G3M - Genital bulge messes with G2M auto-fit clothing!

L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
edited November 2015 in The Commons

I realize early default male figures were as "endowed" as a Ken doll, and there are morphs for adding the bulge for the benefit of clothing for those figures. So why is G3M different in that regard? I've spent the evening dressing him in a variety of G2M clothing and they all look bad in the crotch area due to the built in bulge. I can only assume clothing made specifically for G3M and generation 7 figures will not have the same issue. But it would be nice to flatten, or at least minimize the bulge to smooth the fabric in the groin area when using the Auto-Fit with G2M clothing. (And I would expect the same issue, perhaps even more pronounced, with any Auto-Fit product for earlier generation clothing.)

(These were all rendered in 3Delight.)

Aside from this issue, so far, I'm liking G3M a lot. But part of what makes it "affordable" to include G3M/M7 is the ablity to use clothing from previous generations. Somehow, when using G2M clothing items, I don't think making sure the crotch is never showing in a render is much of a solution...
frown

G3M Bulge with G2M Clothing - Jeans from Urban Survivors.jpg
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G3M Bulge with G2M Clothing - Minato Outfit.jpg
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G3M Bulge with G2M Clothing - Casual A from IH Kang.jpg
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G3M Bulge with G2M Clothing -Grantham Hall Suit Duex textures.jpg
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Post edited by L'Adair on
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Comments

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,319

    Poor guy, and as a guy... Ouch!

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    nicstt said:

    Poor guy, and as a guy... Ouch!

    LOL... I'm just concerned with the clothes fitting around the groin area, not emasculating poor Eddie, (or Michael, et al.) While the "bulge" morph produced an unrealistic bump, it didn't mangle the pants.

    The truth is, I'd love to see a morph set just for producing realistic bulges and wrinkles, etc. for male clothes in the groin area. Blue jeans, for example, don't bulge so much as they bunch up and fold in places. With notable exceptions, most pants—on men and women—are not skin tight and vary in their appearance in the crotch area depending on both style and fabric. And when they are skin tight, they tend to hold "everything" fairly tight to the body.

  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,096
    L'Adair said:
    nicstt said:

    Poor guy, and as a guy... Ouch!

    LOL... I'm just concerned with the clothes fitting around the groin area, not emasculating poor Eddie, (or Michael, et al.) While the "bulge" morph produced an unrealistic bump, it didn't mangle the pants.

    The truth is, I'd love to see a morph set just for producing realistic bulges and wrinkles, etc. for male clothes in the groin area. Blue jeans, for example, don't bulge so much as they bunch up and fold in places. With notable exceptions, most pants—on men and women—are not skin tight and vary in their appearance in the crotch area depending on both style and fabric. And when they are skin tight, they tend to hold "everything" fairly tight to the body.

    I find it kind of odd that G2F's clothing doesn't seem to have that problem. Don't ask me how that works-- I have no idea.

  • SfariahSfariah Posts: 23,752

    Does the one in the body morph set work?  

  • Maybe he's just pleased to see us?
  • SfariahSfariah Posts: 23,752

    Oh I miss read this title oops.  Maybe when I get home tonight I can look into something.

  • KA1KA1 Posts: 1,011
    edited November 2015

    Hmm I had this trouble with a g2f render I did...

    11119150_10205527818652723_8128265054529794447_n.jpg
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    Post edited by KA1 on
  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,848

    Tight pants will do that to a girl....

  • StratDragonStratDragon Posts: 3,166

    you could D-form the effected area drawing in back and then saving the morph as "banana in pocket or just happy to see you?"

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    you could D-form the effected area drawing in back and then saving the morph as "banana in pocket or just happy to see you?"

    I'm not very good with D-Form, espcially with small areas on the body...

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    Does the one in the body morph set work?  

    I don't have the body morph set... yet. wink

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    Maybe he's just pleased to see us?

    I don't think so... I think that requires the body morph pack... wink

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    edited November 2015

    Here are some more images.

