What happened daz?!

Why? Why does daz/tafi let assets like hexagon just die?
They paid for it!
How about a return on investment ?
Don’t see them buying it to kill it, makes no sense.
Yes, yes blender (learning curb is high at times).
Did they loose the working environment?

Comments

  • Perhaps it was the return on investment - there wasn't enough to support further development. A lot of 3D modellers have fallen by the wayside.

  • artxtapartxtap Posts: 151

    True....but if they own the software and can make it so people can actually make things or morphs, etc.., whatever and do it a lot easier then in blender in the end that will (‘should’) benefit them in sales(in theory) of said items ( yeah that’s a BIG [BIG!]leap I know!)(if said items were to sold on daz and not other ‘markets’).

     Most Unfortunately I think I see your and their point…:-(

    still they have an asset, they don't know how to mined

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,845

    So you propose to lock users in and cut the biggest PAs, who all use industry standard software, loose by forcing them to either switch to Hexagon or not publish. Yeah, I can't see that backfiring. At all.

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871

    Updating software is a huge expense keeping up with the "Jones".  IMO, DAZ/Tafi have their hands full with DS.

    Am very grateful they maintain a bridge to DS for those who still use for ultra quick morph-making.
    Have figured out better how to sculpt and delaying memory issue for quite a while.

    So wouldn't describe as dead, just as quite functional.
    Higher end Tuts for attenuate - mirroring are out there still and relevant today as then.
    But updating regularily like Blender or Zbrush with their huge base and funding would require probably a whole new team/approach & funding.

    If they would not have made the 64bit beta, then I might agree more that it's dead.
    As for future, we'll see.

  • NovaNova Posts: 226
    edited February 23

    @ Why? Why does daz/tafi let assets like hexagon just die?
    They paid for it!
    How about a return on investment ?
    Don’t see them buying it to kill it, makes no sense.
    Yes, yes blender (learning curb is high at times).
    Did they loose the working environment?

     

    Hexagon will gradually die out, very few people even know that this program exists. The new generation is growing up with Blender and if I had more time, I would do the same.

    DAZ missed a great opportunity here. They had 3 horses in steel and should have focused on one thing instead, it's more nostalgia to work with Hexagon.
    Do I recommend it in the meantime?

    NO, but hey.... Anyone who wants to sell 3D models has no interest in people being able to create them themselves.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 7,684

    I still use Hexagon even today.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 13,708

    A great majority of PAs use 3DS Max, Modo, Silo or Blender. I can only think of 1 off-hand that even used Hexagon. More and more are switching to Blender since it's free and does a lot of what the other apps do because subscriptions are getting to be far too expensive for the return we are getting anymore with everything going on in the world atm. Everybody is spending less cause they have less to spend with inflation. It's not their fault just the way it is atm.

  • ProtozoonProtozoon Posts: 552

    FirstBastion said:

    I still use Hexagon even today.

    Yep. Me too. Like my Roman Legionary Outfit is made (except the tunica and the scarf - Marvelous Designer) in Hex.

    -P-

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    edited February 24

    used and enjoyed PA Arki's series way back when i started to learn Hex
    https://www.daz3d.com/submerged-inside-hexagon-and-daz-studio--bundle

    this is screenshot below of Hexagon Tuts available today 2024 Feb23.

     

    frank0314 said:

    A great majority of PAs use 3DS Max, Modo, Silo or Blender. I can only think of 1 off-hand that even used Hexagon. More and more are switching to Blender since it's free and does a lot of what the other apps do because subscriptions are getting to be far too expensive for the return we are getting anymore with everything going on in the world atm. Everybody is spending less cause they have less to spend with inflation. It's not their fault just the way it is atm.

    overall agree with most things you have posted over years. This one time will say first reaction was this is kinda a "chicken vs egg"  discussion.  As for costs - have totally agreed with that when started here at Daz.

    Seems also most people prefer MeshGrabber.  That's like a swiss army knife vs real professional tools (Hexagon and other 3d apps).  Tried mesh-grabber. Tried Blender for a year.

    So Glad there are alternatives like Hex.  Even with a few people trying to pass it off as out of vogue not contemporray.  Like all of humanity should follow the other herds? Ah, no.

    Hexagon bridge and all the tools like soft selection and smoothing sculpt and mirroring  in Hexagon is just first rate.  Will enjoy this variety while it is available. 

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    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • NovaNova Posts: 226
    edited February 27

    @  So Glad there are alternatives like Hex.  Even with a few people trying to pass it off as out of vogue not contemporray.  Like all of humanity should follow the other herds? Ah, no.

