Issue with some poses after creating a new face morph

Hello,

I created a new face morph by using the Wrap app, and while I use the neutral pose, everything is ok. I was testing different poses to check if it's still ok, but when I appied the Eyes Side-Side pose, one of the eyes seems to go out of it's orbit. Which encouters this issue depends on the side I choose:

Could you tell me how I could fix this issue, please? I have to more push the eyes into the face before to create my new face morph? Though, the eyes don't seems to go out of their orbits when I use the nertral pose, so I would be afraid to make them to much inside the face if I push them...

Thank you in advance for your help!

Comments

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133
    edited December 2023

    Yes, checking Eyeballs / Eyelids related expression dials is a must after converting and importing the character's head morph. For this case, usually there're two ways of fixing them.

    - In Wrap, you use Brush node to fine-tune the eyelids with moving / smoothing. Then re-export to obj. In this way, you don't have to fixe them in DS
    - If fixing them in DS, you fix each eyelid by using Blender (I remember you know how to use Blender sculpting...), then import 2 delta morphs separately and create ERC links with the Eyes Side-Side expression dial and your character head morph dial.

    PS: you may check this thread ... though it was for Eye Blink, but the process is almost the same, and besides you also have to check Eye Blink / Eyes Close - https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/661311/any-way-to-split-a-morph-like-eyeballs/p1

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173
    edited December 2023

    Thank you very much for your answer! laugh To be sure ton understand well, if I want to fix it in Wrap, I have to use the Brush node on the neutral pose I created, not on the Side-Side pose, is it that? And if I want to fix it in Blender, I have to use the sculpting mode directly on the Side-Side pose, right?

    If I try to fix it in Wrap, how could I know that my changes are ok, if I am working on the neutral pose? Would I have to work by trial and error and reimport the morph into DS until it perfecly works?

    Thank you in advance for your reply!

    PS: I made more tests, and this issue happens also for other poses, like the Eyes Crossed pose, not only the Eyes Si-de-Side pose...

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133
    edited December 2023

    - In Wrap, yes, you always use a standard A-pose (let's say G8) to Wrap and never touch the pose ! You link a Brush node to the last node before Exporting and finetune the position of Eyelids (screenshots 1-2)

    - In Ds / Blender, correct!  You export Genesis figure with expression Eyes Side-Side dialed.

    As for testing if the fixed obj in Wrap works well, you may just need a couple of fix and export, not a big deal. It's just a sort of "difference" in between spending more time in Wrap or spending more time in DS/Blender. laugh

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173
    edited December 2023

    Ok, I will try! In facr, if I understand well, I need to make more place for the eyeballs, is it that?

    I also saw there is another issue when I oppen the mouth: there is a sort of shape, I am not sure exactly what it it, that seems to create like a "second tongue". When I wrapped, I made a subset wihout the mouth, and I just translated  the mouth after applying the subset, to fit it to the lips and face, so I don't understand why this issue appears...

      

    Could you help me to fix it, please?

    Thank you in advance!

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    1. Yes, necessarily and sufficiently.

    2. What's your floating geometry - G8 ? G9 ?  Best practice should be - 1) Subset of floating geometry should be without Eyes and Mouth; 2) If there're Eyes and Mouth on the fixed geometry, isolate them as well.

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173
    edited December 2023

    I am using the G8 male  basemesh, and my subset is like that:

    There is no mouth or eye on the subset. After wrapping (without applying the subset), I obtain that (the angle of view is not the same):

    After appliying the subset, I obtain that:

    Then, I had the impression the mouth was a bit ahead compared to the lips, so I made a subset of the mouth, added a transform node to translate and fit the mouth, and applied the transmormed mouth subset. I finally obtained that:

    My subset of the mouth is like that:

        

    Maybe it was a mistake to translate the mouth?

    Thank you in advance for your help!

     

    Edit:

    I have another question: how did you move the eyelids only a little bit? When I try to move it even a little bit, it moves very much and becomes completlu ugly...

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    A couple of suggestions you may try -:

    1. You only need to isolate Eyes and Mouth, leave EyeSocket there. (Screenshot 1)
    2. You didn't post the fixed geometry but also isolate Eyes and Mouth if there're. (Screenshot 2)
    3. In this way, you shouldn't get distortion on Mouth after wrapping. If you still have it, use Brush to fix it or fix it with DS/Blender.

    As for "Moving a little bit", pls refer to this short video clip - https://mega.nz/file/STZyQKAQ#nt-UO2aTGZNWuWQAMaFHtiCYXEv1xMXT0Y5vTVZIlNA

     

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  • Thank you very much! laugh Well, I am surprise because in your video, it seems very simple to move just a little bit, but when I try, it move really very much:

    Here, I barely moved  my mouse, but the result is a very big move... Could it be due to a difference of scale? Since my DS character was quite "small" in Wrap, I needed to zoom pretty much to work, and it seemed to slow down my computer. So, I fit the scale parametter of the loadGeom node to 100, so as to less need to zoom... Could it impact the brush sensibility? Or maybe, could it be because I used only one brush node? (I didn't understand what is the first brush used for...)
    I fit the radius and strenght of the brush to the minimum, but it still moves very much...

    Thank you in advance for your help!

     

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    Oh... I've never seen such an issue. Scaling shouldn't be that reason. I usually set Scale in LoadGeom node to 0.1 otherwise Daz figure will be too big there.

    You post me screenshot of the brush settings or better a video clip ~~ 

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173
    edited December 2023

    Ok, it's the first time I share a video on a forrum, so I hope it will work... I also give you a screenshot of my first settings for the brush, but I tried to modifiy them in the video. Whatever the settings I choosed, the issue was still here...

    https://clipchamp.com/watch/twv39t6oAQM

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133
    edited December 2023

    I've checked the video and screenshot, I don't think there's any issue coming from the settings. It just seems that when you dragged the mouse with only a small distance,  the mesh jumped outside...  I just don't know why. You can try other brushes as well to see if there's the similar issue. If they all behave like this, I guess there maybe some problem with your mouse or mouse driver. You may check the speed settings of your mouse, etc. Or change a mouse to test...

