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I have been reading some reviews on the Asus X99 MB and they are less than satisfactory, does anyone here have any personal experience with this board good or bad?
It can work, but can cause issues; NVidia recommend not using SLI for rendering. Try Google.
What Daz_Spooky said on the PSU. And go for a least a gold rating, or maybe even platinum; (although considering the cons being done to consumers from the car and electronics industries, perhaps Gold and Platinum will turn out to be smoke and mirrors.)
The mechanical Hard Drive is a little overkill, with the SSD you have, it's not going to make much difference, (presuming you're using it for Daz stuff and other files.) It's a cost of limited value imo, but I suppose it depends on its percentage cost of the system as a whole. You could probably get a larger capacity without paying the premium for about the same; or go for two 2TB in raid 1 and get some redundancy.
S'all good. The KRAIT is super sharp looking anyway. ACX won't be an issue with enough space. In either the Thermaltake or 750D, you should expect temps around 60C while rendering, perhaps a bit higher on the top card. Could be higher, but that leaves a lot of wiggle room. An aggressive fan curve helps a lot, but you'll hear the fans for sure in that case.
I agree.
PCI-e lanes have little to no effect on actual rendering speed, but it is true the 4790K only has 16 full speed lanes. This link is for Cycles, but there's good information in it, particularly the second post:
http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?373317-Multiple-GPU-and-PCIe-lanes
And Puget's article on PCI-e lanes and gaming seems relevant as well:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Impact-of-PCI-E-Speed-on-Gaming-Performance-518/
No personal experience with this board, so I suppose I'm not really answering the question...but it's my opinion that one can't really trust any reviews on places like newegg when it comes to hardware. You get people trying to jam the wrong cpu into mismatched motherboards and then blaming the manufacturerer for bent pins; a lot of brand loyalty leads to outright flaming of competing products; people not connecting stuff incorrectly and then claiming a mobo doesn't POST. Linus from LinusTechTips speaks very highly of ASUS motherboards, and that's definitely good enough for me. I have an old X79 ASUS mobo that has like 1.5 stars on newegg or something and it's amazing. These companies can't make bad products and still exist, the competition is too fierce. I'd say the quality on all of the major brands is the same...it just comes down to numbers and style. If you had your heart set on a particularl ASUS board, I'd go ahead and get it and not sweat some negative reviews.
Edit: added link to Puget article.
Which X99 Asus board ? I've had a X99-S for about six months I guess and it's been fine. Setting up the M.2 SSD was a bit more convoluted than usual but doable. The BIOS is fairly easy to use and overclock. All the drivers seem to be working fine so far. No problems to report as yet.
This is the one I have in my parts list
ASUS X99-A/USB 3.1 LGA 2011-v3 Intel X99 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard.
Ahh yes, sorry, I did look back just a few seconds ago before you posted, thinking I probably missed something. Sorry I have no idea about that one. I'll see if I can find some reviews.
Seems to get good reviews from a few places :
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/pcs/motherboards/1402111/asus-x99-a-review
https://www.asus.com/uk/Motherboards/X99A/review/
I just thought of something; the cards have to be adjacent to use SLI. Should I want to get a second card in the future and use it in SLI for gaming, could I use one card with ATX 2.0 and one with a standard rear blower and have the blower on the bottom card so it doesn't blast the upper ATX one? It sounds like it would work in theory, but I thought I'd check. :)
Thanks for those links, good reviews which told me that if you use a 5820 on that MB
Quoted from review
So what would be the alternative in a processor?
Once I figure out all the parts I want and that they are compatible, I am going to tackle building this myself which I haven't done for a long time, my last 2 computers were laptops. Last night I dug out the old desktop I built to see what parts may be useable in a new build..it had a 350W power supply, 2 memory sticks of 512 MB each, an Asus MB ( # PCG...something, I don't remember now) and a Chaintech Nvidea card. I don't think any of the parts are useable
overpowerd PSU is never problem but an underpowered one will kill your components under strain.
Kharma,
That thing about the bus lanes only appears to affect more than two GPUs, I'm not sure how many you want.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/haswell-e-i7-5820k-pci-express,27507.html
And little more here...
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2677792/5820k-5930k-pcie-lanes.html
As always there are compromises set by how much you want to spend.
Thanks for the continuing advice. :)
I read some comments on overclocking forums and people seem to have no problems with combining ACX and stock blower cards if they're positioned correctly. One guy had two Titans in that setup and said his temps didn't go over 70C.You're right about the SLI bridges, I'd seen longer ones but never really thought about SLI at all until recently.
