G3M and G3F based off a different mesh?
Havos
Posts: 5,582
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but it seems that unlike with Genesis 2, the male and female bases have been split further apart by using a different mesh, rather than being morphs of the same mesh that was the case with Genesis 2. I checked the mesh files, and the vertex counts are different, unlike with G2M and G2F.
Whilst I am sure there are topological advantages for this, the downsides are pretty severe by comparison. It will be much harder to share morphs and UV's between the two bases now, and when you consider that female content generally outnumbers male content by 4 to 1 or worse, I can not say I am in favour of this move. Swapping UV sets between the bases used to be simply a matter of copying a file from one place to another, but now it seems we will have to buy a UV set in order to do this, as is evident from Slosh's new product today. (http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3-uv-swap-male-and-female-base). No disrespect to the PA involved, but I confess I do not fancy paying 15 dollars each time just to swap a UV set between genders when it used to be free.
We will see what consequences this will have on other products going forward.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
I had an inspect of the base mesh, and G3M is very different in the chest-- the mesh is less dense than G3F there. It's very nearly the same elsewhere. Transferring morphs is going to be somewhat more problematic.
As for $15 every time you want to swap, can you describe an instance where an alternate UV gets used more than a handful of times? I don't see very many, certainly. Maybe a few extras beyond the Bundle for Bethany, since she is most definitely plus-sized (and therefore prone to texture stretching), but after Pro bundles I nearly never see characters use anything but the basic figure UVs.
Seems to me it's of more use for amateur character makers like myself, since we can re-UV the figure and then use our existing texture base kits.
That said, I still have to paint a basic skin texture for Aleksandr, because I don't have another way right for the moment. On the plus side, I had to stretch my modeling skills to get the morph done. We'll see what happens next.
For those that aren't interested, there will be no bitwork texture for Aleks, For Micheal 7 is expensive, and after all the stuff in the PC+ sale, I don't have the scratch to buy him or the morphkits. So, I'm going to have to muddle through as best I can without those things for now.
Yes, that's the current morph. Maya and I had a disagreement about things for a bit, and now I have to beat Photoshop about the head and shoulders next.
You are correct, that the only UVs that really need to be swapped are the base ones and M7 and V7, and I would be more tempted with Slosh's product if it did all four of these, but there are also certain more extreme UV's for creatures that you might want to swap, for example if you wanted a female Minotaur, and only a male one existed.
I was also thinking of the wider consequences of having a separate mesh for male and female. The last time this was done was way back for M1 and V1, so it has been a long time that we have had not had a so called unimesh.
Even then, applying G3F's tex to G3M gets the nipples in the right places.
Transferring morphs is going to be somewhat more problematic.
It is only problematic if that area contains changes. EG if you transfer things like leg or head morphs it will be fine as long as it the chest area is unaffected. See attachment of the affected area. So any morphed polygons outside that will transfer properly. Some morphs that do overlap that area still transfer fine, but it all depends on what sort of changes were made there.
I would have thought any full body morphs will be tricky to transfer, since the vertex count is different, and FBMs are the easiest things to transfer for novices, particularly when using things like Morph Loader Pro.
Was removing a couple of hundred polys from G3M's chest area such a huge advantage to justify a mesh split?
Well people kept complaining G2M's chest area sucked because of all the unnessasary polygons around the pectorals, so improvements come at a cost I suppose. To be honest most morphs come over fine and the change in polygons actually interpret the transferred morphs ok, but don't expect stellar chick breasts on G3M:)
I can see that G3M's chest is better, but the jury is still out on whether that is a good enough reason for the mesh split. Hopefully, should a GenX 3 arrive, moving morphs between the genders should be easier, but I still think it is a pity that moving UVs between genders is now much more difficult. If content was created equally for male and female, this is less of an issue, but we both know that is not true now, nor will be in the future.
The Transfer Utility can be used to take morphs from G3F to G3M and vice versa, in the areas where the topology is the same the transfer should be exact (you just need to set the shape to the other's clone to match them up).
OK, thanks, I will try that. So far I have only ever used the Transfer Utility on full body shapes.
So then... How painful will the G3M SS be?
Yes, I'm going to want it. Do you want my card number now, or should I keep your money safe for you a bit longer?
So their mesh are different? How would that affect content creation?
Unless you're making characters/morphs, it really won't much. Even then the mesh is the same except across the chest and pectorals.
Look at my sig:) It is already complete:) Will be available soon. Unless SS means something else lol. To be honest it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. I also panicked when I heard mesh changes....
I was talking about the pain my credit card will no doubt feel when you finally release it.
Lol never knew cards had feelings:) To me they are slaves that do our bidding:)
Your bidding... Mine was whining I've not had much opportunity to send you any more cash.
Mine apparently does, and it expresses pain to my wife, who then talks to me about it.
