Graphics Cards: Building a Custom System: Which One?
rnollman
Posts: 310
I have spoken with quite a few people about which graphics card to get for a custom system with an i7 processor and 24 or 32 gb memory that I am having built for me by my local PC dealer.
The video card issues seem to be:
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amount memory on the card (4 Gb seems to be the best price/performance for my needs)
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core clock speed
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require 2 HDMI ports
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cooling issues and related fan noise
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number of cuda cores
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reliability and reputation of manufacturer
The person I spoke with at the PC dealer actually builds the custom systems they sell. He suggested one of three NVIDIA 970 cards from MSI, Strix, or EVGA. The MSI card is $418 and has a faster core clock speed. The Strix has a closer clock speed to the MSI and is a bit cheaper: $393. The EVGA has a slower clock speed and is $380. I knew about EVGA, but nothing about MSI and Strix. I read some reviews of the Strix card that were negative where people said that wished that had gotten the EVGA version, but they were relatively few. I just want to make sure that I go with the best reputation possible.
When I did some research, I found that there were many versions of the NVIDIA 970 with all kinds of specs from each manufacturer at varying prices. I am seeking guidance on how to determine which one will work best with DAZ Studio and IRAY in particular.
I have found that my IRAY rendering takes much longer than 3Delight on my current computer which is over five years old and has a video card with nowhere near the power of the ones I am looking at now. I find the rendering times for even 200 x 100 pixel renders with four lights and a figure is prohibitively slow using IRAY.
Add to this is the fact that I have had some discussions with some people I know who are DAZ vendors about their experiences with upgrading video cards. One mentioned that upgrading to the NVIDIA 970 4Gb card improved performance but it was not that big a jump from her NVIDIA 740 4Gb card (if I remember correctly). Since the 740 cards are quite a bit less, I was wondering if the 3x increase in price of the new 970 family of NVIDIA cards is really necessary or recommended.
I know the number of Cuda Cores is important and that the new cards have more. Also, as I understgand it, that if the DAZ Studio scene does not fit into the video card memory for IRAY rendering that the rendering is done with the CPU processing (which is much slower).
The thing that is most frustrating is that each manufacturer has multiple versions of the cards (five or more) with different features.
Here are the specs of cards that I am looking at (from the Newegg website):
EVGA GeForce GT 740 4GB GDDR5 Dual DVI mHDMI Graphics Cards
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Core Clock: 1085 MHz
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DVI: 1 x DVI-D 1 x DVI-I
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HDMI: 1 x mini HDMI
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Card Dimensions (L x H): 6.0" x 4.4"
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Model #: 01G-P4-3743-KR
PRICE: $100.00
EVGA GeForce GT 740 Superclocked DirectX 12 (feature level 11_0) 04G-P4-3748-KR 4GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Video Card
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Core Clock: 992 MHz
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Max Resolution: Analog: 2048 x 1536 Digital: 4096 x 2160
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DVI: 1 x DVI-D
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HDMI: 1 x HDMI
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Model #: 02G-P4-2740-KR
PRICE: $130.00
EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-3978-KR 4GB FTW+ GAMING w/ACX 2.0+, Whisper Silent Cooling w/ Free Installed Backplate Graphics Card
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Core Clock: 1216 MHz
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Max Resolution: Analog: 2048 x 1536 Digital: 4096 x 2160
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DisplayPort: 3 x DisplayPort 1.2
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DVI: 1 x Duallink DVI-I
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Model #: 04G-P4-3978-KR
PRICE: $380.00
ASUS GeForce GTX 970 STRIX-GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready SLI Support G-SYNC Support Video Card
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4GB 256-Bit GDDR5
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Core Clock 1114 MHz
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Boost Clock 1253 MHz
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1 x DVI-I
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1 x DVI-D 1 x HDMI 1 x DisplayPort
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1664 CUDA Cores
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PCI Express 3.0
PRICE: $394.00
MSI GeForce GTX 970 DirectX 12 GTX 970 GAMING 4G 4GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support G-SYNC Support Video Card
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4GB 256-Bit GDDR5
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Core Clock: 1140 MHz (OC Mode) 1114 MHz (Gaming Mode) 1051 MHz (Silent Mode)
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Max Resolution: 4096 x 2160
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DisplayPort: 1 x DisplayPort 1.2
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DVI: 1 x Dual-link DVI-I 1 x Dual-link DVI-D
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Model #: GTX 970 GAMING 4G
PRICE: $418.00
Any help in deciding which video card to purchase would be greatly appreciated.