I guess the safe thing to do would be to buy an ACX as the first card (because I'm not absolutely sure I will need a second card any time soon), and if I do decide on another one, get a standard blower on the second and rearrange them.
Haha, this might be a dumb question but I'm just curious...if the primary function of fans and cooling is to move hot air out of the system, why is it not advisable to just keep the sides off of the cases and make it as open as possible?
This is why I go for cases with a massive mesh. Perspex windows or whatever look cool, but they keep the heat in.
I thought a mesh was the best compromise, this is mine : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zalman-Z9-Plus-Midi-Tower/dp/B004FPQL0E
Internal case temp sits at 25C and not much higher.
It also has a mesh on top for rising heat to escape.
Both cards get used. The Ram is not additive, but count as individual cards.
Having said that, according to NVIDIA SLI, when turned on, will usually cause slower renders and can cause an occasional crash. You can turn off SLI from the NVIDIA Control panel, and turn it back on when you are not using Iray. :)
Sorry, but you're right...none of those parts are usable.
Regarding 5820k and pcie lanes...pcie controls the bandwidth between cpu/ram and gpu(s). Pcie 3 has transfer speeds of 1 GB/s per lane, so 16x would be 16 GB/s. That's nearly three times over overkill in my book, since you can only hold 6 gb on the 980 ti anyway. You can have as many graphics cards as your mobo has room for, they just won't operate at 16x. Even if they're all operating at 4x, that's not so slow if you can only transfer 6 gb to the cards anyway. I've got 5 gpus (one is a titan z, a dual gpu) on a z97/4790k board, which only has 16 lanes. Rendering in octane scales almost perfectly in my setup. I don't know what the transfer rates are, but probably 4x, and it's plenty fast. Gpus render, pcie lanes transfers data. This might matter in gaming more, but for rendering once the scene is passed off to gpu by pcie, it's all gpu from there. If you're still wary of the 5820k, you could go with 5930k or 5960x for differing levels of overkill. Two links I posted earlier in this thread may shed more light on the topic.
Edit: formatting and typos
Widdershins Studio, I will probably have to start with one video card 970 and hopefully add a 980Ti 6GB eventually, My budget is 2500 -3000 canadian dollars ( hopefully at the lower end haha) so yes eventually 2 video cards, one for the monitor and one for rendering. If by trying different parts scenerios will get me a 980Ti I will just go for the one.
If anyone is familiar with youtube channel of Carey Holzman, his computer build videos are amazing! He shows all the parts he uses, how to install them, the videos are clear and concise, and none of that horrible background music so you hear everything he says loud and clear. I am watching one of his videos right now that was posted Dec 19 so very current on building an ultimate gaming machine with 2 980Ti nvidea cards. Amazing instructor which answered several questions about which parts work together and just how much power you need and what you don't need...check him out!!
JCThomas thanks for that info, I am learning so much about the different components and what is necessary and what's not...awesome :)
Standard advice is get the best GPU you can afford at the moment. I strongly recommend fitting in the 980 ti. I don't know my conversion rates, but I checked out the build on Holzman's channel you were talking about, and that seems like it falls within a 2500 USD budget. 5820k on the Gigabyte UD3P I mentioned in this thread with some standard DDR4 RAM would be maybe 100-150 more.
No problem.
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply the different coolers would amke a difference. I just meant that the ACX edition of Nvidiaa gpus usually has a higher clock speed than reference models (Off the top of my head I think it's 1190 MHz on the ACX model you've been talking about and 1000 MHz on the reference model). For SLI, I think you need to use the same clock speed. I don't game, so I could be wrong though. If you bought two cards with different cooling options, the best thing would be to make sure they're the same clock speed out of the box (I think EVGA has a Superclocked reference cooler model clocked at 1190 also...). If that's possible,m match the clockspeeds in an application.
Dust, mostly.
Also, other things need the air moving over them besides the GPU and CPU, even the mobo and ram, things that seem like they might be pretty cool naturally still need cooling. Closed cases ensure the air goes where it's supposed to. I had side fans on a former case, and set to intake they lowered reference cooler temps by about 10 C. Set to exhaust, they lowered temps on ACX-style coolers, not by quite as much though. Airflow is a fascinating topic in my opinion, honestly. Very good temps can be had with nothing but air. In generel, in, up, and out is the desired sequence for typical positive pressure cases and the easiest to set up. And it needs the side panel on to work.
