I've Spent Over $2,000 on Daz Products and I want All My Money Back
mwokee
Posts: 1,275
I do commercial art and sell images through an online stock agency. I heard through an acquaintance that Daz artsists apparently have been complaining because their products are being sold through other parties such as in my case.
Please note I am talking about RENDERED images (artwork), not actual software packages.
What I have learned is this: My agency is on the verge of no longer accpeting images with Daz products. Well, if that's going to be the case, then I want to return all the products I purchased and get my money back. That's a nice way of saying "Screw you." I double-checked the license agreement and it still says we have the right to sell our artwork.
I don't know what the entire situation is but if what I heard becomes true, then why am I here? Why am I spending money on your products?
OK, this hasn't happened yet so I don't want to sound like a ranting reactionary, and yes, I don't know all the facts of what the "discussions" to date are all about. But I wanted to say something before it's too late. I can draw and I can do phootgraphy so I will do just fine without spending another dime on Daz artsists. I found Daz to be a great way to increase my inventory but it will be unfortunate for all Daz artists if a few complainers are going to force us commercial artists to no longer purchase Daz products.
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Comments
Agreed. Also in this quote "My agency is on the verge of no longer accpeting images with Daz products", if true, that is not the fault of DAZ, so you might want to take the arguement to the agency instead.
Well, that kind of goes both ways. I have facts that I can't divulge so you don't have all the facts either. Since I can't identify my source I have to come across as a ranting reactionary. Unfortunate, but necessary, in this case.
Thanks for realizing and understanding this.
Well I know I would be upset if someone took one of my renders I worked hard on and started selling it. Unless of course, I was getting a cut...
1: if you want your money back, open a support ticket at work through that. Specify cash refund as default is store credit. You may only get the last 30 days back, but work with them.
2: Find out from your agency Exactly what products are being complained about. while Anything purchased from the store comes with a commercial licenses, many freebies, including some that get posted in the forums have a "for personal use only" license. Verify this.
3: Have your agency contact Daz Studios directly. If a vendor artist who is selling here is complaining about how something here is being used, it needs to be handled by the approprate people, Us in the forums aren't going to be able to help. It may be a simple mis-understanding, but if a vendor is complaining, they might be in violation of Daz Policy, and must be handled by Daz.
Good luck.
I completely agree with that. It's just that I know my agency is on the verge of pulling all images with Daz products. I suspect it's a few disgruntled Product Artists who are complaining and they need to think about what they're doing. If it happens, I am outta here. That's not a ranting threat, it's a fact.
I was advised to stop purchasing Daz products because of the pending decision. Do you people who work for Daz really want that? That's the point I want to make.
Without knowing any specifics its a little hard to offer any advice and I'm not sure a blanket message will reach your intended audience.
All I can say is, if you and your "agency" are not breaching any of the license agreements, then there is really no issue.
And if you're not breaching any license agreements its hard to say what the complainants are actually raising as an issue.
Generally Daz PA's raise any perceived legal issues or licence violations with the abuse team and do not pursue them personally.
If your agency does decide that images using Daz products are not what its looking for, it's beyond the control of either Daz3D or it's PA's. As legally there is no issue with selling an image using Daz Product in accordance with the applicable licensing agreements.
PA artists know exactly what they are getting into when they sell their stuff on Daz including the fact that many many people sell their renders commercially using the products the PA's provide. If they don't want that to happen then they shouldn't be selling here or anywhere else that allows commercial use of products. Seems like pretty simple solution. Now if people are taking promo art that belongs to the PA and selling it, if they are selling the actual items unchanged in any way or something like that then its an issue.
And Cdemerit has excellent advice. He said, she said means absolutely nothing and if someone is disgruntled they may simply be trying to sabotage. So your best bet is to handle this directly with Daz.
Design Anvil/Ice Dragon Art, yeah, I agree with you and have been around the block in the business to know what's up and down. This situation is just crazy. I know I'm sticking my neck out here and looking silly (such is the internet) but the situation is still real.
Daz staff and Product Artists, you read this. You read this good. I don't know who/what the catalyst was for this, but you need to stand down, whoever the complainers are. This is an agency with hundreds of thousands of contrbutors (not an exaggeration) of which a percentage use Daz products.
Just to clarify other comments, the agency primarily sells JPG images. They don't sell 3D products so you don't have people "borrowing" from other artists.
The only issue I am aware of when selling images only is if the image is deemed to be nothing more than a flat render of one of the textures inside the product purchased, and this would be particularly annoying to any PA that sells texture packs as merchant resources. So for example, if you take a render of a simple stone wall, and sell as a stone wall texture resource, that could be a problem.
