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Encryption isn't the real problem with 4.9...

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  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300

    In a thread long ago and now in a galaxy far, far away, Rawb promised a method of allowing for at least some manipulation of Smart Content to make it more personalized. This was apart from shortcuts. He noted it likely would not make it to 4.9 release, which is why I'll probably skip this one for the time being. I think the rationale for having control over content organization has been discussed ad infinitum, and if we take Rawb at his word (don't see why not), we'll have this feature eventually.

    He didn't mention how it would be done, but hopefully they implement more than just simplistic shortcuts. That won't work for me, as I organize by project, not by content type. I may -- and often do -- install assets into project runtimes that are completely removed from the content list, and the C: drive. when I'm done with them. It may be a year, or maybe never, that I'll ever return to using that content. Mere shortcuts means always having the source assets using up space I'd prefer to manage myself.

    We all have different ways of doing this, and different reasons for it. Art is not a systemic constant, and the means of creating it should not be presumed. I don't think D|S has to be hamstung by the misjudgement that one system is suited for everyone. 

  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 929
    DaWaterRat said:
    diogenese19348 said:

    I haven't installed 4.9 yet simply because I am in the middle of a contest that requires a render a day, it's nearing the end and I don't want to DQ over a glitch.  I will install it early February.

    As someone else pointed out, 4.9 is a point release.  Why the I-ray release wasn't 5.0 I don't know, but whatever.

    Since DAZ has now provided for shortcuts in the File Content manager where they put the original files doesn't make any difference - you can have a shortcut to them in your directory structure.  I am saying that from the description since as I said, I haven't downloaded it yet to test that out.  That will also be helpful for unencrypted content, I can not leave all the files where they belong so the DIM can update them correctly, and use the shortcuts for my directory structure.

    They only included that option because people raised a fuss about being able to still use their Content Library with Daz Connect content in the first Beta thread.  If they'd gone with their original plan, Categories and Smart Content would have been the end of it.  Which is why I'm finally buckling down to categorize all my stuff my way, so that when they do manage to slip that particular update past people, I'm not caught flat footed.

    That is why they did it, but the fact of the matter is they did listen.  They didn't just jolly us along and hoped we'd forget.  The rollout of that was with the 4.9 release.  It might have been what held it up.  Not that I think starting to categorize things isn't a good idea.

  • caravellecaravelle Posts: 2,649
    Taozen said:
    caravelle said:

    A popular competitor already started an ad claiming 'DRM free! Don't let DRM products limit your creativity...'. DRM is disputed; that's a fact. I don't know if Daz really does itself and it's vendors a favor with this technology. People are well-briefed today.

    Well if DAZ' encryption works maybe the competitors' vendors will move to DAZ.

    Hehe. ;-D

    But then it should work better than it did in the music industry. They stopped DRM encrypting, but maybe this is something completely different.

     

  • diogenese19348diogenese19348 Posts: 929
    Tobor said:

    In a thread long ago and now in a galaxy far, far away, Rawb promised a method of allowing for at least some manipulation of Smart Content to make it more personalized. This was apart from shortcuts. He noted it likely would not make it to 4.9 release, which is why I'll probably skip this one for the time being. I think the rationale for having control over content organization has been discussed ad infinitum, and if we take Rawb at his word (don't see why not), we'll have this feature eventually.

    He didn't mention how it would be done, but hopefully they implement more than just simplistic shortcuts. That won't work for me, as I organize by project, not by content type. I may -- and often do -- install assets into project runtimes that are completely removed from the content list, and the C: drive. when I'm done with them. It may be a year, or maybe never, that I'll ever return to using that content. Mere shortcuts means always having the source assets using up space I'd prefer to manage myself.

    We all have different ways of doing this, and different reasons for it. Art is not a systemic constant, and the means of creating it should not be presumed. I don't think D|S has to be hamstung by the misjudgement that one system is suited for everyone. 

    Hmmm... I can understand how you can move the loading scripts to another drive, but how were you separating out the textures and the object files?  In the poser setup they would be in textures and geometries under runtime, on the DAZ  side they were sometimes under /data, but often the textures still got tucked under /runtime/textures.

  • hjakehjake Posts: 1,271
    edited January 2016
    j cade said:
    Today it didn't rain, therefore it will never rain again!!!

    It sure would have felt that way if you said that on October 10th, 1903 and you were standing at 18°29'S, 70°18'W, elevation: 65m and hung around for another 173 months.  :-)

     

     

    Post edited by hjake on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,971
    Crescent said:

    Even back in the old days with .exe files, I could at least organize the .exe files themselves.

    You can still do this - just change the Daz Connect folder in the Content Directory Manager. As long as the folders chosen are also DAZ Studio Content directories the content isntalled to other locatiosn will work even with a different Connect install directory set.

