ToonyCam Pro vs pwToon: Which would you recommend?
L'Adair
Posts: 9,479
I've been wanting to do some comic-style renders for a while, but I've been wary of spending the money on either of these products. And I've tried finding the information I need on the forums using Google's site search. Anyway...
The most pressing questions are:
- How well do they work with DS 4.8?
- Will either one or both work with 4.9 when it's released?
But I also want to know if one works better than the other for specific types of renders, and if so what those are. Things like that.
I'd love to hear from people who have one or the other, or both, and hear what your experinces have been like.
Thanks in advance for your time.
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Comments
I recommend pwToon, it has a lot of features.
If you go with pwToon you should get the Crescent's pwToon Cel Shaders presets:
http://www.sharecg.com/v/69733/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/Crescents-pwToon-Cel-Shaders
And the tutorials:
http://cyonixgfx.deviantart.com/art/pwToon-Tutorial-1-The-Basics-257226861
http://cyonixgfx.deviantart.com/art/pwToon-Tutorial-2-DAZ-Gen-3-257227270
It will help you get started faster, in my opinion.
To understand all of pwToon's features, visit the site:
http://www.poseworks.com/shaders/pwtoon/index.html
pwToon was purchased by DAZ 3D and should be compatible with newer DAZ Studio versions going forward.
Here's a previous discussion I recommend: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/48444/i-m-making-a-sci-fi-series-graphic-novel-script-daz-anphotoshop/
Thank you, nDelphi.
I actually use both! Here's a demo render I did using the Kururu for G2F using both:
https://imgur.com/urJSIk2
That's rendered through toonycam using the pwToon shaders for the hair, though I usually use them for a lot more. It's a pretty low quality render, I just threw it together to show the creator of the morph that it works well. Default everything as far as morphs and surfaces go. That scene is i13's private party (I think?)
Edit: Ah, I'm talking about the pwToon shaders. I use Toonycam pro.
It still looks really good. I picked up pwToon while it was on sale. I may yet get ToonyCam Pro. My biggest concern was which one works best in current versions of DS. I'd read of issues with TCP and later versions of DS. Then Sickleyield and Fuseling came out with their Anime Character Builder which "requires" ToonyCam Pro. That got me wondering if TCP has been updated to work with DS 4.8... hence this thread.
Even though I now have pwToon, I am interested in other people's experience with either products. And I'd love to see more renders!
I keep debating trying out one of these things and moving my webcomic in a more cartoonish direction. Torn between the complex realistic style and something else... but I'm not sure I'd take less time and I worry I'd just enjoy it less.
A somewhat different but related question:
ToonCam Basic was a free PA gift last Chrismas. If I upgrade to ToonyCam Pro, what additional functionality do I gain?
I have Toonycam Pro, I like it cause I can toon-ize backgrounds which takes along time with just a shader set, but I prefer the Visual Style Shaders for toon character renders the most.
Here is a combination image: Link
Regarding ToonyCamPro, I can't say how it works with 4.8 or 4.9, because I am still using 4.5 and 4.6 (works great in both)...
Charlie Judge: The main difference would be the ability to add line work and a black/white shading set with TCP. Great for emulating Anime Cel shading work (In my opinion). Also works with the 3rd party hair modules, Look At My Hair, and Garibaldi Express.
Though, ToonyCam, has the ability for dynaimc shading due to a greyscale texture call system. I haven't explored if this is available in TCP yet. Below are some comparison images; The ninja turtle is ToonyCam, but I added the ink line in post. Both of the other ninja images are straight TCP renders showcasing line work (picking up minute folds in dynamic cloth), cel shading, and the shading set; all highly customizable to your liking. The hair on the composited image is from LAMH, and the composited negative is a straight TCP render as well. Hope this helps...
*EDIT: Don't remember how to make images bigger - hate the way this incarnation of forums work - oh well... (Fixed now)
Please click on images for full size to see details.
It works in 4.8 and I just added it and it works in 4.9. Render from 4.9 attached.
I've tinkered with pwToon, but don't have a clue what I'm doing. I'll post something once I get the hang of it.
Thanks, guys, for the info and the renders.
I don't know if I posted these here before on the forum, but if you want to see more, here are a few renders, all done with pwToon.
These are basically tests, one even has a jet exhaust test. It isn't really easy to create action, but I do try.
I'm curious, has anyone done any comparisons of using Toonycam vs say a regular camera and running it thru Photoshop to "toonize" it?
I've done a LOT of experimenting with filters to make things look like toons, and identified several problems.
The big problem comes down to the difference between subjects in the image and lighting -- there is no way for a filter to 'understand' that the dark bit of that guy's arm is distinct from the dark bit of the background.
Now, there are ways around that -- for one thing, you could be very careful about lighting such that subjects always appear clean and distinct from background (which might be a good idea anyway if you are doing cartoon style).
The other is to use various render widgets to do a 'character/material ID' pass. Then this can be used to break up an image, get some outlines, possibly pull out individual figures to be filtered.
Of course, at that point you're essentially mimicing what some of the toon cameras/shaders are doing anyway, just with a lot more labor.
I "tried" to do some toonifying in photoshop - I think filters can be used if being very particular as Mr Timmins pointed out, I like how the pwToon post @nDelphi put up, nice! Here was my attempt (before and after)
Yes, Novica just did some last week starting at this post. I think she also did some a while back in that same discussion or the previous one.
If you do it with pwToon you are better off converting the photoreal textures to black and white, you can use Photoshop and clean them, if needed, to get just the black lines. Then use the diffuse channel to add the color you want.
Toonifying photoreal textures is always a turn off for me, whether it is done with shaders or with Photoshop. Some like it, I am one of the ones that don't. It just doesn't look right to me.
Your 3D render is awesome. I like it.
nDelphi: I like photoreal, but I think you're bang on wrt textures and toonifying.
One cool manga technique that would be interesting is essentially cutting from patterned sheets (I forget what they are called). So someone might look like they are made of cutouts of various things.
you know theres still the cartoon render option for 3dl
you have to "show hidden proberties"
Just throwing in my $0.02...
I really like pwToon. It offers a bit more control over the toon effect. I have a couple of pwToon renders in my gallery to show what I've done here (http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/59568/), here (http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/86451/), and here (http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/92818/). It takes a bit more work to use pwToon, but I like the results. I really recommend using Crescent's pwToon presets (http://www.sharecg.com/v/69733/favorite/21/DAZ-Studio/Crescents-pwToon-Cel-Shaders) as an excellent starter.
ToonyCam, on the other hand, is really great if you want a toon look without a lot of hassle. If you're using some snazzy 3Delight shaders and want to keep that look, ToonyCam is great. I have one sample in my gallery (http://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#images/16691/) that shows how TC can keep some of the 3Delight shader look.
I'm not trying to drive up traffic to my gallery. I'm just trying to show a couple of samples so you have an idea of what can be done.
You can post the images inline...just drop the gallery link into the image box (the one that looks like a framed landscape on the tool bar of the comment box).
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But a comment on the original intent of this thread...
Neither is better. They do similar things but do them differently enough that both are useful and one may work out easier/better in one situation and the other one in another situation. Sometimes you need a 24 oz framing hammer and sometimes you need a 6 oz tack hammer..
But if you had to get just one, pwToon is probably the one I would get...it's the one with more options.