Having trouble with "underboob" clothing fit on buxom models.

I have Fit Control for both Gen 2F and 3F. But even with this tool, I'm having a hell of a time trying to get the clothing to "make a straight line" from the tip of the breast to the waist unless the model has small breasts. With shirts and one piece swimsuits, the clothing wants to tuck up under the breast. Is there any other way to get around this? Thanks!

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Comments

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567

    It's very hard. I've had good results with Fit Control, but it takes a lot of work.

     

    If you can find the right outfits, dynamic clothing can do a far better job... provided you are willing to do the backflips to get draping working right. ;)

     

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

     With shirts and one piece swimsuits, the clothing wants to tuck up under the breast. Is there any other way to get around this? Thanks!

    Custom fitting morphs...basically you need to take the item into a modelling program and create a custom morph.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567
    edited December 2015
    Another option is NOT using autofit. Just copy the pose to the outfit, scale a bit, and then use collision to manage pokethrough. Difficult, but possibly better. Another another option is to use supersuit or ultrasuit, fit clothing to the suit, and adjust it more. (Although from my experiments, this approach handles underboob poorly)
    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • There are some other clothing helpers too such as these for eg.:


    http://www.daz3d.com/clothing-breast-fixes-for-genesis-2-female

    I have this and was a little underwhelmed with the results, I've had much more success with Fit Control with the exception of underboob!

    Thanks for all the input, at least it's good to hear I'm not the only one with this problem.

  • Yeah, I bring it into Lightwave (because that's what I use) and fix it. The helpers don't seem to do a good job. The worst part is that DAZ often completely distorts that part of the clothing. It bends in over itself and seems to pull back upwards which is the opposite of what is needed. Untangling that can be a challenge even in modeling software. Would need a sort of tension plugin in DAZ, but I guess that's what dynamic clothing was meant for. A tension plugin would be useful for many other things too. And gravity. My kingdom for gravity.

    I wonder if I could create my own geoshell using heat shrink and then setting the collision on that. It'd be useful for glutes as well. I might try that sometime. Actually, I'm gonna try it right now.

     

     

     

     

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986

    There are some other clothing helpers too such as these for eg.:


    http://www.daz3d.com/clothing-breast-fixes-for-genesis-2-female

    I have this and was a little underwhelmed with the results, I've had much more success with Fit Control with the exception of underboob!

    Thanks for all the input, at least it's good to hear I'm not the only one with this problem.

    Depends all what's happening ... my usual method for solving problems in this area is to bridge it over to Hexagon and whip up a morph.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567

    Another thing I've tried is getting a good corset or similar item to essentially do the work for me and either fit the item to the corset, or set the corset as collision item of the outfit. It's not perfect, buuut...

    Here's an example of using a corset: http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Ultrasuit-corset-test-SabaWefa-BeforeAfter-560073260

    And here's a progression I made struggling to avoid stupid underboobage:

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Dreamer-s-key-553645080

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Dreamer-s-Key2-556469884 (using dynamic)

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Dreamer-s-Key3-556718879 (conformer clothing from 1, set to collide with hidden dynamic from 2)

     

  • Another thing I've tried is getting a good corset or similar item to essentially do the work for me and either fit the item to the corset, or set the corset as collision item of the outfit. It's not perfect, buuut...

    Here's an example of using a corset: http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Ultrasuit-corset-test-SabaWefa-BeforeAfter-560073260

    And here's a progression I made struggling to avoid stupid underboobage:

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Dreamer-s-key-553645080

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Dreamer-s-Key2-556469884 (using dynamic)

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Dreamer-s-Key3-556718879 (conformer clothing from 1, set to collide with hidden dynamic from 2)

     

    This looks very good. I need to read it more carefully tomorrow and see if I can start getting better results. This is a real problem. Even if you just want to use something from an earlier period before a particularly busty character was released (say Olympia g2f). 