  • hjakehjake Posts: 1,271
    f00bar.root_6039d0dd5c said:

    Encryption is a huge problem...

    E.g. it was possible to use clothing clones provided by daz studio to create morphing clones. Now they can prevent such things, meaning we have to buy even more stuff that should be included by default (actually it is kind of included, we can just no use it without changing a few lines of text, which they prevent now by encryting it).

    That would only be a problem if it is end-to-end encryption becasue even the items in the scene are encrypted and therefore no export/import to 3D software like Carrara/Hexagon/Blender.  If only the file is encrypted as a package then you could make export/import to make your own morphs on the product once you load the figure into the scene. You just would not be able to put the morph into the encrypted package, but you inject it into the figure once the figure was loaded.

     

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388

    I agree that encryption isn't the real problem, but I disagree with what the OP says is the real problem.  My biggest concern is not the new store stuff.  Yeah, I do think DAZ is running the risk of becoming too distracted maintaining DAZ studio Store functions and feature.  But that's not the real problem RIGHT NOW.  I'm not even concerned so much about the big encryption scare.

    My concern is the very real, very visible (pun intended) LACK of visual improvements in the UI of all DAZ software.

    So I hear rumors that DAZ is working on it, and I'm thankful for that.  But "rumored to be working on it" isn't a real thing.  To me it won't be real until it starts showing up in beta releases.  I would also put stock in the comments of a DAZ announcement, or even some sort of a real status update from a DAZ developer or company official.  I'm flexible like that.  wink  My point is, "corporate silence" on this matter will only exacerbate my doubt.

    By the way, I will also reject any attempts to embarras me or accuse me of needing to see an eye doctor.  This was done by one or two when I first complained about the same issue in Carrara a couple years ago.  I see my eyedoc every year.  No, the problem is not with me, and it's not with my eye prescription.  The problem lies with DAZ applications not working well with the COMMONLY AVAILABLE modern, high resolution, high definition monitors of today. 

    We have HD content now.  Downgrading my resolution settings devalues ALL of that content, so changing Windows settings is not an acceptable solution.  And we should all just admit that futzing around with resolution settings doesn't really work well anyway; not for graphic art software.

    I sincerely hope that DAZ Studio 4.10 or 5.0, whichever is next, includes REAL improvements to font sizes and the sizes of other controls such as dropdowns, buttons, clickable hotzones, scroll-bars, and so forth.

    I don't just want DAZ to dump a bunch of big icons and large fonts into DAZ Studio or other titles (do that first if it makes good sense, but don't stop there).  Ultimately, it needs to be done right; give the user CONTROL over that stuff, so that we can customize the appearance and readability of all the fine print, help dialogs, dropdowns, scroll bars, button sizes, sliders, and widgets.  I promise I'll be patient if I know it's being worked on, but telling us that it's "Hard to Do" is no longer a good enough answer.  I want to know it's being worked on; ACTIVELY being worked on.  And then I would be happy to help test the UI.

    Companies love to announce their good deeds, like converting to solar energy or acheiving other sustainable engineering goals for factory or office operations, or tooting their horn about how they've improved employee or customer morale about this or that.  Why not announce that DAZ's official stance is to make all software titles easeier to use?  "Visualization improvements for improved visualization!"  This should be a marketing executive's dream; the ad copy almost writes itself, doesn't it?

    All humor aside for a moment, we in the software and IT industry really need get off our high horses and stop contributing to people's frustration.  We need to stop causing people vision strain and frustration.  It wastes our time as businessmen and businesswomen.  And as artists.  It's toxic to the muse and just plain bad for the creative process. 

    We can do better.  We should do better.  The best way to begin is to rethink our habits.  "It's always been good enough in the past" is one of the worst reasons to keep doing the same thing in the future.

    Okay, I'm done.  For now.  angel  Thank you for reading.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,748
    Khory said:

    They know that users who feel they need to organize are more often the ones who contact CS for help finding things or getting products to work properly. I recall several years ago when they human surface shader was first given away with Daz characters. Hundreds of people posted in the forums for months that it did not work. What did all of those people have in common? They had "organized" their content. Things like moving all those messy files like "scripts" and "shaders" out of studio to a nice clean organized folder structure away from the program. Most of those people were experienced users who felt confident they knew what and why to move files around.

    They know new users like smart content because they adopt it and continue to uses studio rather than throw their hands up and wander away. They also tell the company why they like it and what they wish was improved. That improvement is something that Daz has worked on based on user feedback over time. It isn't perfect yet but it is vastly improved and they are playing catchup with thousands of products.