Glad it's helpful. Check out Linus on Linus TechTips as well. He has some great build guides and general knowledge/myth-busting stuff as well.
edit 2: just read that you do not need identical clock speeds to SLI, the faster card will just downgrade to the slower card's speed. You only need to make sure it's the same chipset (two 970s, two 980s, etc). Something I did not expect though was that the RAM is not combined in SLI for gaming, I thought it would be.
Ahh, ok thank you very much. I wasn't quite sure what you meant when you said it could get finicky with two different cards. I will make a note to be sure to get another card with the same clock speed if I ever go SLI. Of course by that time, Titans may drop in price after the next Nvidia release and I could just buy one of those to go with the 980ti and not SLI in the end. Things change so fast, they're not kidding when they say your system is outdated by the time you put it together.
Thanks for the fan info too. Do you recommend more smaller fans or fewer larger ones, or does it make much of a difference as long as they're moving the air the right way?
edit: I'm beginning to learn a little more towards this card now because I actually don't want it overclocked out of the box. Can't quite tell if it's ACX 2.0 or blower though (probably blower?)
http://pcpartpicker.com/part/msi-video-card-gtx980tigaming6g
just tossing some other case ideas if you were to go Mid Tower
Thermaltake Versa H21 Mid-tower chassis
Fractal Design Define R4
I 'm not sure if you looked at all the case options out there
I was on a break from other things, thought I post here with something
On a build I be planning to put together here shortly those were my final choices, I think the Fractal may be my final pick, since it looks like I plan to add the Hydro Series H105 CPU cooler
Cool, glad to have that sorted. Like I said, I don't game, so I've never had an SLI setup before.
Normally you have two choices, 120mm or 140mm for case fans, but you'll typically have the same number of whatever you choose because it all depends on the mounting locations in your case. For example, the 750D I mentioned earlier has two pre-installed 140mm fans up front setup as intake. It has holes to mount 120mm if you want instead, but there wouldn't be space to mount three 120s.
Rather than number vs size, it typically comes down to RPM/airflow vs size and noise/size. Smaller fans typically have higher rpms and therefore push more air and are noisier. Bigger fans usually have lower rpms and push less air and are quieter. I suppose that's not quite right...smaller fans have to go faster to push as much as larger fans. Honestly, the case fans in the 750d, for example, would be more than adequate for what you've described so far. It comes with one rear 140mm exhaust as well. Also remember that a bottom mounted PSU is setup to push air up, so most modern cases are setup already as efficient positive pressure cases. (slightly more air coming in than going out).
So the quicker answer is moving air the right way is more important.
Air cooled gpus are cooled either "peripherally" or "linearly.: The former exhausts hot air in all directions, the latter exhaust the air only out of the card's IO panel at the back of the case (a straight line.) Reference coolers (blowers) are linear. The ACX 2.0 is just EVGA's version of peripheral cooling. I think it stands for Advanced Cooling Xtreme or some such nonsense. The card you've linked to here also uses peripheral cooling. I think MSI calls theirs Twin FROZR or something equally ridiculous. Asus calls their custom cooling solution STRIX. I don't mean to knock the technology, it's just silly marketing for what are essentially the same products.
If you can see the fan, as in the card here, it's peripheral. If you can't, (because it's encased in some kind of shroud), it's linear/reference/blower.
Here's a 980ti with a reference cooler:
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/geforce-gtx-980-ti/buy-gpu
I suppose you can see the fan, but I think the difference is pretty obvious. The big shroud of gray metal is...the big shroud of gray metal.
Here's another example of a blower/linear cooler:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127891
Finally, that is a very high-performing 980 ti, and an excellent price. But it's overclocked out of the box slightly more than the EVGA ACX 2.0. After double checking, the reference 980 ti has a clock speed of 1000 mhz, and boost of 1075. That MSI hits 12-- something I think.
I'm realizing perhaps I've been unclear when I say "reference" cooler. The reference cooler or reference design is what you would get if you bought a card directly from Nvidia, as shown in the link. Some manufacturers sell the exact reference design (EVGA and PNY come to mind) in addition to their own custom solutions.
If you don't want a factory overclocked card because you want to overclock it yourself, cool. If you don't want a factory overclocked card be you're worried that it will be unstable or break or something, I'd suggest not worrying about that. They're tested plenty. If you don't want a factory overclocked card because it uses more power, that's legitimate. They get their higher clockspeed by using more power. But, overclocked out of the box or not, you're unlikely to find a better price for those specs.
