guarantee applies whatever the reason you have to return the product. So encryption status changing would be a valid reason to get a refund.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817

    The answer for question #1 is easy, the 30 day guarantee applies for any reason including no reason at all.

     

    For example, the following are acceptable reasons for us to give you your money back on a product:

    1. The product is encrypted and you don't want any encrypted products
    2. The product over utilizes the color blue
    3. The product's name has an odd number of vowles.
    4. The product's name has an even number of vowles.
    5. The product's file size is too large
    6. The product's file size ends in a 7
    7. I bought the product on a Tuesday and I don't want any products purchased on a Tuesday.
    8. I don't like the product.
    9. I like the product too much.

    As to the other two questions I don't have any answers because I don't think we have any plans around that. We have more adequately planned for a godzilla attack on Daz HQ than those other two questions.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 110,823

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

  • NathNath Posts: 3,021
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 938
    DAZ_Rawb said:
     

    As to the other two questions I don't have any answers because I don't think we have any plans around that. We have more adequately planned for a godzilla attack on Daz HQ than those other two questions.

    Plans for Godzilla attack on Daz HQ:

    1. Scream
    2. Run
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    diogenese19348 said:
    DAZ_Rawb said:
     

    As to the other two questions I don't have any answers because I don't think we have any plans around that. We have more adequately planned for a godzilla attack on Daz HQ than those other two questions.

    Plans for Godzilla attack on Daz HQ:

    1. Scream
    2. Run

    That was the old plan. The new plan is:

    1. Scream

    2. Launch huge sale

    3. Release script to decrypt everything that was encrypted.

    4. Run.

  • fastbike1fastbike1 Posts: 4,082

    @DAZ_Rawb

    Nice to see you're maintaining a sense of humor in what must be trying times for you. My salute!

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 110,823
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

  • AtiAti Posts: 9,201

    There you go. The solution to all the encryption problems. Now all that's required is a Godzilla. laugh

  • frogimusfrogimus Posts: 200

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    Ati said:

    There you go. The solution to all the encryption problems. Now all that's required is a Godzilla. laugh

    Daz Productions, Inc. would like to note that this policy does not extend to attacks from Mothra.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    acanthis said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

    "Owners or buyers of Gianni 7 or his bundles get an additional 75% OFF* these new Encrypted Daz Connect releases" Quoted straight from yesterday morning's promotional email, so whether the site had it right at the time they were put in the poster's cart or not, it was in fact the case that the items in question were intended to be encrypted Connect releases.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 110,823
    acanthis said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

    And as I said elsewhere, I was not suggesting that buyers should have been aware of the issue - just that the product had already been stated to be encrypted so the change was fixing a mistake, not pullng a fast one.

  • NathNath Posts: 3,021
    Richard Haseltine said:
    acanthis said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

    And as I said elsewhere, I was not suggesting that buyers should have been aware of the issue - just that the product had already been stated to be encrypted so the change was fixing a mistake, not pullng a fast one.

    And, disconcerting as it was to see the download I had expected almost evaporate before my eyes, I'm willing to believe you on the fixing a mistake on this one. But all in all I'd still say that expecting buyers to read a promo for another product and deducing that the info there trumps the info on the product's own page is a bit much... It'll certainly make me very, very wary. Although on the plus side, the return was handled quickly, which is good to know, as it'd be too much to expect this to be the last time anyone's caught out in the middle of an error correction.

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,535
    frogimus said:

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,888
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    acanthis said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

    And as I said elsewhere, I was not suggesting that buyers should have been aware of the issue - just that the product had already been stated to be encrypted so the change was fixing a mistake, not pullng a fast one.

    And, disconcerting as it was to see the download I had expected almost evaporate before my eyes, I'm willing to believe you on the fixing a mistake on this one. But all in all I'd still say that expecting buyers to read a promo for another product and deducing that the info there trumps the info on the product's own page is a bit much... It'll certainly make me very, very wary. Although on the plus side, the return was handled quickly, which is good to know, as it'd be too much to expect this to be the last time anyone's caught out in the middle of an error correction.

    Again, as Richard stated, no one was expecting people to read the promo to know.  The assumption was made that Daz willy-nilly chose to change it.  This was not the case.  They corrected the product page to be as described in the ad.

  • NathNath Posts: 3,021
    Cris Palomino said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    acanthis said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

    And as I said elsewhere, I was not suggesting that buyers should have been aware of the issue - just that the product had already been stated to be encrypted so the change was fixing a mistake, not pullng a fast one.

    And, disconcerting as it was to see the download I had expected almost evaporate before my eyes, I'm willing to believe you on the fixing a mistake on this one. But all in all I'd still say that expecting buyers to read a promo for another product and deducing that the info there trumps the info on the product's own page is a bit much... It'll certainly make me very, very wary. Although on the plus side, the return was handled quickly, which is good to know, as it'd be too much to expect this to be the last time anyone's caught out in the middle of an error correction.

    Again, as Richard stated, no one was expecting people to read the promo to know.  The assumption was made that Daz willy-nilly chose to change it.  This was not the case.  They corrected the product page to be as described in the ad.