    The custom categories do not move files around at all they simply link to files already in place by daz but allows me an easy way to find my stuff set up in a way that I know works for me.  And I am a new user, I don't like smart content it never worked very well for me and all it did was piss me off.  I don't want to move my main files. I simply want to continue to use my custom created categories in the same way that I use them now.I am still uncertain if this is possible in 4.9 or not.  Some say yes they aren't changed and work fine.  Others say no, its wiped them all out. Still others say that Yes their files are fine but the encrypted items can't be moved.   And I know a LOT of new users who don't like smart content and were desperate for a way to organize so that they can find what they need quickly.  I don't want my content organized by someone else.   I do appreciate what they are trying to do with smart content, I really do but its useless to me.  and that doesn't address the several thousand items I own that are freebies, poser versions of freebies, or items bought from another site. Those don't go into smart content to the best of my knowledge.  With my custom categories I know that I can go to Gen2F/Clothes/Dresses and have ALL of my Gen2F dresses listed there in order.  I cross reference, if an outfit has boots or shoes it goes into the outfits category but the boots or shoes also go into the boots and shoes categories so that if I want to kit bash, I don't have to run around all of creation trying to find things that match. Its all right there at my fingertips.  I could go on but I don't want to bore anyone. 

  • Gr00vusGr00vus Posts: 372

    I'm with you on all of this and have, basically, the identical approach to organizing my stuff in Studio. Smart content is useless to me, but the categorization functionality is perfect for my purposes. I just hope we can get a bit more confirmation that we'll be able to successfully carry our categorizations forward from 4.8 to 4.9. Until then I'm staying with 4.8. 

    Ice Dragon Art said:
    Khory said:

    And I know a LOT of new users who don't like smart content and were desperate for a way to organize so that they can find what they need quickly.  I don't want my content organized by someone else.   I do appreciate what they are trying to do with smart content, I really do but its useless to me.  and that doesn't address the several thousand items I own that are freebies, poser versions of freebies, or items bought from another site. Those don't go into smart content to the best of my knowledge.  With my custom categories I know that I can go to Gen2F/Clothes/Dresses and have ALL of my Gen2F dresses listed there in order.  I cross reference, if an outfit has boots or shoes it goes into the outfits category but the boots or shoes also go into the boots and shoes categories so that if I want to kit bash, I don't have to run around all of creation trying to find things that match. Its all right there at my fingertips.  I could go on but I don't want to bore anyone. 

     

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,386
    edited January 2016
    Richard Haseltine said:
    bradrg said:

     

    I don't know if this is a concern, but I am worried that we won't be able to back up our libraries, or transfer files to other computers. Bandwidth is quite expensive where I come from, and not all of my computers are connected to the internet, so I tend to download on one pc and then work on another. 

    You can back up for the current system, and you can use the data on a different system after connecting DS 4.9 to the store once.

    Currently there is conflicting information on this specific topic on the forum:

    - Some people say you can just move the /cloud folder to another machine and then log in once.

    But then in the DAZ Connect FAQ you can read:

    Can I copy products installed using Daz Connect from one computer to another?

    The preferred workflow is to log in to each computer and install the desired products using Daz Connect. If this is not a workable solution, please contact Customer Support for potential alternatives.

    Products downloaded and installed through Daz Install Manager or directly from the online store will continue to function as they currently do.

    - - -

    Source: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941599/#Comment_941599

    The FAQ does not explicitely say that just copying folders over is not possible. It more or less translates to IF you want to do that contact DAZ3D and then they may provide you with instructions.

    I only tested this on a very limited scope:

    - I copied one product folder from /cloud to a USB device

    - I then copied the product folder from the USB device to the cloud directory on my laptop.

    After launching DAZ Studio and loging in the product was not displayed under the "installed" tab on my laptop.

    Maybe I would have needed to perform some other steps but just loging in once was not enough to unlock the product for use.

    - - -

    Can someone from official DAZ Staff clear this up?

    Is there a way to use backups from /cloud folders on a different pc?

    And if so how does the activation happen?

     

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • ToborTobor Posts: 2,300
    diogenese19348 said:

    Hmmm... I can understand how you can move the loading scripts to another drive, but how were you separating out the textures and the object files?  In the poser setup they would be in textures and geometries under runtime, on the DAZ  side they were sometimes under /data, but often the textures still got tucked under /runtime/textures.

    *User-facing* files. Textures, morphs, and geometries, are not user facing.

    As long as these assets reside in a folder that's linked in Content Manager, they'll be found. Their location is relative from the root of the folders specified in Content Manager (both D|S and Poser work this way). To aid in speed, and to keep the search shallow, I don't separate the user-facing files from their pointed-to assets into different folders. What would be the point of that, other than overcomplicating things. 

  • SpottedKittySpottedKitty Posts: 7,232
    Subtropic Pixel said:
    I sincerely hope that DAZ Studio 4.10 or 5.0, whichever is next, includes REAL improvements to font sizes and the sizes of other controls such as dropdowns, buttons, clickable hotzones, scroll-bars, and so forth.