    Hexagon bridge and all the tools like soft selection and smoothing sculpt and mirroring  in Hexagon is just first rate.  Will enjoy this variety while it is available. 

     

    We are a few people and have been working with Hexagon for a long time because it is simple and efficient, and we will continue to do so because we love working with it. / I like retro stuff anyway
    However, when things get tricky, you have to improvise a lot to get results.

    The main reason why we recommend newbies to switch to Blender is the following.

    A.
    The developers have not updated Hexagon for years, they do not respond to support requests, you have no one to report problems to, let alone a reasonable support for the software, you are on your own.

    B.
    The export of models from Hexagon outside of DAZ to large market-leading renderers proves to be incompatible and faulty in some cases.
    Although you can compensate for this by using tricks that involve extra work, is this still up to date today?

    Work with reflections and the Boolean tools in Hexagon and then use these models in Lumion, Octane, Twinmotion or Unreal, you will see what I mean and what I am talking about. There are no exporter plugins for Hexagon .... Hexagon is insignificant for them. It's sad that so much potential of a good software is forgotten here. Something great could have been created here.

     

    Working with Hexagon for 15 years

    Current project _ Hexagon after Unreal

     

     

    _ 24.12.2024 / MA

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    Post edited by Nova on
  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 9,890
    edited February 24

    They stopped updating, Hexagon, Bryce and Carrara all within a relatively short timeframe after DS 4.5 was released, I think that is when they started working on DS 5.

    There are financial benefits in owning software, even if one seems to have abandoned it - The technology can be used in developing other software, nobody outside Daz knows what, if anything has been copied over to DS 5.

    Post edited by PerttiA on
  • I very much doubt it had anythging to do with DS 5, and hexagon did receive some additional work later. As I recall it was after 2008ish, which date might ring a bell or two.

  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,845

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I very much doubt it had anythging to do with DS 5, and hexagon did receive some additional work later. As I recall it was after 2008ish, which date might ring a bell or two.

    Indeed. What people keep desperately ignoring is that the market for entry and mid-level 3D software collapsed.

  • RaytownmikeRaytownmike Posts: 61
    edited February 28

    Ascania said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    I very much doubt it had anythging to do with DS 5, and hexagon did receive some additional work later. As I recall it was after 2008ish, which date might ring a bell or two.

    Indeed. What people keep desperately ignoring is that the market for entry and mid-level 3D software collapsed.

    This last comment makes a great deal of sense to me. I started doing 3D, 20 years ago and thoses apps were considered starter apps. Over time more and more 3D appss evolved got more sofisticated and expensive. However the development of these apps were created to get more sopisticated in order to become more professional. It was not the objective of these companies to be the educators of 3D. The objective was to continue to develope the apps to provide greater tools and methods for professinals to create thier work. The opportunities for the world of 3D just may lie in an educationsl system that can work effectively to get students up to speed and make a transistion from a beginner phase to a more advanced state moving towards the goal of a professional level. Having said this, I doubt that a formal educational system/school may not be in the cards. This leaves the work to students to educate them selves, it won't be easy.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 1,217
    edited March 12

    I am still lagging behind and I usually don't post (what are probably, to advanced users) my inane questions. I'm open to registering something like a "Hexagon Beginners" domain - how about "hexbegin dot net" in which I would run an open source forum software like phpBB.

    Again so as not to clutter the forum with my many questions.

    I had a pleasant experience recently where Hexagon worked quite well "out of the box" on a desktop running Windows 10. Big screen, boot device is a 480 Gb SSD so blazing speed etc.

    Conversely I had a thing where I downloaded a large number of Blender tutorials to a tablet and then the 64 or 128 Gb micro-SD card failed. Bye bye tutorials until I can dedicate a fresh tablet and/or computer(s) to try and figure out what the heck happened... as I say Hexagon suddenly working has been a big draw, to keep things exactly the way they are.

    Post edited by Roman_K2 on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871

    Nova said : "Working with Hexagon for 15 years "

    To me, your shared renders look near first rate.  Look like they should be in a futuristic game, with maybe 3b not far away. :)
    A rushed comment from me, is they could be more relateable with more characters and story to attract more attention. But perhaps elsewhere or coming later or not part of plan?

    Nova said:

    However, when things get tricky, you have to improvise a lot to get results.

     

    To be honest, i find that to be true with almost all DAZ store assets too.
    They get you 80% of the way there?