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,234

    you all think its normal that the customer has to repair ?

    why not saying

    PA do your job

    and i know there are some PAs who do it right

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 3,276
    Ruphuss said:

    you all think its normal that the customer has to repair ?

    why not saying

    PA do your job

    and i know there are some PAs who do it right

    PAs can add some custom morphs to their clothes but they'll never be able to support all existing morphs (if only because some of them will not have been released yet when they created their clothing), let alone all possible morphs combinations...

  • I, too, have tales of woe about clothes tucking up under the breasts of my large-chested characters. This really stinks for me because most of my characters have large breasts upon which gravity acts significantly. :p

    I have tried with some success to use Fit Control for G2F and G3F to combat underboob cling. If you look at the latest posts on the Fit Control for G3F thread, you can see where I shared my recipe for a fix and asked Zev0 for help. He screencapped his results, which are an improvement, but not particularly realistic. However, I'm linking in case they help someone else. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/64749/fit-control-for-genesis3-commercial#latest

    Will [I keep wanting to call you Timmins. :p ] -- can you give some more details about how you fit the nightgown in Dreamer's Key? That's exactly the sort of effect I want -- i.e., the fabric falling straight down from the tops of the breasts without scooting under. Did you use Daz Studio dynamic cloth? Or did you do a clothification in Poser, then an export, then an import into Daz Studio to use the obj as a collision? Also what does "conformer clothing from 1" mean?

    --MW

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,234
    Leana said:
    Ruphuss said:

    you all think its normal that the customer has to repair ?

    why not saying

    PA do your job

    and i know there are some PAs who do it right

    PAs can add some custom morphs to their clothes but they'll never be able to support all existing morphs (if only because some of them will not have been released yet when they created their clothing), let alone all possible morphs combinations...

    "PAs can add some custom morphs to their clothes"

    thats what i am talking about

    and for me thats includes that the garment doesnt look like wet

  • Ruphuss said:

    you all think its normal that the customer has to repair ?

    why not saying

    PA do your job

    and i know there are some PAs who do it right

    I do agree that many content creator take the easy way out and let autofit "just work" even if the results are often terrible on even base morphs, but what can we do? Even stuff that DAZ purchases and sells as DAZ Originals are often affected by this even on base morphs. There are certain folks who I always buy from for various reasons and this is one of them, but even then, if it's support for a character like Olympia, whose breasts are definitely bigger than the base figure's, we can't expect them to constantly go back and update each of their items that were released before the figure or morph set was released. 

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567
    Will [I keep wanting to call you Timmins. :p ] -- can you give some more details about how you fit the nightgown in Dreamer's Key? That's exactly the sort of effect I want -- i.e., the fabric falling straight down from the tops of the breasts without scooting under. Did you use Daz Studio dynamic cloth? Or did you do a clothification in Poser, then an export, then an import into Daz Studio to use the obj as a collision? Also what does "conformer clothing from 1" mean?

    --MW

    At one point I played an RPG where I played myself (in a WORLD GONE WRONG) and had to use an alias. The other players helpfully suggested Till Wimmins.

     

    Anyhoo... image #2 is a dynamic outfit. Amusingly, it was actually the burqa freebie from the Optitex 'big bin of freebies.' ( http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php )

    Note that you can use dynamic outfits without paying any cash, though the control panel (which I ended up buying) gives you some very useful options.

    Then, what I did in image #3, is put the outfit from #1 (which is a conforming outfit, IE: what 99% of the clothing we have is, that autofits). I don't remember, now, whether I didn't bother fitting it to the character; I may have just copied the pose over, adjusted it to be mostly right, and then set it to collide with the dynamic outfit.

    This had the benefit of 'pushing' the regular nightgown (which had some material zones I wanted to preserve) to the shape of the dynamic outfit. Basically, best of both worlds... the smooth curves of dynamic draping, and the design of conforming clothes. Then I made the dynamic outfit not visible.

    But, of course, it's not quite that simple. Because of the collision, you'll note that in image 3, near the neck the clothes sort of 'hover' a little above her skin. It also looks a little odd and folds in various parts, like near her breasts. Now, I think that looks reasonably realistic as thicker cloth rather than something sheer. And if I had played with it more I could probably fix those things.