    I don't just want DAZ to dump a bunch of big icons and large fonts into DAZ Studio or other titles (do that first if it makes good sense, but don't stop there).  Ultimately, it needs to be done right; give the user CONTROL over that stuff, so that we can customize the appearance and readability of all the fine print, help dialogs, dropdowns, scroll bars, button sizes, sliders, and widgets.

    That would be nice, but remember the problems with the original D|S4.0 setup — I barely used it for quite a while, and it was only partly because my computer at the time could only just run it. The UI was so different from the previous version, with clunky huge parameter dial graphics and clumsy differences in the way actual mouse movements worked. The Darkside layout, which for a long time wasn't even official, did fix some of these issues. I still find, though, that whenever I need to use D|S3 to do something that D|S4 can't do any more, the increased usability is like a breath of fresh air.

    Also, remember the "aargh! my eyes!" issues of the initial versions of the last two major website redesigns. Someone at DAZ must have thought they were a good idea. Even after all the fixes and changes, some things still aren't as easy on the eyes as they were before.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,854

     

    Ice Dragon Art said:
    Khory said:

    They know that users who feel they need to organize are more often the ones who contact CS for help finding things or getting products to work properly. I recall several years ago when they human surface shader was first given away with Daz characters. Hundreds of people posted in the forums for months that it did not work. What did all of those people have in common? They had "organized" their content. Things like moving all those messy files like "scripts" and "shaders" out of studio to a nice clean organized folder structure away from the program. Most of those people were experienced users who felt confident they knew what and why to move files around.

    They know new users like smart content because they adopt it and continue to uses studio rather than throw their hands up and wander away. They also tell the company why they like it and what they wish was improved. That improvement is something that Daz has worked on based on user feedback over time. It isn't perfect yet but it is vastly improved and they are playing catchup with thousands of products.

    The custom categories do not move files around at all they simply link to files already in place by daz but allows me an easy way to find my stuff set up in a way that I know works for me.  And I am a new user, I don't like smart content it never worked very well for me and all it did was piss me off.  I don't want to move my main files. I simply want to continue to use my custom created categories in the same way that I use them now.I am still uncertain if this is possible in 4.9 or not.  Some say yes they aren't changed and work fine.  Others say no, its wiped them all out. Still others say that Yes their files are fine but the encrypted items can't be moved.   And I know a LOT of new users who don't like smart content and were desperate for a way to organize so that they can find what they need quickly.  I don't want my content organized by someone else.   I do appreciate what they are trying to do with smart content, I really do but its useless to me.  and that doesn't address the several thousand items I own that are freebies, poser versions of freebies, or items bought from another site. Those don't go into smart content to the best of my knowledge.  With my custom categories I know that I can go to Gen2F/Clothes/Dresses and have ALL of my Gen2F dresses listed there in order.  I cross reference, if an outfit has boots or shoes it goes into the outfits category but the boots or shoes also go into the boots and shoes categories so that if I want to kit bash, I don't have to run around all of creation trying to find things that match. Its all right there at my fingertips.  I could go on but I don't want to bore anyone. 

    Sonja, using custom categories is not the organizing we are talking about. In fact the category system is part of smart content. Back in the long ago Poser had a very strict set up and every product sold was for poser so that was the organization system that they had to go with. Just as an example the pose folder got not just poses but also textures for things as well. If you wanted to use V3 you found her, then went down to poses and applied her skin and then a figure pose. If you wanted to use a room it might be in props or it might be in figures. So people started organizing by adding more and more runtimes. In studio that would be a new content library for every thing your going to have organized. Depending on how much time they were willing to sink into it there might be a runtime for each figure, each type of  prop, and on and on. Think of each of those main folders you see in the content library as separate library of its own. In order to make that happen every product has to be unzipped and then all the folders inside it moved where the user wants it to go and that new content library added to studio so it can locate it. Pretty much every file gets touched as they get moved around and sometimes people forget that there are some files that absolutely have to be in a certain place for the product to work properly. Time passed and several years ago Daz started to get serious about organizing the content library logically. Most new users, and more than a few not so new, use the standard organizations that are part of studio, either the content folder, or smart content and categories or all 3.

  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    Tobor said:

    In a thread long ago and now in a galaxy far, far away, Rawb promised a method of allowing for at least some manipulation of Smart Content to make it more personalized. This was apart from shortcuts. He noted it likely would not make it to 4.9 release, which is why I'll probably skip this one for the time being. I think the rationale for having control over content organization has been discussed ad infinitum, and if we take Rawb at his word (don't see why not), we'll have this feature eventually.

