LIE asset creating a line on the model's skin.

First off, I want to thank everyone who's helped people out here. This is the first issue I've run into that I can't find an answer to on here. (Probably because I couldn't think of a simple way to search for this issue.) You guys are awesome!

I've been using these LIE tattoo assets for awhile now and somehow never noticed the line where the asset ends until last night when I was making a "golden hour" shot for a character and with the lighting it just stood out like a flare. I went back and looked at the other renders of the character I've done and yup...it's there. Not as noticable but there and now I can't unsee it. I assume its because the creater used jpg which doesn't have transparency instead of png. Is there anything I can do to fix it without diving into photoshop to change the files and edit the dufs to point to the new png instead of jpg? Am I completely wrong about what's causing it?

The images...

1) Character without any LIE

2) Character with the tattoo LIE asset showing the line

3) Character with a different tattoo LIE using png instead of jpg... the line is still there but just barely and can be ignored or touched up post render.

01.png
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02.png
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03.png
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Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 97,395

    The whole skin is changing tone, if that is the same scene and character just plus/minus the overlay. It may be that the mask layer in the LIE is not quite 100% black, though that doesn't explain why there is a shift even on the other surfaces.

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    The whole skin is changing tone, if that is the same scene and character just plus/minus the overlay. It may be that the mask layer in the LIE is not quite 100% black, though that doesn't explain why there is a shift even on the other surfaces.

    I did notice the odd change in skin tone and how the lighting interacts with it after I posted and started looking at the renders closer. Nothing changes in the scene other than the LIEs. I started the model fresh, applied the offending LIE, rendered, undid it, rendered, and applied a different LIE to show the difference. I did have to move the view in the 3rd image just to show I did add a different LIE tattoo because it didn't show in the view I was using, but that won't have anything to do with it, just a note in case the change in view is noticed.

    I'm still thinking it has something to do with the lack of transparency in the jpg... but I don't know. When I have time, I might fiddle around with other LIEs I have and see the differences between jpgs and pngs.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 9,282

    Which tattoos are you using? Are you using presets, or manually applying them in the LIE editor?

  • Gordig said:

    Which tattoos are you using? Are you using presets, or manually applying them in the LIE editor?

    https://www.daz3d.com/inked-vol21-for-genesis-8-females

    These. If you look at the example images on the page, its really hard to see, which is why I made many renders using them and never noticed. But if you look at the left arm on the 6th promo image, you can actually see the line. 

    I've tried presets and manually applying them. Both result in the line. It is hard to makeout unless its a close up render or apparently an orange-ish sunset light.

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 4,832

    Odd ~~ I saw no such an issue on my side... Which character are you using for showing the above screenshots ?

  • crosswind said:

    Odd ~~ I saw no such an issue on my side... Which character are you using for showing the above screenshots ?

    It's a JASA skin on a custom morph. I tested it on several random characters and it's definitely there. Like I said, it is barely noticable unless under the right light. 

  • Update...

    Did some messing around and I'm about 99% sure the issue is the use of jpg instead of png. I compared it to other LIE tattoos that use png and don't get that line where the torso meets the arm. Examining the dufs, the png is able to use a blend setting while the jpg has to use multiply to avoid the entire torso being covered in white. I had a hunch and google image searched (dreamcatcher drawing) for the tattoo I use on the character and sure enough, the tattoo was created using a pre-existing asset and I assume it wasn't available in png with a transparency.

    So, I plopped the jpg in photoshop and did a quick and dirty edit, deleting all the white to create a transparent png. Edited the duf to point to the png instead of the jpg, and tested... yup, the line is gone. It's going to take some work to get the thing to look good, though.

    I've been using this character and the tattoos for over a year now and have done dozens of renders using her and never noticed. It just took this one render for the light to be just right to make it stand out and now I can't unsee it in my previous renders. lol

    (just a note... I'm not trashing the creator or anything, and I'm not 100% sure this is the issue. It could be something I'm doing wrong...this is just all my assumptions and hypothesis.)

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,115

    jpg doesn't have an alpha channel

    The problem shows in the promo images also

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 97,395

    Was the white pure white? Multiplying by pure white should leave the original under colour untouched.

  • IceCrMn said:

    jpg doesn't have an alpha channel

    The problem shows in the promo images also

    Yeah it does. Its not really noticable unless you really look. I was hoping there would be some easy way to clean it up because I love that dreamcatcher tattoo. 

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    Was the white pure white? Multiplying by pure white should leave the original under colour untouched.

    According to photoshop, it is white. ffffff or 255,255,255

  • Richard Haseltine said:

    Was the white pure white? Multiplying by pure white should leave the original under colour untouched.

    Your comment gave me an idea. I know multiplying white should work just fine, but it made me wonder if Daz was handling it correctly, so I edited the skin in photoshop using multiple, then applied it. Line gone! I'll need to work on the tattoo color a little to make it pop like the original, but no line is a step in the right direction.

    Character on the left is the original, using the LIE preset... line on the arm.

    Character on the right is the skin with no preset tattoos and the photoshop file added. No line! 

     

    01.png
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  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 4,832
    edited April 16

    Right, with a JASA character, I could reproduce the issue. But I found that the culprit was not the tattoo texture maps themselves but LIE layers added to Glossy Layered Weight as well as Top Coat Weight. If setting the maps to none on those two layers (only having values matters...), there'll be no issue... as shown in the attached screenshots.

    1) Since JASA's characters use Dual Lobe Specular layers, Glossy Layered should've been turned off (on all Surfaces)... It's a commonly-used practice. So that was why I saw no issue on my characters.
    2) These tattoo presets should've added gray-scale specualar maps to Dual Lobe slots accordingly in this case, however, when this tattoo product was made, Dual Lobe layer had not been introduced into Iray Ubler shader...so ~~

    I don't think ShanasSoulmate will update these products,  but as users, we can just assign the maps correctly by ourselves.

    Besides, I have no idea why editing the maps in Ps worked on your side... It didn't make sense if you'd changed no propertie values on relevant surfaces but then it worked with just a modified texture map...

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    SNAG-2024-4-16 006.png
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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • gfdamron1gfdamron1 Posts: 151

    This has been a very interesting troubleshooting process. Thanks for sharing the developments. I'm away from my mother ship right now, but when I return I'm going to check to see if my JASA characters have the same settings for their skin.

  • crosswind said:

    Right, with a JASA character, I could reproduce the issue. But I found that the culprit was not the tattoo texture maps themselves but LIE layers added to Glossy Layered Weight as well as Top Coat Weight. If setting the maps to none on those two layers (only having values matters...), there'll be no issue... as shown in the attached screenshots.

    1) Since JASA's characters use Dual Lobe Specular layers, Glossy Layered should've been turned off (on all Surfaces)... It's a commonly-used practice. So that was why I saw no issue on my characters.
    2) These tattoo presets should've added gray-scale specualar maps to Dual Lobe slots accordingly in this case, however, when this tattoo product was made, Dual Lobe layer had not been introduced into Iray Ubler shader...so ~~

    I don't think ShanasSoulmate will update these products,  but as users, we can just assign the maps correctly by ourselves.

    Besides, I have no idea why editing the maps in Ps worked on your side... It didn't make sense if you'd changed no propertie values on relevant surfaces but then it worked with just a modified texture map...

    You win the Sherlock award for the day! This certainly is a much easier fix than doing everything in photoshop.... which I think worked becuase it doesn't deal with all the settings that daz has to deal with. I just took the skin, added the tat, then manually placed it on the character. There was no clashing settings. But, yeah, the gloss setting was the culprit! Thank you!

     

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  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 4,832

    You're welcome ! yes

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