I can say from experience that Fractal Design makes some amazing cases. I've also got an Arc XL, and I love it. Got the 750 D because the Arc XL wouldn't fit an EK Predator 240 up front, but it's still awesome.
Gotta admit, Thermaltake is a bit Transformer-y in my opinion.
Thanks again for the detailed explanations, I've learned a lot from you and will try not to bother you with any more questions (for now). ;) I think I'll end up getting the original EVGA 980ti I linked to earlier after all; my EVGA GTX 760 has been extremely reliable for years, and even if I do end up with two cards in the future, at least one of them using peripheral venting is probably a good idea. My biggest concern actually is that there will not be as large a performance increase going from a 760 to a 980ti as I'm hoping for. The most important improvement I want to make is in the preview speed of the Iray "live" Auxillary Viewport. I don't mind waiting a little bit for renders (I just take a nap, heh), but I really need to be able to preview material adjustments and lighting changes faster and in a larger window. Guess the only way to know for sure is to try one in this computer and then plan things out once I see what kind of a difference it makes.
Thanks again for your help!
No problem, glad you found it helpful. I really like this topic, so I'm happy to answer more questions if I'm able.
Comparing CUDA cores, I'd say expecting three times the performance out of the 980ti compared to 760 is a reasonable expectation.
Just realize this question hadn't been answered yet. No, not all slots have to be full. The specific slots that are filled do matter though. LIke, if you only have one stick of 8GB, it has to go in a specific slot. The motherboard manual will tell you where. If that mobo has 8 slot, you could add more later. That would be a good plan. I think technically each stick of RAM is only guaranteed to work with the other sticks of RAM that come with it, because that's how they were tested. But I've not heard of problems with combining identical kits. I have two 16 GB kits in my Z97 rig, and there's been no problems.
The 3400 is the speed of RAM. My knowledge of RAM is more limited than other topics, but basically two things determine how fast the memory is, clockspeed and cas latency. 3400 is the clockspeed of that RAM. In my opinion, it's unnecessarily high, and therefore expensive. Lower latency is faster, higher speed is faster. Usually as the speed goes up, the latency goes down. The latency of RAM you posted is 16, which is kinda high for DDR4 (latency in DDR4 is higher than DDR3, but so is speed.)
This kit would be fine:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231889
Almost half the price.
@JCThomas Yes I like that price much better:) I researched and found that RAM is sold in pairs and should be used that way so if you have 4 sockets and 1 & 3 are black and 2 & 4 are grey you put a pair in each color sockets, that's the way I understood it, just a rough example. Also that when you upgrade you should get the exact same ram for the best performance.
@JCThomas: Sorry, I hate to have to ask you another question, but there's one more thing about ACX-type cooling that I'm not quite understanding. In what I assume is a normal motherboard configuration, an ACX video card will blow air down towards the bottom of the case and the power supply. Isn't this counterproductive since the air has to then be moved back up in order to vent from the top? Wouldn't it make more sense to mount the motherboard upside-down so that the card is very close to the top of the case and the air can be easily vented either up through top fans or out the exhaust fan in the top-rear?
Thanks again!
No problem.
Peripherally-cooled gpus won't exhaust air down actually. Most have two fans attached to the heat sink. The fans are facing so that they blow up, hitting the bottom of the PCB (circuit board). The air would then escape out the sides. So the bottom mounted PSU is actually helping this escaped air move up toward the rear exhaust. Additional top exhaust would help too, but the air flow wouldn't be fighting itself.
Ahh, I assumed that the air was being blown in the direction the fans were facing. That explains a lot. Thanks again!
I haven't had time to read all the prior posts here yet, but saw some regarding SSDs and I wanted to add some thoughts.
I recently installed a 2TB Samsung 850 EVO. This drive replaced three olser 256 GB drives, simplifying the interior of my tower (although I have not yet disconnected the old drives), and supports my OS, APP, MP3, and two music sample instrument partitions. I have left about 300 GB of freespace across the partitions and another 300 GB unallocated and available for future reapportionment. Another 1TB drive holds my 3D runtime library, more music sample partitions, and a partition for music recording.
Most of my stuff now is on SSD. Highly recommended. But you still need to take backups. Don't ever cheap out on backups, you'll only be doing yourself a disservice.