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lighted and done in nivid iray still looks waxy to me.
Subdivision. Basically increases the surface fidelity. Going overboard with it will make your computer explode. (not literally ((well, probably not literally)))
Someone may have already mentioned this, but if you don't have a good HDRI for the environment map, your models won't look as nice, not matter which lights you use. :-) The default environment map is bluish, and that washes out skin sometimes. Lots of free maps online and of course, great maps/portrait maps/lights in the store. I have experience with Dimension Theory and Magix IRay lights, both very good.
Unless you're using sun/sky, and that I don't know about.
If all this has been mentioned, please disregard.
But that's the rub. You need lights to get an actual idea of how the skin looks. It's kind of like complaining a boat doesn't float when you have it in a cornfield.
With a biased renderer, a shader can look completely different depending on the scene lights. An un-biased renderer, such as Octane, LUX or Iray are supposed to be more physically correct and so are the shaders that they use. It should be more consistent with different lighting than a biased renderer, provided the shaders are set up properly.
As I mentioned above, I notice that many (not all) of the renders used in promos and done by the artists here use a very strong SSS. I don't know why. Perhaps it's the new toy syndrome of, "hey, look what I can do," so they crank the SSS higher to show up better in situations where you normally wouldn't notice it, or if the default settings are overly strong in Iray.
Kon:
There are two places you'll find Subdivision level. The first is the model itself, and it's in Parameters under Mesh Resolution. Mesh Resolution is roughly divided between 'Basic' and 'High resolution' (or maybe high definition, I'm busy rendering something and can't check)
If an object lacks the option for High Resolution, you can click: Edit > Geometry > Apply Subdivision.
Each level of subdivision increases the number of facets by 4x. With models that have HD components (like the pro packs for Victoria and Michael 5+, and various other items), you want to have Subd 3 before it will properly appear. But you only need that for close-ups... I usually drop back to Subd 1 for medium shots or even Basic for long shots -- it saves on memory and rendering. Theoretically you can go higher, but I've never found it necessary.
You can also increase subd on other things. I've occasionally applied it to clothing. Full drapey dresses and the like should probably be at least Subd 1. Some objects, particularly architecture, can distort and fall apart if you apply subdivision (so go back to Basic).
The OTHER place you'll see subdivision is in Displacement. This applies on top of object displacement, and basically 'fakes it' for the purposes of displacement effects. Generally if you are using displacement, you want Subd 3. (every time I've attempted to use less, it looks terrible). SOMETIMES you want more -- I've used displacement to make surfaces 'fuzzy,' and in those cases I've found it necessary to go to subd 5. Push it too far and you'll probably lock up youir computer.
Note: Unless you are doing close-ups or extreme displacement, you're much better off just sticking the map into Bump and be done with it.
I think that covers most of it.
So, for example, in the wizard, I have his skin with an 'old age/vascularity' displacement map, so there's displacement subd 3. I also have a bunch of HD aging morphs, so I made the figure subd 3, too.
The hair is a series of small objects. The more subd, the more smoothly they flow, and generally they tend to look thinner and react more hair-like to lighting. Which is one reason the second image's beard looks so much more bristly/coarse than the first, it's a difference of subd 1 vs. subd 3.
Oh, ok. :-) I don't know anything about working with the sun/sky. I always use environment maps because I like the different ways they tint the skin and props.
Well, good luck. I hope you bond with IRay. I love it.
Holy crap. I tried it with the Sun-Sky setting and I'm getting the same effect. This isn't supposed to be happening. I've rendered tons of images using the Sun-Sky setting before and it didn't do this. Try it with the default HDRI map.
Set the Render Settings/Environment Mode to Dome and Scene.
In Render Settings tab/Editor tab/Environment/Environment Map, use the default HDRI map. It's in
C:\Program Files\DAZ 3D\DAZStudio4\shaders\iray\resources\DTHDR-RuinsB-500.hdr
I think indoor lights, even emissive materials render a lot better overall.
A lot of skin textures look like wax to me too - and I'm looking at the promotional images for the products. If the maker of the texture can't render it without it looking like wax - I don't buy it. And what's this skin texture suppose to look like?
Although I have G3F I generally don't use her much because I can't find a skin for her that isn't too tanned and uniform. To me they all look like models with heavy foundation makeup so I mainly work with G2 characters with my favourite V4 textures.
I would suppose that this corresponds to the bulk of clothing available - girls dressed to the nines and made up for a night out on the town. Danae, please make some textures for G3F, pretty please with sugar on top.
Unfortunately the base material setup for most figures is not so good, which I am assuming is done like this on purpose so that vendors can sell shader packs to improve it. I always see people talking about how tanned the figures are. they're not really tanned, if you look at V7's skin when setup right she is not tanned at all. It's all about setup.