    He didn't mention how it would be done, but hopefully they implement more than just simplistic shortcuts. That won't work for me, as I organize by project, not by content type. I may -- and often do -- install assets into project runtimes that are completely removed from the content list, and the C: drive. when I'm done with them. It may be a year, or maybe never, that I'll ever return to using that content. Mere shortcuts means always having the source assets using up space I'd prefer to manage myself.

    We all have different ways of doing this, and different reasons for it. Art is not a systemic constant, and the means of creating it should not be presumed. I don't think D|S has to be hamstung by the misjudgement that one system is suited for everyone. 

    I believe that everything that I thought was going in to assist content organization for 4.9 made it in to 4.9. I believe the feature I was talking about is the ability to drag files from Smart Content in to your Content Library and have them build up link files that you can move to your hearts content without breaking categorization, the database, or updating that content. Other things may have been the checkbox to disable filtering the view by context, or the different tabs to filter between the various "states" of your content (Installed/Available/Pending).

     

    Those are all in the shipping release (they actually made it in to one of the earlier betas but apparently us engineers aren't as good at marketing as the marketing department), so give it a run for it's money and see how you like it.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited January 2016
    Superdog said:
    f00bar.root_6039d0dd5c said:

    Encryption is a huge problem...

    E.g. it was possible to use clothing clones provided by daz studio to create morphing clones. Now they can prevent such things, meaning we have to buy even more stuff that should be included by default (actually it is kind of included, we can just no use it without changing a few lines of text, which they prevent now by encryting it).

    Not to mention scripts needing to be redesigned for encrypted stuff. The biggest disappointment for me is that of all the needed improvements DS could benefit from encryption was top of the list. Remember when Smart Content was meant to be the saviour of search confusion and DIM was going to solve content installation problems?  Based on past experience I predict that Connect won't solve these problems either. There are a number of third party content search apps out there which I own and none of them solve the difficulties of searching huge content folders containing obliquely named files.

    What interests me are the improvements to IRAY. Has the lag between adjusting a scene and viewport updates been solved? The reason I use Octane Render is that the viewport updates in real time rather than going black for ages. I find that unworkable.

    have giga bytes of content and never needed or used smart content.

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • DAZ_RawbDAZ_Rawb Posts: 817
    linvanchene said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    bradrg said:

     

    I don't know if this is a concern, but I am worried that we won't be able to back up our libraries, or transfer files to other computers. Bandwidth is quite expensive where I come from, and not all of my computers are connected to the internet, so I tend to download on one pc and then work on another. 

    You can back up for the current system, and you can use the data on a different system after connecting DS 4.9 to the store once.

    Currently there is conflicting information on this specific topic on the forum:

    - Some people say you can just move the /cloud folder to another machine and then log in once.

    But then in the DAZ Connect FAQ you can read:

    Can I copy products installed using Daz Connect from one computer to another?

    The preferred workflow is to log in to each computer and install the desired products using Daz Connect. If this is not a workable solution, please contact Customer Support for potential alternatives.

    Products downloaded and installed through Daz Install Manager or directly from the online store will continue to function as they currently do.

    - - -

    Source: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/941599/#Comment_941599

    The FAQ does not explicitely say that just copying folders over is not possible. It more or less translates to IF you want to do that contact DAZ3D and then they may provide you with instructions.

    I only tested this on a very limited scope:

    - I copied one product folder from /cloud to a USB device

    - I then copied the product folder from the USB device to the cloud directory on my laptop.

    After launching DAZ Studio and loging in the product was not displayed under the "installed" tab on my laptop.

    Maybe I would have needed to perform some other steps but just loging in once was not enough to unlock the product for use.

    - - -

    Can someone from official DAZ Staff clear this up?

    Is there a way to use backups from /cloud folders on a different pc?

    And if so how does the activation happen?

     

    There is good news and bad news on this one.

    The bad news is that an easy way to share cloud installed files between multiple machines was on the TODO for 4.9, but didn't make it TODONE for 4.9. It's not the encryption that is holding anything back, it was all built with the intention of being able to be shared between multiple machines that you owned. Because the database is such a central part of the new Daz Connect system if it doesn't believe the file is there then the rest of the system believes it. I had built a system earlier in the 4.9 pre-beta days but it made syncing slower than a snail in a Manitoba winter while having as many corner cases as a six dimensional dodecahedron, so it was wisely pulled out.

    The good news is that the workaround is just telling Daz Studio to reinstall the things that it previously had installed. Hardly any bandwidth will be used (just transferring some checksum files) and it will scan the files on your drive to make sure they are the latest version according to the server and then will mark them in the database as existing, fetching anything that is out of date. Even the metadata is cached to prevent having to redownload. I have heard that this would be pretty easy to script, but I have not yet heard of anyone giving it a try.