    I switched back to Iray, so my first two images are comparing the same shot in both render engines. The image on the left is 3Delight, the one on the right is Iray. The first image is Grantham Suit (Deux textures). The distortion is minimal and seems to be more obvious in the 3DL render, mainly because of the shadows.
     

    Comparison of 3DL and Iray render of Grantham Suit, groin area, by L'Adair
     

    The next image compares M601 on G3M, on the left, and G2M on the right. (3DL and Iray, respectively.) The distortion on the left looks like some strange "pocket" sewn into the pants to hold G3M's manhood. On the right, the slacks are smooth across the groin area on G2M.
     

    Comparison of M601 Slacks on G3M and G2M, by L'Adair
     

    The next image uses the Old World Knight. The underskirt is badly distorted. There are a lot of morphs for OWK, and it is quite likely I can get rid of the clothing poking through the armor. However, the underskirt is unusable. The middle image is without texturing to emphasize the degree of distortion. The image on the right is just the pants. They turned out rather well.
     

    Old Wolrd Knight on G3M, underskirt issue, by L'Adair
     

    The last image shows a pair of jeans for G3F, from Street Casual Outfit for Genesis 3 Female(s). Aside from the fact the legs are way too long, these jeans are the best fit. Another render i did with the jeans from Sunny for Genesis 3 Female(s) also fit the crotch area without distortion.
     

    Casual Street for Genesis 3 Females jeans on G3M, by L'Adair
     

    My tentative conclusion is G2M pants that are normally tight fitting will survive Auto-Fit and be usable without hiding the groin area of the character. Looser pants are a no go if the offending distortions won't be hidden in the scene. It's a shame so many of the jeans/pants/slacks items for G2M, and most likely older generations, won't work well for G3M. At least for now, anyway. Perhaps Zevo will include a fix for this problem in a Fit Control for G3M product.

    G3M Bulge with G2M Clothing 3delight Iray comparison Grantham Suit Duex .jpg
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    G3M Bulge with G2M Clothing Old World Knight.jpg
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    G3M Bulge testing with G3F Jeans.jpg
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    M601 on G3M and G2M for comparison.jpg
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    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • I haven't tested this, and won't be able to in the foreseeable future, but there's a theoretical solution that I think should help a lot.

    Dial up the G2M autofit clone, then use D-formers to add a crotch bulge.

    Make the resulting shape into a new morph, categorized as an autofit clone.

    Use the new clone when autofitting pants that have a modeled-in bulge. This should minimize the distortion.

  • ErdehelErdehel Posts: 382
    edited November 2015

    I haven't tested this, and won't be able to in the foreseeable future, but there's a theoretical solution that I think should help a lot.

    Dial up the G2M autofit clone, then use D-formers to add a crotch bulge.

    Make the resulting shape into a new morph, categorized as an autofit clone.

    Use the new clone when autofitting pants that have a modeled-in bulge. This should minimize the distortion.

    I will try that as soon as I get home. But I think it won't work: I tried to use MEC4D's wrestler outfit that has a big built in crotch and I got the same distortion.

    I spent all yesterday evening looking at what was exactly going on and it seems that the autofitting tool will be ok for the leg parts as well as for the crotch itself (lower hip) but it doesn't create an overlapping (smoothing) bridge between those two parts. This is consistent with what you see when you dial the bulge morph on a naked "Ken" M7. As a result the geometry will deflate where crotch and legs meet. Smoothing and collision detection won't help here. They may distort some polygons even more.

    I sincerely hope the new products we have in the store will solve this issue. As it is most Genesis 2 pants won't work with M7 or the Genesis 3 male.

    Post edited by Erdehel on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,766
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,540

    Ultra Templates has an alternate clone for better bulge, as well, but it's mainly intended for skirts and kilts.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    Ultra Templates has an alternate clone for better bulge, as well, but it's mainly intended for skirts and kilts.

    Sounds like it would fix the problem for the Old World Knight underskirt, then. Have you tried it on pants, Sy?

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 5,881

    Someone said there's been an update (either for this or the arm bend issue) but I can't remember *what* was updated. Was it the morphs pack, the Starter Essentials, or M7?