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Comments
I'd say the cheapest 970 will be fine. CUDA cores is more important than clock speed for our purposes. Any of those brands are fine. I'm partial to EVGA .
What type of case will this be in? If it's small or cramped, or if there is not ventilation over the graphics card, you might consider getting a reference-style cooler. The person at the PC Dealer will know what that is. Sometimes those can be cheap[er as well, but they can be noisy depending on your fan settings.
asus do the strix, nice and quiet; I'd consider waiting for the pascal cards released later this year.
But the 970 is a nice balance between performance and cost; 980ti is probably the best to get if budget will stretch.
I'd still consider waiting.
I'd second the wait as well, although I'd say the pascal cards are probably going to hit four figures in their price point, given their projected performance.
Cannot wait because right now I am dead in the water with my current graphics card. and four figures is beyond my budget anyway.
The case is HUGE compared to my current HP desktop. It has these big fans on the top. Of course I must ask why there are such big fans...
Powerful parts generate lots of heat. Heat hinders performance. Large fans provide maximum airflow to maintain low temps.
Sounds like the case has good airflow. Those fans are likely there for exhaust purpose, but not sure without knowing the exact case.
Any 970, reference or non-reference, should be fine.
Just looked up the 980ti! Mercy...2816 cores -- 6 GBs! Wow! Worth stretching my budget for. Got a year-end bonus at work...
One more question. My PC dealer already has systems built with 24 Gbs of fast RAM. Is it worth it for me to pay extra for him to build me a system with 32 Gbs. He seems to feel that 24 Gbs is more than enough. Also, the memory is not upgradeable. And the motherboard will be more expensive because he thinks it will need to be buffered.
Is there any reason to think I would ever need to updgrade a 32 Gb system to 64 Gbs (or more) if I go that route?
System RAM works in concert with VRAM to provide optimum render speeds. The more complex your models and the higher resolution your textures, the more RAM you'll need to prevent system paging, which will kill your render times. If you want to future-proof your PC, and can afford to do so, more RAM is better.
My current PC is two years old now, and was built with parts specifically chosen for the primary task of rendering 3D art, including 32 GB of RAM. When I can afford it, I'm going to swap out the motherboard to build one with 64 GB.
I'm expecting delivery of a 980 Ti, sometime today. It's going to share processing power with my GTX 780, which will continue serving as my display adapter.
Just consider that large fans or small fans must work in unison; don't count the fans and presume they work. You need to consider the airflow they move (available in technical specs), and their placement and what items are restricting them.
There are two types of case-cooling: positive pressure and negative pressure. Each is useful. Are you haveing it built?
You may need more memory; I'd certainly suggest at least 32; multitasking is smoother, and if for some reason you do end up rendering on the main CPU instead of the card, then there is plenty available.
Buffered (ECC) memory provides various error checking; you don't need it for rendering. It has a cost involved. He's conning you (perhaps I'm being a bit strong in my opinion), if he is trying to get you to spend on it. It does, however, depend on your computer useage beyond graphics and rendering. Without knowing the rest of your system, and your useage outside of graphics and rendering, it is hard to offer appropriate advice.