    Not a fan at all of the ubiquitous statement "oh just use Blender" unless you add caveats "it's free" and you better like or get used to logic/ui or -too bad.
    Find that there is no 3d app that does - everything well  - for everyone.

    One project for a more extensive UV unwrap used Hex, 3dCoat and Blender (back when still pushing myself to try and find a way to agree with Blender UI/logic).
    Each 3d app with their own strengths.

    So could you buy a 3d app, even if it's for finisishing the models, like model reflections and booleans?  Or does Blender work for you 100%.
    If was a 3d modeller like you, i would probably buy Modo.  
    Having a logic/ui i like would be instantly worth the cost.
    Another person might get 3ds max.  
    But as don't do extensive 3d modelling like you have zero idea if that address your needs.

    As for Daz/Tafi modernizing Hex for that, would guess for reasons, which basically goes back to return on investment, they will not compete with the currently prevalent 3d apps.  
    Guessing even more common focuses like new Hair shader Omni for their SBH products and animations now (Heat) will not exactly be huge money-makers.  Just a guess by me in these tougher market conditions.  So improving 3d modelling that even way fewer users will do, is probably more than just risky in todays current 3d market.  Any decision-maker who has to keep bottom-line in focus just wouldn't do it.  Unless a hugely convincing case can be made.

    Hex is simply awesome for quick morph-making on my newer higher end PC system, -- BUT alot of users have said Hex doesn't work for them.   Why? Don't know.  Are they using 64 bit beta?  Though it seems you are using 32 bit successfully?  So it would seem if you could address this and get more users on board with using Hexagon that would actually help?  That's not for me.  But if you want to increase Hex adoption that seems like a course of action.
    And many just want a quick Mesh-Grabber, though it's pretty "swiss-army knife"-like in result.  Tried it once reading all the "happy user" testimonials on forums.  For me, way too cumbersome and missing way too many features that Hex offers.  Glad it works for them.  Point is though that's the kind of environment that decision-makers are facing; 90%+ users want very easy results (my very debateable guess).

  • Roman_K2Roman_K2 Posts: 1,217

    Saxa -- SD said:

    ... a lot of users have said Hex doesn't work for them.  Why? Don't know.

    Roger that!

    sad

  • mach25mach25 Posts: 256
    edited March 18

    Nova looks great yes

    I recently working on a story,mainly work on it on my tablet while commuting and now I am back trying to create things for the protagonist with my laptop at home

    well I have put renders of hexagon 3d models on my tablets background screen and another one on lockscreen 

    Magnus

     

    Post edited by mach25 on
  • deloquenciadeloquencia Posts: 47
    Maybe a crowd funding campaign could be started to gather money to offer DAZ to open source Hexagon? I am wondering how much they would want and if they would agree upon GPL.
  • AscaniaAscania Posts: 1,845
    edited April 28

    Hexagon is built upon the Amapi codebase. DAZ does not own the copyright to that codebase and does not have the freedom to release it as open source.

    Post edited by Ascania on
  • RaytownmikeRaytownmike Posts: 61

    So I wonder , oh I don't wonder if this is true Hexagon is based on former Amapi makes it FROZEN. Never to be updated?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 98,286

    Raytownmike said:

    So I wonder , oh I don't wonder if this is true Hexagon is based on former Amapi makes it FROZEN. Never to be updated?

    Hexagon was developed by Eovia as a successor to Amapi for polygon modelling, with some of the more advanced non-polygon features being in Amapi Pro. This has no relation to the development history of Hexagon 2+

  • RaytownmikeRaytownmike Posts: 61
    edited May 20

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Raytownmike said:

    So I wonder , oh I don't wonder if this is true Hexagon is based on former Amapi makes it FROZEN. Never to be updated?

    Hexagon was developed by Eovia as a successor to Amapi for polygon modelling, with some of the more advanced non-polygon features being in Amapi Pro. This has no relation to the development history of Hexagon 2+

    So Hexagon maybe being develpped currently?

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 98,286

    Raytownmike said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Raytownmike said:

    So I wonder , oh I don't wonder if this is true Hexagon is based on former Amapi makes it FROZEN. Never to be updated?

    Hexagon was developed by Eovia as a successor to Amapi for polygon modelling, with some of the more advanced non-polygon features being in Amapi Pro. This has no relation to the development history of Hexagon 2+

    So Hexagon maybe being develpped currently?

    That isn't a question I am in a position to answer, my reply was merely correcting some of the history in your post.

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