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 4,470
    JOdel said:

    Someone said there's been an update (either for this or the arm bend issue) but I can't remember *what* was updated. Was it the morphs pack, the Starter Essentials, or M7?

    Starter Essentials and Body Morphs have been updated. What was updated in them, your guess is as good as mine. The product readmes are absolutely and utterly silent on that matter. I *think* the correction in Body Morphs was to break the link that made the teeth deform when the genital bulge morph was used. That's only a guess, though.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,766

    I am pretty sure Genesis 3 Male essentials has not updated. I grabbed it on day 1, and there has been no update since (or to any other essentials for that matter).

  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 5,881
    edited November 2015

    Well then I'll go and download the body morphs again. Thanks.

    Post edited by JOdel on
  • DarkSpartanDarkSpartan Posts: 1,096

    Well, Zev's Shape Shift is up now, so that might help matters. I doubt Fit Control G3M will be far behind.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470

    The coffers are empty right now, so I'm wishlisting all things G3M/M7 for now. That means 2-4 items a day are going into my wishlist!

    In the meantime, I guess I'll stop playing with the new boy toy, and continue to use G2M/M6 for anything serious.
    crying

  • RCTSpankyRCTSpanky Posts: 848
    edited November 2015

    Does "Wear Them All - Autofitting Clones and Clothing Smoothers for Genesis 3 Male(s)" really fit the problem, because Genesis 2 Male is not listed in the description text.

    Post edited by RCTSpanky on
  • dvitoladvitola Posts: 136

    I haven't tested this, and won't be able to in the foreseeable future, but there's a theoretical solution that I think should help a lot.

    Dial up the G2M autofit clone, then use D-formers to add a crotch bulge.

    Make the resulting shape into a new morph, categorized as an autofit clone.

    Use the new clone when autofitting pants that have a modeled-in bulge. This should minimize the distortion.

    Can someone tell me what a D-Form is and where I can find it? Thanks, Denise

     

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 23,415
    edited November 2015

    Denise, putting it very simply- D-forms are like a mesh field that overlays the surface and you can pull the surface, raise the surface, move the surface, then make it into a morph with sliders. There's already a ton of posts on how to do them so not reinventing the wheel, but here's a link to my reference section that has handy sections alphabetically, including D-forms. There's great YouTube videos too. Here's a few links from my references:

    Dformers:
    Novica's Q&As; On Setting Up: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/41191/
    Carnite's Video Tutorial For Landscapes: 
    For Clothing: 

    Post edited by Novica on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,470
    RCTSpanky said:

    Does "Wear Them All - Autofitting Clones and Clothing Smoothers for Genesis 3 Male(s)" really fit the problem, because Genesis 2 Male is not listed in the description text.

    I have no idea if WTA solves the bulge issue. WTA for G3 Female provided auto-fit from V4/M4, Genesis and G2M to G3F. I assume WTA for G3 Male does essentially the same for the guys, (with G2F, of course.) The Genesis 3 Starter Essentials include auto-fit Genesis 2 Male to Genesis 3 Male and Genesis 2 Female to Genesis 3 Female.

    I'm inclined to believe Sickleyield's Ultra Templates for G3M will do more for the problem. But as I can't afford to get it yet, I can't test it to see if it works on pants. It is designed to work on tunics, though. So there is half the problem solved.

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,396

    Has anyone come up with a reliable fix for this?

     

    I tried with SY Ultra Templates, but I can not find the Detriangulator morph (yes I turned on Show Hidden) that is mentioned in the product docs.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 16,998

    The male groin has been a challenge area for a while. Methinks if it were a type of female breast it would've been solved by now. I think part of the issue is that people still model over this area like the male is neuter. That is the wrong approach. Just as you wouldn't model a female figure breast less why model the male groin this way? Then there is the insistence on tight crotch pants which short of skinny jeans you don't see too often in modern clothing. 

    I tend to jus use m3m underwear bulge and default bulge in combination. But I admit it is frustrating. Especially if you render a shot with the camera pointing upward. I still frequently get tearing around the groin and sometimes the lower buttocks

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