So some PA's are complaining because people are rendering images with their products in them and those images are being resold on stock image sites? Is that the gist of it? If this is the case, then you're in a difficult positon. DAZ has nothing to do with this. And your reseller will very likely stop accepting images with DAZ products in them to avoid the hassle. I see why you'd be upset, but DAZ can't do anything about it. Maybe if you knew who were the PA's that are complaining, you could bring it to DAZ's attention. If it's bad for business, DAZ could sanction those PA's by not accepting their products anymore or whatnot (though that'd probably be unlikely unless DAZ notices harm to their sales).
All I can suggest is to refer your agency to the Daz3D Eula:
http://www.daz3d.com/eula
Especially to this section:
Terms of Use. Two Dimensional Works. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, User may (i) access, use, copy and modify the Content in the creation and presentation of two-dimensional animations and renderings, (ii) incorporate two dimensional images (including two dimensional images that simulate motion of three dimensional objects) derived by User from the Content in User’s other works, and (iii) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense User’s two-dimensional animations, renderings and other works; provided that User may not in any case publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the Content can be separately exported, extracted or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.
These are the terms for any Daz 3D product and explicity allows usage for creating commercial 2D images with the exception of creating derivative work(1).
If the agency has any questions beyond the Eula or with regard to the details the Eula, they can always contact Daz 3D directly who I am sure will be glad to offer any assistance possible.
Contact Daz 3D
•••
If PA's or vendors are making complaints outside of the terms the product was purchased under, frankly they are somewhat misguided and really do not have a legal leg to stand on. And I would suggest they seek advice from there Marketplace administrators before pursuing any personal actions on legal matters with regards to their content usage.
You won't get the attention you desire from Daz employees by posting in the forum. Daz does not actively monitor the forums. You are spitting into the wind, so to speak. To get a response from Daz, I would suggest that you submit a help request explaining your concerns and asking whatever questions you need to. Start with this link.
Give the facts to DAZ, specifically the complainers, and what they are complaining about. SPECIFICALLY with the exact cases. I've been here three years, vendors who really like seeing what people do with their products are in the vast majority. Frankly, I was a professor at a university teaching communication for five years, and when this and that gets passed along, it changes. Unless you have first hand experience with the complainer, bluntly,my advice is stay out of it. Second hand information has been filtered through that person's perceptions, you are NOT getting it firsthand, and it doesn't matter how much you trust that other person, the communication has already been through another channel. If you are in direct communication with the complainer, then steer them to DAZ and let them address the concerns.
Daz isn't going to make a large, stupid business decision. And frankly, I would be more worried about the reliability of that agency if they are such jump-the-gun type people. Nervous nellies are never good to work with, or for, if they don't bother getting the facts. Do they have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE WITH THE COMPLAINER?
DAZ has never, ever, NEVER indicated they didn't want us to render the products. If it's stealing someone else's art, I hope that gets prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Or, as mentioned, any part of the product such as textures, etc. If that's what you're talking about, then again, I repeat- report it to DAZ. Good luck to you (and IMO look for a second, more reliable agency. The number of contributors does NOT make them professional. It makes them a big agency, that's all. How you OPERATE makes you professional) This is my opinion and you may not like it, but given only what you've said, there's too many "what if's" and jumping the gun going on (unless again, that is your perception. I don't know if it's fact.)
The original post thoroughly confused me, so I'm glad I found this gem:
Truth to power.
I too would start looking for a better agency.
Great post and advice.
I believe that your agency is basing their decisions on incorrect information. As long as we are talking about renders, there is no violation of the EULA. Design Anvil has shown what the EULA states. There have been incidents where some promos created by PAs have been taken and attempts were made to sell those images. That would have more to do with the copyright ownership of the PA for images that they have created. As long as you have created the renders, you are within your rights to sell the images. I would contact Daz through their ticket system if you have any qualms. I sincerely think this is a case of misinformation.
Well that is what I know, We the customers can do with our renders what ever we want also selling them. Is this right?
As I know: It is not allowed to sell bought products or parts of products but it is allowed to sell renders with these products.
This is an issue to take up directly with DAZ.
PA's (in general) know what restrictions there are for our products, and what rights are given to our customers. So there really should not be any confusion. If there is a particular PA that needs reminding, then DAZ can easily do that.
The problem will not get solved in the forums
Seriously, why buying a product in a place like this, if you cannot sell the renders from it.
It's like buying a camera but not being able to sell the phots you've taken with it or buying paint but not being able to sell the paintings!
I think it's all some kind of misunderstanding, perhaps a language problem involved.
We are closing this thread as it is based on partial information and speculation. If the agency inquestion is indeed considering a ban on images made with content from Daz, or on images made with 3D content in general, please try to obtain a clear statement of what they are doing and why and then open a support ticket with Daz if it appears to stem from the actions of Daz or its PAs.