    If this way in Wrap really doesn't work, I'm afraid you have to try the 2nd way in DS/Blender.

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • Thank you very much! laugh I made more tests and it seems it's due to the scale. When I fit the scale to 1 or 10, the brush works correctly, but since I had fitted the scale to 100, it looks like the brush was too strong, even with the radius and strength at their minimal values. Since I need to zoom too much when I fit the scale to 1 or 10, I tried to save my wrapped character as an obj with the scale to 100. Then, I reimported it into Wrap with the scale to 1, but this 1 corresponding to the 100 of the saved mesh. Then, I tried the brush and it seems to work correctly! devil I will try to fix the eyelids in Wrap by this way, I hope it will work...

    About the mouth, I guess I need to make more investigations to understand what happened; for now, I didn't understand what I did wrong with it...

    Thank you very much for your help, anyway! yes

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    OK, more experiments may lead to final success ! yes

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173

    Hi, everyone! I haven't posted on this topic for long because I was very buisy and I have no many time to use DS or Wrap, but I just fixed a part of the issu encountered in my first post:

    I used Wrap to fix the lids that desapeared behind eyes, but, I see the eyesockets desapear too, when I use the Eye side-side pose. Here an example of the G8 male base, on which we can see the eyesocket is still visible.

    So, I would like to have some advice to fix that. Do you think it would be possible to fix that in Wrap? Would it be better to use Blender?
    On the neutral pose, the eyesockets are correctly visible, so I am not sure what would be the better way to fix that...

    Do you think the better way would be to create a neuw morph to fix what happen whith the Eye side-side, or would it be relevent to try to improve the neutral eyes I created?

    Thank you in advance for your advices!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    It's surely possible to fix it in Wrap but mostly like you have to use a VertexMask since the eyesocks are tiny for being moved with a Brush, so a bit cumbersome. If you proficient in Blender, personally suggest you fix it in Blender.

    Don't make a corrective morph for Eye Side-Side, instead, just create a "fix morph" for eyesockets, dial it and lock it, before Adjust rigging to shape...

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173
    edited June 12

    Oh, I just saw your message! Thank you very much, I will try !laugh

     

    Edit: Huh, to be sure to don't make a mistake, if I understand well, I have to:

    1. To load the character morph I created (aloready done, sice I tested it... wink)

    2. To dial the Eye Side-Side morph

    3. To import the mesh in obj file into blender withe the Eye Side-Side morph activated

    4. To move the eyesocket until it woulb at the correct position

    5. To export the corrected mesh into DS by using the Morph Loader Pro, dial it and lock it, while the Eye Side-Side morph is activated

    Is it that?

    Thank you in advance for your answer!

    Post edited by yuyu.atem on
  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    Don't dial Eye Side-Side expression but direcly fix the eyesockets on the figure with zeroed pose ~

  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173

    Ah ? Even if the eyesocket is visible in with zeroed pose ? How could I to be sure that the eyesocket morph setting is ok without to use the eye side-side morph ?

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133
    edited June 13

    yuyu.atem said:

    Ah ? Even if the eyesocket is visible in with zeroed pose ? How could I to be sure that the eyesocket morph setting is ok without to use the eye side-side morph ?

    Oh oh ~~ maybe I misunderstood the issue. Pls clarify: on your wrapped character, before dialing Eyes Side-Side, are the eyesockets in right place or not ?

     

    Post edited by crosswind on
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173

    Yes, there are. It seems eyes pass before the eyesockets when I use the Eye Side-sude morph. I also tried the Eye Crossed morph, and I got the same issue, I gess it would happen with any moph making turn the eyes...

    In fact, I importes the character with the Eye Side-Side morph into Wrap, this afernoon, to try to see what hapen. I create an eyesocket subset from the character with the Eye Side-Side morph, and another eyesocket subset from the character with the zeoed pose, in order to compare their position. The both eyesocket subsets seem to superpose correctly, so I have not the impression that the eyesocket have moved when I used the Eye Side-Side morph... It seems rather thhat the eyeballs passed before the eyesockets, so as I can't see them...

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133
    edited June 14

    I've not encountered such an issue with wrapping result so far... Have you correctly Adjust the Rigging and ERC Freezed the character morph property ? Like the example of a wrapped result of a G9's character I show in the screenshot, if they're correctly rigged and freezed, there should be no such issue...

    Well, I couldn't reproduce your issue by now but I would suggest you further try: also hide the EyeSockets on the floating geometry in Wrap, before wrapping. See how it works... Otherwise, in your current case, you may have to make quite a lot of "fixing morphs" for those eyes related expression properties.

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    Post edited by crosswind on
  • yuyu.atemyuyu.atem Posts: 173

    I think I misunderstood someting, I don't find the Sub-Components section:

    When I loand my new morph, I didn't change any settings in the morph loader pro, I let the default settings:

    In fact, I didn't understand how to use the ERC feature... I guess I have to set something here, but I don't know what...

    Thank you in advance for your help!

  • crosswindcrosswind Posts: 5,133

    Okay, here're the steps you should take:

    - After importing the wrapped OBJ with MLP, select your figure, go to menu: Edit - Figure - Riggfing - Adjust Rigging to Shape.
    - Check if the issue is still there or not with Eyes Side-Side dialed...
    - If the issue is gone, then in Parameters pane, right-click mouse menu, turn on Edit Mode. Right-Click on the wrapped character morph property, do ERC Freeze....

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