  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    DaWaterRat said:
    mmitchell_houston said:

    So you don't use Smart Content and never will? Good for you. Without statistics to support your worldview, you may be in the majority or the minority. I don't know. Forum representation of your workflow preference may not be indicative of the habits of the average user. 

    Here's a news flash. Some of us do use Smart Content -- and LIKE it. And I'm glad to see that this release has some long-overdue fixes to that system.

    Look, I get that DRM is an issue, and I also get that people are upset and some of you may never upgrade beyond 4.8. I have multiple computers and can support multiple installations of Daz Studio. Right now I've upgraded one of my systems to 4.9 and am giving it a test run. 

    In the meantime, though, we need to remember that this is a POINT RELEASE to FREE SOFTWARE. It's unfortunate that the anger around here is actually clouding the discussion so much so that I can't get opinions and info on what's been upgraded or fixed so I can decided if this upgrade is ready to move over to my primary development computer, or if it should just stay on my secondary.

    The Smart Content issue is not whether or not some people like smart content and some people don't.

    The issue is that Daz Connect makes Smart Content less optional than it has been, and because enough vendors like it, and at least one Developer thinks those of us who don't like it are foolish intractable dinosaurs (and yes, he did use dinosaurs) it is probably going to continue to become less and less optional as DS moves forward.

    You Like it? Fine. I don't care.  I don't like that I feel like I'm being slowly strong armed into using it.  I have never claimed to be in the Majority, just a larger minority than the Developers seem to think.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe there are only 10 of us who don't like to use Smart Content.  But I seriously doubt it.  And maybe you missed it, but I do use Smart Content.  I like the idea of Smart Content.  What I don't like is the way Smart Content is set up by default.  It doesn't fit the way I think.  And what I'm ranting about is that now I have to go fix it, because soon I won't be able to ignore it any more.

    Yes.  People are angry.  They don't like the DRM.  They don't like feeling like control is being taken away.  They don't like being told that the workflow they've developed over the past 10 years eventually won't work any more because it's not the same as what the Developers think it should be.  They don't like that all content they download through Daz Connect is going to be shoved into a single directory without their jumping through some hoops every. single. time. they want to change where it installs.

    As far as I'm concerned, the only good change is that I can now tell it to ignore context when I do use Smart Content, so If I do use Smart Conent, I can go find that old V4 shirt and use it on G2.  I don't render much in Iray, so I have no opinion about that, and all other changes are under the hood enough that I see no effect, one way or the other.

    I am angry and I don`t like the way DAZ goes. And and I will not use "daz connect" and if new products will just have the only option "daz connect" I will not buy them. I have spent thousands over the last years so if DAZ has the opinion they don`t need my money any more, well I can spent my money elsewhere for other things.

  • linvanchenelinvanchene Posts: 1,386
    edited January 2016
    DAZ_Rawb said:
    linvanchene said:

     

    Richard Haseltine said:

     

    bradrg said:

     

    - - -

    Can someone from official DAZ Staff clear this up?

    Is there a way to use backups from /cloud folders on a different pc?

    And if so how does the activation happen?

     

    There is good news and bad news on this one.

    The bad news is that an easy way to share cloud installed files between multiple machines was on the TODO for 4.9, but didn't make it TODONE for 4.9. It's not the encryption that is holding anything back, it was all built with the intention of being able to be shared between multiple machines that you owned. Because the database is such a central part of the new Daz Connect system if it doesn't believe the file is there then the rest of the system believes it. I had built a system earlier in the 4.9 pre-beta days but it made syncing slower than a snail in a Manitoba winter while having as many corner cases as a six dimensional dodecahedron, so it was wisely pulled out.

    The good news is that the workaround is just telling Daz Studio to reinstall the things that it previously had installed. Hardly any bandwidth will be used (just transferring some checksum files) and it will scan the files on your drive to make sure they are the latest version according to the server and then will mark them in the database as existing, fetching anything that is out of date. Even the metadata is cached to prevent having to redownload. I have heard that this would be pretty easy to script, but I have not yet heard of anyone giving it a try.

    Thank you for clearing that up. This sounds like  a promising solution.

    Maybe just one issue that could happen  with the workaround:

    If you do not know which files are included in the backup and install a different selection on the new computer you may end up with remaining product folders that are just lying there in /cloud without being detected but still using hd space.

    Suggestion:

    Installation Profile

    Currently users can export database files with their user created metadata.

    Why not add the ability to DAZ Studio to export an "Installation Profile" that gathers the following information:

    - All products installed

    - Custom Layout and UI style settings

    - Maybe even default library installation paths

    - etc

    When starting up DAZ Studio for the first time the "Installation Profile" is read and then DAZ Studio is set up exactly as it was before on the other computer.

    If the user made a backup of the /cloud drive this might help as well to prevent undetected product files in the /cloud directory because the database now knows exactly which files to check if they are around.