    Some may have made that assumption. As I stated myself, this was clearly in hindsight an error. At the time it wasn't all that obvious, but *shrug* - as long as the aftermath is handled correctly, I can live with errors. "Never attribute to malice... " and all that. It'll just help to make me even less eager to buy.

  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    edited January 2016
    Richard Haseltine said:
    acanthis said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Nath said:
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Do remember that the only items that have changed to encrypted were items that were intended to be, and were advertised as being on the promo pages, encrypted. Nothing that was released as unencrypted without comment has been changed, nor would I expect it to be changed though I'm not in a position to say that for absolutely certain (my last spy in the marketing department was morphed into a frog and fed to Buddles).

    Umm yeah... when I bought Detective Poses and Props it was a regular item, even though it was in a bundle with two encrypted items. It changed over to Encrypted in the few minutes between me buying and going to download it (and yeah, I put in a refund request). Likely enough it was never meant to go out unencrypted, but there was nothing on the product page to indicate that when I put it in my cart, or I wouldn't have bothered. So, you may need better frogs (or bribe Buddles).

    There was nothing on the product page, no, but there was a section on the main Gianni 7 promo page stating that they were encrypted items 75% off with purchase of Gianni 7.

    So what? The OP's issue was with the Detective Poses and Props product, not with Gianni 7. Why would I look at the promo for Gianni 7 if all I was interested in was, on the face of it, a nice bundle of detective-themed products? This was covered on another thread, and it's not an answer to say that customers should have read the promo for a product other than the one they were interested in buying. Sorry, but it's not.

    And as I said elsewhere, I was not suggesting that buyers should have been aware of the issue - just that the product had already been stated to be encrypted so the change was fixing a mistake, not pullng a fast one.

    Yes, OK. Anyway, as a "mistake" it doesn't say a lot for the process that brings a product into the store front. Doesn't anybody check the thing before it goes live?

    I will say, though, that bundle store pages should clearly state when one or all of the constituent parts are "Encrypted DAZ Connect Only" - then this will never should not happen again.

     

    [Edited to remove speculation]

    Post edited by acanthis on
  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 12,888
    edited January 2016

    Edited to remove; comment no longer needed.

    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • acanthisacanthis Posts: 604
    edited January 2016
    (Mod-edited to remove quote since it's gone now)

    Your post crossed with my edit to remove a statement that could be construed as speculation. Sorry about that.

    Post edited by Cris Palomino on
  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,323
    mmitchell_houston said:
    frogimus said:

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

    As far as I've heard you'll always be able to download unencrypted versions of products you have purchased unencrypted.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,420
    Taozen said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    frogimus said:

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

    As far as I've heard you'll always be able to download unencrypted versions of products you have purchased unencrypted.

    That's definitely not the case for the detective props, the only version available is now the encrypted connect version, even if you purchased it in the small interval where it was available unencrypted.

  • frogimusfrogimus Posts: 200
    mmitchell_houston said:
    frogimus said:

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

    Fair point. I can't imagine a situation where my content and all backups could be lost concurrently.

    If it did possibly occur, it would only be to assets that costed < $5 each.

    To put that clearly, my Daz shopping is under the assumption that anything I buy is expendable and I shop prices accordingly.  I have 2 months remaining on PC+ and will pick up sale items for a dollar or two. After that expires, I see no reason to shop here under the current conditions.

  • mmitchell_houstonmmitchell_houston Posts: 2,535
    frogimus said:
    mmitchell_houston said:

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

    Fair point. I can't imagine a situation where my content and all backups could be lost concurrently.

    If it did possibly occur, it would only be to assets that costed < $5 each.

    To put that clearly, my Daz shopping is under the assumption that anything I buy is expendable and I shop prices accordingly.  I have 2 months remaining on PC+ and will pick up sale items for a dollar or two. After that expires, I see no reason to shop here under the current conditions.

    Unless your stuff is backed up offsite, a house fire, flood or tornado could wipe out everything at once. Faster than you might imagine (and I speak from experience, which is why I use Carbonite to backup my Runtime directory).

    But that's not the point. Many of us will be here in two months (probably for two years, unless things get really bad and everything gets encrypted), so this issue could impact us and our future buying decisions. I just wanted to ask the question I posted because... well, the whole PI Bundle thing got me wonding about potential issues in the future. 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 110,823
    Leana said:
    Taozen said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    frogimus said:

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

    As far as I've heard you'll always be able to download unencrypted versions of products you have purchased unencrypted.

    That's definitely not the case for the detective props, the only version available is now the encrypted connect version, even if you purchased it in the small interval where it was available unencrypted.

    E&OE

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,420
    Richard Haseltine said:
    Leana said:
    Taozen said:
    mmitchell_houston said:
    frogimus said:

    If they change to encryption >30 days after you bought it, that means you have the unencrypted version. Personally, that's all that would matter to me. 

    So...

    1. Your hard drives crash
    2. Mothra ate your backup disks
    3. And you have to redownload all of your content
    4. And now all that's available is the encrypted version. 

    And that doesn't matter to you?

    As far as I've heard you'll always be able to download unencrypted versions of products you have purchased unencrypted.

    That's definitely not the case for the detective props, the only version available is now the encrypted connect version, even if you purchased it in the small interval where it was available unencrypted.

    E&OE

    I agree those were a special case since they were not supposed to be available unencrypted in the first place.

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