The image Fauvist posted shows that SSS is a subtle effect and is mostly visible in places like ears, provided that there is, like in his case, a strong backlighting.
How does human skin look? if you are a human being, you have about a couple (IIRC) of square meters of your own skin to check
.
I only have G3F, but I can spot right off the bat one big problem -- there is no translucency weight map, and the color map is just a copy of the regular skin diffuse map. This is a bit substandard, and I'm kind of surprised at it.
I often use V5 skin on every Genesis and Genesis 2 figure if I want close-ups, because there are only a very few skins with proper translucency.
(I plug in other skins on top, but then plug in trans weight/color. It's not perfect, and eyebrows not lining up are annoying, but still)
The problem with too many of the texture sets is that the texture artists don't know how to make proper bump, specular and SSS maps. With the biased render engines we used in the past this wasn't as critical as it is with unbiased render engines.
I would suggest that you read up on this stuff then so you understand how things work. Also SSS maps technically should not be needed, but I guess it depends on how you are tryng to set it up.
I would also suggest that until you understand how this stuff works, you really aren't ready to pass judgement on whether they work right.
It does, but you're not going to be able to address it until you have a better understanding of how the renderer works and the shaders you use with the renderer work. I'm still trying to figure it out myself, I've learned a few things, but I still have a long way to go. There's a really great thread about how to improve your iray skin shaders in the daz studio forum. http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/54239/fiddling-with-iray-skin-settings/p1 It's hard to follow sometimes, but if you stick with it you can learn a lot. One thing you can try to start is turn off SSS altogether, work on the other parts of the shader and then add it back in when you're satisfied with the other settings.
For Iray, Translucency is pretty important - it seems to be more important than SSS, though that could be due to flaws in Studio 4.8. I've heard reports that the Iray SSS works differently (better) in the 4.9 beta. Reducing the translucency strength will make the resulting skin texture seem lighter and a tad less saturated - this can be used to reduce the over tanned/orange glow that we see in many renders.
Normal maps are important too, as well as adjusting the normal strength such that you get some variation in the skin surface roughness to break up the waxiness/glossiness. I note that Vyria doesn't come with normal maps. I've been avoiding characters/textures that don't have normal maps as normal maps seem to give a much better effect than just bump maps. I note that both Mina and Arabella come with normal maps, and that both Mina and Vyria use the base G3F UV set so you could apply the Mina normal maps to Vyria to give the skin some more detail and break up the waxiness/glossiness a bit. Don't be afraid to really crank up the normal strength when you're experimenting, eventually you'll find a normal strength that works for you. It's been my experience that you need a higher strength on the face/lips/head/ears than on the rest of the skin to get the surfaces looking right.
Your render looks like what I get with the Sun-Sky option in 4.9. It didn't render like that before. I think something changed in the renderer. I'll have to go back to 4.8 and check. Whatever the case, the Sun-Sky option in 4.9 is now garbage to me. The indoor lighting looks much better to me though, even from before.
At the very least, try the default HDRI map. It's not perfect, but it can produce better renders than what you're getting now. Not saying it's not the textures, but something else is going on too. Try some indoor lighting too. If you still get the same effect, then ok, probably something with the surface.
Thiiis. G3F doesn't even have an Iray setup, and the Daz base figures (and many of the PA characters) are all set up in exactly the same way that gives the same super tanned browny yellow look. It isn't a problem with the texture map; it's the shader settings in surfaces. All of which you can change to get the look that's right to you.
Sitting there complaining that it doesn't look right to you when you don't know what materials or light settings or what subdivision suggests that someone is blaming their tools when they don't know how to use them.
That said, many many promo shots do suck. I've seen a fair few characters that looked like garbage in their promos, or didn't show many key details, but turned out to be really nice looking characters with many options. Also many that looked much better in their promos and also turned out of have crappy areas that the promos didn't show. The rules of what can and can't, and what must and isn't required, to be shown in promos leads to many misleading purchases and in my case at least, many purchases just not happening because I don't want to risk it.
I suspect making a good translucency map isn't TERRIBLY hard -- you could use the V5/M5 maps for ideas. Mainly, start with a low gray, brighten up ears and fingers, parts of the nose, and that will probably get you a decent outcome. (this leaves room to mask out eyebrows and other features)
If you really want to get creative, you can reduce the translucency of moles. ;)
I like using AJ Blood Vessel textures for translucency. Much more detailed than the G3 series default ones, but again you need to experiment with settings to get good effects.
Available free here. No male version that I know of sadly.
Alright, I'll probably get spanked for this, but . . . to those of you that are convinced the standard skins are so bad and that you know what is wrong . . . . why haven't you fixed it? Don't recall seeing any renders from the grumblers here that I thought were better than what I've seen from PA's?
I also wouldn't lump all the character providers together. I have several figures whose skins look good to me, and have avoided the "tanning issue".