    If a local backup is found in /cloud -> activate and -> check next product

    If no local backup is found -> DAZ Connect just redownloads the product -> check next product

    Repeat until  the list of products collected in the Installation Profile is reinstalled.

     

    Post edited by linvanchene on
  • cosmo71cosmo71 Posts: 3,609
    edited January 2016

    Well I guess I will not buy any cloud stuff so connect and encypted not for me, to unsave for later use on a new machine so it seems even if making/using back ups (if possible)

    Post edited by cosmo71 on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,748
    Gr00vus said:
     

     

    Me too.

    Khory said:

     

    Ice Dragon Art said:
    Khory said:

    They know that users who feel they need to organize are more often the ones who contact CS for help finding things or getting products to work properly. I recall several years ago when they human surface shader was first given away with Daz characters. Hundreds of people posted in the forums for months that it did not work. What did all of those people have in common? They had "organized" their content. Things like moving all those messy files like "scripts" and "shaders" out of studio to a nice clean organized folder structure away from the program. Most of those people were experienced users who felt confident they knew what and why to move files around.

    They know new users like smart content because they adopt it and continue to uses studio rather than throw their hands up and wander away. They also tell the company why they like it and what they wish was improved. That improvement is something that Daz has worked on based on user feedback over time. It isn't perfect yet but it is vastly improved and they are playing catchup with thousands of products.

    The custom categories do not move files around at all they simply link to files already in place by daz but allows me an easy way to find my stuff set up in a way that I know works for me.  And I am a new user, I don't like smart content it never worked very well for me and all it did was piss me off.  I don't want to move my main files. I simply want to continue to use my custom created categories in the same way that I use them now.I am still uncertain if this is possible in 4.9 or not.  Some say yes they aren't changed and work fine.  Others say no, its wiped them all out. Still others say that Yes their files are fine but the encrypted items can't be moved.   And I know a LOT of new users who don't like smart content and were desperate for a way to organize so that they can find what they need quickly.  I don't want my content organized by someone else.   I do appreciate what they are trying to do with smart content, I really do but its useless to me.  and that doesn't address the several thousand items I own that are freebies, poser versions of freebies, or items bought from another site. Those don't go into smart content to the best of my knowledge.  With my custom categories I know that I can go to Gen2F/Clothes/Dresses and have ALL of my Gen2F dresses listed there in order.  I cross reference, if an outfit has boots or shoes it goes into the outfits category but the boots or shoes also go into the boots and shoes categories so that if I want to kit bash, I don't have to run around all of creation trying to find things that match. Its all right there at my fingertips.  I could go on but I don't want to bore anyone. 

    Sonja, using custom categories is not the organizing we are talking about. In fact the category system is part of smart content. Back in the long ago Poser had a very strict set up and every product sold was for poser so that was the organization system that they had to go with. Just as an example the pose folder got not just poses but also textures for things as well. If you wanted to use V3 you found her, then went down to poses and applied her skin and then a figure pose. If you wanted to use a room it might be in props or it might be in figures. So people started organizing by adding more and more runtimes. In studio that would be a new content library for every thing your going to have organized. Depending on how much time they were willing to sink into it there might be a runtime for each figure, each type of  prop, and on and on. Think of each of those main folders you see in the content library as separate library of its own. In order to make that happen every product has to be unzipped and then all the folders inside it moved where the user wants it to go and that new content library added to studio so it can locate it. Pretty much every file gets touched as they get moved around and sometimes people forget that there are some files that absolutely have to be in a certain place for the product to work properly. Time passed and several years ago Daz started to get serious about organizing the content library logically. Most new users, and more than a few not so new, use the standard organizations that are part of studio, either the content folder, or smart content and categories or all 3.

    Okay then I was misunderstanding.  I have no desire to move my actual files.  I tried that.  Once.  It was a disaster, mostly because I had no idea what I was doing.  I am still getting conflicting reports on wether my custom categories will still be usable though.    I totally undersand the reason why some people do move their files and I understand them being upset about not being able to continue to do so.  For me, I don't care where daz puts it as long as I can then organize it into my content categories (which are basically a linking system if I understand correctly).  So I will wait until I have a clear answer on this before I make any further decisions. I don't get that much time to work on actually making art as I would like as it is and having to spend a half an hour trying to find something that I can find in seconds in my custom categories just doesn't work for me.   The same thing happens when the company I work for changes how there website works.  Most of the time, they never bothered to ask their agents what they needed to imporve their work flow and make it easier to help their customers.  They decided thats the way they wanted it and just did it.  Which increased the work load for everyone because it was counter intuitive to how we do our job. and more time spent working around their changes so that we can actually work, means that they are losing money.

