"Hide Selected" does not work anymore as it used to
Rhian-Skyblade
Posts: 223
Hello everyone,
having been in a long hiatus (almost 1,5 years if not more).
Now I installed myself the latest Carrara 8.5 Pro and also the latest DazStudio 4.8 - so I can use the Genesis stuff. (Genesis 2 Male)
I always loved the option, that I can hide selected parts of a mesh (Figure - like Michael 4 and Clothes). Either selected by shading domain or carefully mouse-picked manually.
Sometimes, especially male clothes, do not really fit well - even with the auto fit tool. Somethings peeks through as soon as you pose your character. That's where hiding body parts like legs, upper arms and feet came in handy. Also it enabled me to mix and match various clothes and even combine them - because I could hide unwanted parts of those clothes and add something different.
That no longer works. I can still hide them in the modeller room. But in the Assembly room and also in the Render-Result the hidden parts are there - not hidden at all. Do I miss something here??? Is there an extra option I need to check? Or can I not hide parts of Genesis 2 stuff anymore?
Has anyone an idea why the Hide does not have any effect on the assembly room or in the final rendering?
I know I can use check box to hide body parts - but that doesn't help me when I need to go about it a bit more detailed by selecting the polygons/areas by hand myself. Especially working with Clothes... there I can mostly only work by handpicking the polygons I want to hide myself.
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Comments
HI :)
Have a look at a new no poke through plugin which is being developed by Philemo
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/67410/nopokethrough-plugin-alpha-version-available-for-testing#latest
(IMO) the option to hide polys in the Vertex modeller should be a "visual aid" for modelling, and nothing more... it shouldn't effect the actual display of the model in the 3D view or when it's rendered... that said,. I'm also aware that's not how carrara has been working.
The Assembly room should be the place to set object visibility to the renderer.... that's' why the Visibility option for objects is there.
In the Vertex modeller you can select polys, create a new shading domain for those, and make the shader alpha that should allow you to reach the same goal.
Nice to see ya back :)
Thank you 3DAge :)
Fells good to be back, after such a long time. Finally no more exams breathing down my necks, and keeping me from being creative.
Though, it's really weird.
In the Pre 8.5 Carrara I used exactly this hide Option via Vertex Modelling to get unwanted stuff out of the way, without messing up the mesh/morphs, and it was usually all I had to do for it not to show in the rendering. Too bad, it was really cool to use for that intention as well.
In 8.5, parts that you hide in the vertex modeller will stay visible until you save and reload the object.
(pain in the butt till I figured out what was happening - next day when I restarted Carrara, half my model had vanished!)
Thank you TangoAlpha :)
You mean saving and reloading the carrara scene itself, right?
I will try that. Looks almost like a bug to me. And I also noticed, it mainly happens to the Smart Content. I did what I always did with the old Poser Content and there it worked instantly.
I think I am going to file a bug report.
Be careful, I'm using 8.1 , sometimes I hide geometry and I can't make it visible again
Reload the Carrara scene. But you could also save the individual object to the browser and reload from there.
It seems that 8.5 just ignores the visibility setting when switching from the model room, but honours it when reading it from disk. I suspect you're right that it's a bug.
Head wax: I've never experienced that, except when I made something "invisible" by accidentally deleting it.
yes deleting does make it reasonably invisable ;)
the hidden polys has happened several times to me, I cant get them back.
They are still there because if I export t he figures mesh as an obj, then reimport it then the mesh is whole again. Not that that helps.
Actually, it is supposed to work as 3dage has said, but for rigged models (especially Poser rigged models) there was a "bug" that hid the hidden geometry in the Assembly room and renders. If you still have an older version of Carrara, such as 7.2 or 8.1, then give it a try with a non-rigged model. You can hide polys in the VM, but they are visible in the Assembly room and renders. It is really a modeling tool to get stuff out of the way without actually altering the model.
I'm going to have one of my rare, but respectful disagreements with 3dage on this one. I think it is extremely useful for fixing poke through- More so than painting an alpha channel or creating a shading domain for and alpha channel shader. There are also other reasons to want to hide geometry besides poke through. Another reason is that some effects create artifacts when intersecting alphas, such as volumetrics, or using soft shadows and a shadow catcher. Then there is the fact that many render passes don't respect alpha channels and display the full geometry, and if the portion of the mesh you want hidden sticks out, such as part of an arm or leg, that could mean additional time painting out the portion you want hidden in your image editor if you're using render passes.
This image hides a portion of the leg, but the area does not match up to the shading domain seam, so I hid the polys instead. It made creating the DOF with the depth pass much easier. Far superior to using an alpha channel shader in my opinion.
I haven't had headwax's issue either. Must be an Australian bug. ;-P
Unfortunately it appeared that this rather useful bug was squashed by C8.5, but if what Tango says is true and works consistently, I would be very happy!
...and you've tried (in the VM) View > Reveal hidden vertices?
I feel the pain, Rhian. I love using that feature. A new workflow that I've been adapting is to use the 3D Paint tool to create an Alpha painting right within the working window which hides whatever I paint black (over a white background). Or I can start with a black background (making everything invisible) and paint white anything that I want to show. Which ever process works better for what I'm doing.
Like I had shirt tails on a shirt that I converted from Genesis to Genesis 2 Male and then to Genesis 2 Female from that. The shirt tails would not hide enough into the jeans I was using. So I select Actor of the shirt (Model for pre-Genesis) and click the 3D Paint tool and set about making an Alpha channel map. In this case I set the background fill of the new texture to White, leaving everything visible. Then I set my brush to whatever might work best for what I need, and paint the invisible parts almost as easily as it was to go in and select the polys I wanted gone. After doing this for the first time, I started to see how I can easily add tatter and dirt to stuff in no time at all!
heh, heh, yes I have, thanks Dart, :) Is there another way to reveal hidden vertices ?
you guys know we are 'special' already without needsing to have our own bugs ;)
and we got BIG bugs....
we dont have bugs because of me mate, he scares them all off, he watches me iron my shirt in the mornings from this ballustrade, we get on very well..... he stays on the outside, me on the inside :)O(
I've always prefered to use 3d paint on the alpha channel instead of hiding vertices. it's more precise and it can be, in a way, animated with layer list or multichannel mixer.