Just my 2cts:
If you go for 970 route and think you'll do a lot of iray renders etc... I often read that people invest in a second one (dual 970 system) few month after. I think that you should consider a 980 ti directly, eventually with a little credit. 980ti is BETTER than 2x970 even if 2*970 have (a little) more CUDA core.
I did it myself and I don't regret it. The befefice is huge.
Some generalizations (take with an appropriate grain of salt):
I agree you do not need buffered memory. That is preferred for servers, but not for consumer gear. Memory quality and reliability have increased so much, it's not necessary, even at 32GB.
In general, the reason behind the trend toward large diameter case fans is that they are a lot quieter than small fans. If you want the extreme case, go stand next to a 1U server when it's first booting up. All eight 1" double row fans hit 9600 RPM briefly. It sounds like an army of vacuum cleaners in full riot. large diameter case fans are a lot quieter.
First, to be fair to my PC guy, he was not encouraging me not to spend the extra money for the new motherboard. He seemed to think that 24 Gigs would be plenty. However, when I heard about the 980ti, I went back today and asked about replacing the card in their cuatom built system and he looked up the specs and found that the motherboard was not compatible with the 980ti. He said something about 2.0 versus 3.0 support (not sure exactly what he was referring to). So we priced out a custom built system from scratch with 32 gigs of RAM expandable to 64, a different motherboard, and the 980ti card and it was around $2600 including $200 for labor.
The original system with the GTX 960 card with 24 GBs of RAM priced out at around $1300:
$650 for the original system
$225 for 16 Gbs of RAM added tot he existing 8Gbs
$380 for the GTX 970 video card upgrade
$65 for labor to do the upgrade
So, at this point, I have to decide if I want to spend $2600 for the ultimate 3D modeling and rendering system (6 Gbs of video RAM and 2000+ cuda cores and 32 Gs of RAM) or settle for only a "serious" upgrade from my current system, but not the "utlimate" system, and spend only $1300.
Best Buy is offering a graphics desktop system with an i7 processor, 32 gb of RAM, and the 970 video card for around $1800, but then you have to purchase the 3-year Geek Squad warranty for $300. I once did not get the three-year warranty and regretted it.
I guess I will let my wife be the determining factor. I have my year-end bonus that will cover the less expensive system. But I never know what she will say. She knows that I have to upgrade my over five-year old system, but maybe not to the tune of $2600 -- "after all, Richard, there so many things in our house that need to be fixed..." Of course, right now my AMEX card has a zero balance...and so does hers...so I put the extra $500 on each of our cards (I pay the bills) and life is good...and then there is the tax write-off...30% I figure...LOL or maybe COL...
I'd probably prefer a system with 16GB of ram and a 980ti.
Probably, and it's what I have atm; with a 970 as well; I always intended to upgrade the memory, and it would benefit some, just not managed it yet. My old system, about 8 years old now, has 18GB of ram and is an early i7. :) So always hard to recommend how others spend their cash - well easy, but tought to be sure one is giving good advice.
Well, one of the reasons I am decided that I needed significantly more memory than 6 GB is that I bought a product called The Lost Place (see attached image). I loaded the preset scene which includes alot of trees, shrubs, and rocks into the viewport. Moving around was like moving in very thick mud. I had to use Soild Bounding Box mode to move around. It was not very pleasant. I complained about this in a post in this forum and was told that trees and shrubs require alot of memory. I want to use DAZ Studio for children's book illsutrations and realized that to be successful, I would need much more memory. Then I started having issues using IRAY with long render times and realized that I needed a video card with at least 4 GB memory.
The other issue is that it appears that you need a motherboard that is compatible with the 980ti which means serious extra money. As I remember it now, my PC guy explained that the 980ti would work with the mother board in the 24 GB machine, but it would not be able to use its full capability because the motherboard lacked some required features. That would defeat the purpose of upgrading the video card in the system.
Preview speed probably reflects your video card more than system RAM, though in extreme cases that may be a factor, Still, 6GB is on the meagre side.