  • Subtropic PixelSubtropic Pixel Posts: 2,388
    SpottedKitty said:
    Subtropic Pixel said:
    I sincerely hope that DAZ Studio 4.10 or 5.0, whichever is next, includes REAL improvements to font sizes and the sizes of other controls such as dropdowns, buttons, clickable hotzones, scroll-bars, and so forth.

    I don't just want DAZ to dump a bunch of big icons and large fonts into DAZ Studio or other titles (do that first if it makes good sense, but don't stop there).  Ultimately, it needs to be done right; give the user CONTROL over that stuff, so that we can customize the appearance and readability of all the fine print, help dialogs, dropdowns, scroll bars, button sizes, sliders, and widgets.

    That would be nice, but remember the problems with the original D|S4.0 setup — I barely used it for quite a while, and it was only partly because my computer at the time could only just run it. The UI was so different from the previous version, with clunky huge parameter dial graphics and clumsy differences in the way actual mouse movements worked. The Darkside layout, which for a long time wasn't even official, did fix some of these issues. I still find, though, that whenever I need to use D|S3 to do something that D|S4 can't do any more, the increased usability is like a breath of fresh air.

    Also, remember the "aargh! my eyes!" issues of the initial versions of the last two major website redesigns. Someone at DAZ must have thought they were a good idea. Even after all the fixes and changes, some things still aren't as easy on the eyes as they were before.

    I understand your concern, but that's not a good reason to do nothing.  As it stands now, DAZ Studio is not very efficient for me because I have to keep hunching closer to my screens just to do basic tasks.  It's not possible to go closer than 2 feet because of my desk construction and the position of my keyboard.  And being closer than 2 feet isn't good for the eyes anyway.  Going back to 1024 X 756 is not the answer.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tried just about everything an end-user can do.  I'm just the most vocal about it now.

    And as my signature says, others have been able to accomplish this with their own software, some of which is also free like DS.  We need to stop being fearful about encouraging DAZ to keep up with the times and occasionally implement basic modernization upgrades.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,971
    Subtropic Pixel said:
    SpottedKitty said:
    Subtropic Pixel said:
    I sincerely hope that DAZ Studio 4.10 or 5.0, whichever is next, includes REAL improvements to font sizes and the sizes of other controls such as dropdowns, buttons, clickable hotzones, scroll-bars, and so forth.

    I don't just want DAZ to dump a bunch of big icons and large fonts into DAZ Studio or other titles (do that first if it makes good sense, but don't stop there).  Ultimately, it needs to be done right; give the user CONTROL over that stuff, so that we can customize the appearance and readability of all the fine print, help dialogs, dropdowns, scroll bars, button sizes, sliders, and widgets.

    That would be nice, but remember the problems with the original D|S4.0 setup — I barely used it for quite a while, and it was only partly because my computer at the time could only just run it. The UI was so different from the previous version, with clunky huge parameter dial graphics and clumsy differences in the way actual mouse movements worked. The Darkside layout, which for a long time wasn't even official, did fix some of these issues. I still find, though, that whenever I need to use D|S3 to do something that D|S4 can't do any more, the increased usability is like a breath of fresh air.

    Also, remember the "aargh! my eyes!" issues of the initial versions of the last two major website redesigns. Someone at DAZ must have thought they were a good idea. Even after all the fixes and changes, some things still aren't as easy on the eyes as they were before.

    I understand your concern, but that's not a good reason to do nothing.  As it stands now, DAZ Studio is not very efficient for me because I have to keep hunching closer to my screens just to do basic tasks.  It's not possible to go closer than 2 feet because of my desk construction and the position of my keyboard.  And being closer than 2 feet isn't good for the eyes anyway.  Going back to 1024 X 756 is not the answer.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one who has tried just about everything an end-user can do.  I'm just the most vocal about it now.

    And as my signature says, others have been able to accomplish this with their own software, some of which is also free like DS.  We need to stop being fearful about encouraging DAZ to keep up with the times and occasionally implement basic modernization upgrades.

    It has already beens tated that this is being worked on. However, you need to bear in mind that a chnage such as this may have knock-on effects that go through many sections of the application, and plug-ins, so it may not be possible to complete it quickly or - possibly  -without changing the SDK (so that elements can be told how big the fonts are) which means Daz Studio 5.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,971
    linvanchene said:
    If a local backup is found in /cloud -> activate and -> check next product

    If no local backup is found -> DAZ Connect just redownloads the product -> check next product

    I suspect this may be what Rawb was thinking of in respect to scripting -  it should be possible to get the list of content directories (I'm not sure how a Daz Connect Directory that wasn't a DS Content directory would show) then go through each one's \Data\Cloud folder looking for physically installed items and "install" them for the CMS. It wouldn't handle files that should be installed but aren't - for that you'd need some kind of cataloguer script on the source machine.

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