    The other, potentially more important, problem is the buttons. The original outfit has these cool pearl buttons. However, layered clothing (where you have different clothing elements on top of one another) does VERY poorly with collision, because the collision operates on distance. So the lower levels of the clothing tend to push through upper levels. In this case, half the buttons had cloth clipping through them, so I ended up just hiding the buttons.

    This is more of a problem with suits. I tried to fit the Debonair suit ( http://www.daz3d.com/a-gentleman-s-wardrobe ) to a large-breasted woman, and... wow. Terrible. ;) Even with Fit Control, it's EXTREMELY hard to avoid texture shearing and so on, and collision made for really horrible results with pockets and buttons.

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567
    edited December 2015

    Reflecting on it again, I think if I were going to do an A-class render of the woman in the nightgown, I'd go with just the dynamic outfit and attempt to recreate the look with a texture pattern. And if I wanted the pearl buttons, just add them by hand. (IE: place spheres carefully along the middle.)

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,234

    we would not get better standards in clothing if we do not complain about it here and there

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567

    Not all complaints have equal merit.

     

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
     

    Anyhoo... image #2 is a dynamic outfit. Amusingly, it was actually the burqa freebie from the Optitex 'big bin of freebies.' ( http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php )

    Note that you can use dynamic outfits without paying any cash, though the control panel (which I ended up buying) gives you some very useful options.

    Something that is seldom mentioned, but is in that big bin of freebies are the cloth presets.  They give one some of the options of the full plugin...as far as being able to change the type of cloth.  And they work quite nicely in the included free pluggin.

  • RuphussRuphuss Posts: 2,234

    Not all complaints have equal merit.

     

    sorry i do not understand the meaning of this

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001

    One of the ways that I fix the problem is to do a cloth sim in Blender.  Not all clothing is not able to do a diecent drape in Blender, but most t-shirts and t-shirt like items will be fine.

  • At one point I played an RPG where I played myself (in a WORLD GONE WRONG) and had to use an alias. The other players helpfully suggested Till Wimmins.

    Bwah hah! [Sonorous trailer voice: "IN A WORLD..."]

     

    Anyhoo... image #2 is a dynamic outfit. Amusingly, it was actually the burqa freebie from the Optitex 'big bin of freebies.' ( http://www.optitex-dynamiccloth.com/FreebieDownload01.php )

    Note that you can use dynamic outfits without paying any cash, though the control panel (which I ended up buying) gives you some very useful options.

    Then, what I did in image #3, is put the outfit from #1 (which is a conforming outfit, IE: what 99% of the clothing we have is, that autofits). I don't remember, now, whether I didn't bother fitting it to the character; I may have just copied the pose over, adjusted it to be mostly right, and then set it to collide with the dynamic outfit.

    This had the benefit of 'pushing' the regular nightgown (which had some material zones I wanted to preserve) to the shape of the dynamic outfit. Basically, best of both worlds... the smooth curves of dynamic draping, and the design of conforming clothes. Then I made the dynamic outfit not visible.

    But, of course, it's not quite that simple. Because of the collision, you'll note that in image 3, near the neck the clothes sort of 'hover' a little above her skin. It also looks a little odd and folds in various parts, like near her breasts. Now, I think that looks reasonably realistic as thicker cloth rather than something sheer. And if I had played with it more I could probably fix those things.

    The other, potentially more important, problem is the buttons. The original outfit has these cool pearl buttons. However, layered clothing (where you have different clothing elements on top of one another) does VERY poorly with collision, because the collision operates on distance. So the lower levels of the clothing tend to push through upper levels. In this case, half the buttons had cloth clipping through them, so I ended up just hiding the buttons.

    This is more of a problem with suits. I tried to fit the Debonair suit ( http://www.daz3d.com/a-gentleman-s-wardrobe ) to a large-breasted woman, and... wow. Terrible. ;) Even with Fit Control, it's EXTREMELY hard to avoid texture shearing and so on, and collision made for really horrible results with pockets and buttons.