That said, all the girls swear by your work (well, you and @Dogz ), so it'll going to have to get over it if it expects to see anything more than the usual twice-monthly pittance.
Okay, back to work. Need to redress and re-hair Aleks, then give his sister Alexis a new sculpt.
I don't quite know the right response to the general theme of this thread. Many people in the past have complained that the males' chests were too "breast like" and frankly that had a lot to do with using all of the female's breast polygons to create a masculine chest. So, it seems Daz opted to change the geometry in that area, thus the difference in the male and female meshes. So now the complaint is that the meshes need to be exactly the same so people can transfer things back and forth between the two. I feel for the Daz team in trying to please as many people as possible. It's the classic "Danged if you do, danged if you don't" scenario.
At any rate, different meshes mean that there are different uvs. No way around that at all. Trying to think ahead (to possible Creature Creator sets, bot-Genesis type things, maybe another Reptilian or Minotaur, mermaids, etc. This is not a spoiler, I don't know if any of these things are in the works, except of course the mermaids for G3F which have already hit the store), I thought the community would appreciate the ability to share textures between the male and female. And since, so far, the only ones using M7 and V7 are the base models, I only did uvs for G3F and G3M. There didn't seem to be any point in converting V7/M7.
As for transferrring morphs, I'm glad Zev0 chimed in... he said everything I was going to say. Using the transfer utility, you will find very little issues when transferring morphs across the genders, and even then it is only evident in the chest area.
This is not a product I expect everyone to want or need, I just wanted to make sure it was available to those of you who have a use for swapping uvs. It seems that I have been sort of linked to all things UV these days, and I really like that distinction, so I want to provide as many options as I can to our community. It's just like Zev0's store... not everyone will think they "must have" all of these shaping morphs, but it's fantastic that he always comes through and provides them for us. (Zev0 is going to kill me for saying not everyone "must have" them... YES, everyone MUST HAVE Zev0's morphs! LOL)
Thanks Slosh for the reply. As I raised the issue, it was, I confess, originally due to my surprise at seeing the meshes were different. Until I saw your product I did not even realise the meshes were different, and I had always sort of assumed that keeping a single mesh per generation was a kind of holy cow of DAZ, and so did not expect them to break it. As you and Zev0 have explained, maybe I am making a lot over nothing, and if it makes our males look like males, then I guess it is worth it. I did not realise so few characters used the V7 UVs, but if they are so close to G3F anyway, maybe that is why. I know there is a lot of characters that used M5 and V5 (not sure about M6 and V6). Sorry if I offended anyone with the tone of my posts, I guessed I was surprised over the consequences of the split, but it seems with all the tools available in DS now, this is less of an issue today than it was back in the days of generation 3 and 4, when UV swapping was not so easy.
I got your product to stopgap issues with a lack of seam guides and other similar things for textures for G3M. Once I get the things for that built up, I can stand it up in the corner and look at it as the eight bucks that did the job.
Zev's shaping morphs, on the other hand, I abuse the hell out of. I use those for shaping bases in spots that are hard to get to or resculpt for whatever reason.
Havos, I can't speak for anyone else but nothing you said offended me in any way at all, nor did you sound overly negative. It was a straightforward question that seemed perfectly reasonable to ask, so no worries from me whatsoever.
DarkSpartan... yep to what you just said. Zev's shaping morphs make so much of a difference in our scenes. He's an irreplaceable asset IMO, and having met the guy in person, he's irreplaceable as a human being, too. I think this uv swap will really come in handy for custom textures that the community and the vendors make for your characters, most especially the "non-human", undead, or really ambiguous textures that can be shared across genders. No point in doing the work twice, right?
Nearly so, at least. I will eventually have to make tex for the guys, but being able to apply the women's tex is a better way to begin, given the dog's dinner I made of the first attempt at tex for Aleksandr.
I didn't realize most characters use the base uvs now too, definitely a plus, this is already in my cart, will this work on layered maps too? Like makeup or freckles?
@ Dkgoose - Pretty sure they will work if the overlays are also designed on the G3F base UV. And just to clarify, I am not human, but merely an entity that prefers human form:)
Gonna frame this lol! I kept telling people such existed lol ...
Seriously though, nice to see some support items come out before we spent hours trying to make them the hard way :-)
I am an entity that is stuck in human form that I find hard to modify.
Lol aren't we all. If only we were grey blobs that could shift into whatever we wanted..Would be fun:)
Actually, turning into a grey blob is actually too easy, it's changing into something else after that's the hard part.
-- Walt Sterdan
Awesome this stays in cart, out of curiosity though, is Michael 7 downloadable from the product library or DIM or is it strictly Connect?
You can get him via DIM (hwo i did it) and others have stated they did a manual install in other threads so no not connect only.