The main reason why I used the hide option in the modelling room was, because I could not delete unwanted polygons of Figures/Characters. And if I somehow managed to remove something - it messed up the whole mesh including the morphs.
http://rhian-skyblade.deviantart.com/art/Fallout-4-Welcome-To-My-World-579630178 For this scene I had to pick apart several things like that bandoleer, the belt/sash, the vest and some parts of the pants.
Thanks Dartanbeck! I will try that painting thing to hide suff I do not want in my rendering. I just hope it also won't cast shadows. Had that in the past. That's why I used the vertex room for that ^^
A litte rant here from my side - there are simply not enough decent clothes (I mean full clothes, not Barbarian half naked style) for Genesis 2 Male that also have decent morphs/parameter setups for movement and poses. Most converter / cross dresser don't work properly. Wasted a lot money and time here. The females get the better and more epic looking detailed clothes with the better movement / pose morphs. I just wonder why males do not sell that well and why everyone goes mostly for females.
With Genesis 2,. and daz Studio (for the transfer utility) ..Carrara users can now model thier own clothing, then export as OBJ, and the make that obj into conforming clothing in DS using the transfer utility
RE: content for male genesis and genesis 2 figures. Might be interested in the following thread in the commons.
http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/65357/the-male-content-creation-mutual-support-group-thread#latest
Thank you both. I will look that up. It's really annoying how little there is.
He's gorgeous! But I doubt very much that he eats bugs ;)
EDIT: Oh... pardon me. He doesn't eat them, he scares them away! Good mate, Mate! ;)
It doesn't cast shadows of the invisible parts. It works the same way, except through the shader, not the mesh. Works great - it just takes practice to get the entire part you want hidden painted. You end up having to rotate your view a lot to get all of those pesky polygons! LOL But perseverance pays off.
Agreed. The thing is that the males came out quite a bit later than the females, and then came Genesis 3. That's my main reason for still investing more into Generation 4 figure's support items. I find it much easier to find what I'm looking for. But I have found some cool stuff for Genesis 2 males and females and bought them, others still sit in my wishlist.
3dage makes a strong point, however. In my video on the process (click below), I'm actually using a model made for something else and apapting it to Genesis 2 for sake of just showing what to do with the completed model. So using this workflow, it's actually quite simple to convert clothing yourself (rather than auto-fit) from anything else to fit Genesis 2, and then conform to it. Genesis 1 is trickier if you need to go from female clothing to a female Genesis, because Genesis 1 defaults as a male, adding an extra bit of a learning curve to the whole process... but I still like it. Genesis 1 is awesome because it is unisex. I bought a lot of Monster type products for it and a bunch of other stuff, just to add to the immense variety of morphs. So I can make Bill turn into a werewolf, then a gorilla, before finally ending up as Sally, for example, and Carrara's awesome Texture room lets me animate the textures to suit! :)
Here's my tutorial video:
- click to watch -
Yeah, here's the Genesis 2 Female I was working on.
The shirt is Hongyu's shirt for V5. Although it was made for V5, V5 is a Genesis 1 character, so to convert the shirt manually (instead of using Auto-Fit), I loaded in Genesis 2 Male, removed the rigging (Animation > Detach Skeleton) from the shirt, kept the shirt model and deleted the rest.
Next I fit the shirt to Genesis 2 Male, which wasn't difficult. Using the male was much easier because Genesis 1 defaults to a male shape, even if its intended target shape was something else. This sort of complication is likely why they've decided to do away with the unisex idea for Genesis 2 and so on.
Anyways, after shaping the shirt to fit G2M nicely I exported it as an OBJ file and used the transfer utility in DS Pro to turn it into a conforming shirt for G2M, which is a really slick process. But how did I get it to fit G2F? That's where this whole idea came from in the first place! I saw a video tutorial on using the Genesis 2 Cross-Figure Resource Kit and I knew I just had to have this thing. As a matter of fact, I bought that shirt with the intention of converting it to my G2F character in the first place. What it does is to calculate the fit-to between the default male and female shapes for you and then processes a morph target for you! So cool! So when I was done using the Cross-Figure I had a version of that shirt with a morph dial on it that changes it from a male shirt to a female shirt. The morph-following technology of the Genesis 2 figures take care of the rest.
I haven't used this character for quite some time, as I was waiting for more support products to be made, but I think that, after all of that, I set the morph all the way on, exported as OBJ preserving that shape, and made a new conforming model that was made for G2F, so that it would be easier for me to make morphs for it.
Well doing all of that gets rid of any original ,orphs that the item had originally, but that's okay. I was beginning to realize that it was going to take some time to make a morph to tuck the shirt tails in - time that I didn't have at the time - so I used the 3D Paint tool to tuck them in using alpha - and here is the result. Works great!
Wow. I've forgotten how much work I've already put into messing around with this whole transfer utility business. This is an image I made showing some of my earlier work:
we dont have bugs because of me mate, he scares them all off, he watches me iron my shirt in the mornings from this ballustrade, we get on very well..... he stays on the outside, me on the inside :)O(
he's good because he eats the opossums,
sorry to dig up this old thread, just started on 8.5 and found this hide vertex etc doesnt work,
at least the answere is here
thanks Tango alpha et al