     

    I've shied away from Daz dynamic clothing, as I always thought that one needed to buy expensive plugins. Hmmmm. I did not know that the freebies could have some use without the whole plugin.

     

    --MW

  • I tried creating a custom shell to get the shape I want, but I forgot it's almost impossible to rig the clothing/shell properly unless it's the default figure using the default pose using no morphs. There's gotta be a way to rig and apply weight maps on a figure with morphs, but I can't figure it out atm. Also, I doubt setting collision to the shell would solve anything. Fixing the original item seems the way to go for now. I'm gonna give it another shot as I'm likely to learn something in my many failures. lol.

     

     

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567

    It's at least worth experimenting with the free stuff, though if you end up liking it, I highly recommend the plugin.

    At first it looks very daunting, but one thing to remember is that most of the outfits have a rigged thing within the outfit that you can use to pose and scale the item to fit in the general shape of what you are shooting for. (Most of the outfits will autofit, but only to V4 or something, which 99% of the time isn't something I want, at least)

     

  • HanabiHanabi Posts: 346

    You can also set your figure's shape to that of V4, if you have the right morph thingies, then on frame 5, set your real character morph, then on frame 25 set your desired pose, and run an animated drape, similar to how you'd do it in Poser.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    Hanabi said:

    You can also set your figure's shape to that of V4, if you have the right morph thingies, then on frame 5, set your real character morph, then on frame 25 set your desired pose, and run an animated drape, similar to how you'd do it in Poser.

    There is a bunch of fun things you can do with animated drapes...and for the most part, they don't take that much, if any longer to run.  Also, if you are doing a still shot, you can freeze the drape at the end. 

  • AlienRendersAlienRenders Posts: 648
    edited December 2015

    I tried the custom shell again. It kinda works. But you still need a modeler program. The advantage here is that once the shell is built, you can use it on multiple clothing items. There is one downside. It seems to only work with low cut outfits. The problem is that all the polygons in the center of the chest just get pushed forward and they all get jumbled up. But you can replicate the original figure in that area I suppose and try using one of the plugins available to fix that part.

    The example in the pic was done quickly on "little black dress". First figure in screenshot shows what you get by default.

    You then build a shell for the shape you want in a modeling program and fit it onto the character as shown in the third figure. Import obj, use transfer tool from G3F to item. Use morph loader on same obj (itself) to restore shape. Set morph to 100%. Oh, and use zero pose from beginning to end.

    Make the shell invisible.

    Set the clothing item's collision item to your shell. Set smoothing iterations to 10 or so. Use Generic smoothing. Done. Result is the second (center) figure. Looks like I messed up the area near the armpit though. Oh well.

    This was very easy to do. I have a nice shrink wrap plugin in Lightwave to do this (not the built in one). So I'll probably reuse this technique again and not just for tops. So if you can find another piece of clothing that has the proper shape and can substitute for the shell, that might work too.

     

    PalomaRedDressNet3.png
    1920 x 1080 - 947K
    Post edited by AlienRenders on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,567

    Yeah, that's what I was doing with 'ultra bodysuit' in corset mode. Provided a shell to adjust.

    Texture warping is going to happen, but that's true even with just autofit -- there's only so much it can do to try to pull one shape around another (at which point you start looking at other programs, UV, painting, etc)

     

  • CausamCausam Posts: 28

     

    Ruphuss said:

    you all think its normal that the customer has to repair ?

    why not saying

    PA do your job

    and i know there are some PAs who do it right

    Old thread, I know, but I agree and as a budding PA (not on DAZ yet, I am cutting my teeth over at CGBytes before I join the big leagues) it is an obsession of mine to figure out the right way to adjust for the things that DS doesn't handle well, this large breast issue being one of them.  Stay tuned.

  • ebergerlyebergerly Posts: 2,384
    edited January 2
    I strongly recommend using something like the VWD cloth sim shrink/scale feature to quickly make this issue go away, as well as improve fit all around.
    Post edited by ebergerly on
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