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"How is bare skin not impractical unless forced? Heck, just bumping into stuff, there's a scratch that can turn septic."
That's true, but the argument against skimpy armor is always "it offers no protection in combat". Would having a cotton tunic over her chest and abdomen raise her armor class any?
Definitely a good and practical idea to cover your body if you're traveling through a swamp or thick forest, but if you're going to go with cloth or light armor anyway, I don't believe it would make *that* much of a difference in a combat situation if your breasts or midriff were exposed.
edit: I also have no problem with skimpy male armor, so I don't say this only because I like sexy fantasy ladies. ;)
Well, we now know why the life expectancy back then was so few years! lmao
The first few are warriors from civilizations that did not have metalworking. The Greek and Roman ones were artistic, not accurate. I mean, how about the ones with satyrs balancing bowls of wine on their, er, bits?
And before it's said, yes, of course, you can use the armor for artistically unrealistic stuff. Her head could be a giant hand. Or something.
People should not confuse fantasy for the real world for one :) Might help people understand things better. After that it's just a matter of preference.
Last I looked those Iklwa were very much made of metal the first iron workers were almost certainly African, do you think constructing armour was beyond them? Or perhaps like the greeks hoploites that they are comparable to: heavy body armour and a strong sun do not mix well. The point being they didn't wear armour and were no less capable of winning fights because of it. The Impi were shock heavy infantry with nothing more than a cowhide shield and a kilt of animal tails for armour. They still gave the British army a run for their money and how long did the American Indian wars last again?
And do you really belive those hundreds vases of naked Hoplites and staues and first had description of naked Gauls are just artistic? Thats how people dressed for war! Its hardly a disputed historical fact, we know it to be true.
Quitre. My problem isn't fantasy. My problem is that some peoples idea of historical reality is a fantasy. A naked torso in war isn't that unrealistic at all so complaining it is unrealistic is increadible itself.
It's not that going into battle naked is the problem...it's turning an impractical bikini metalic and slapping on a pair of heels that can double as a backup weapon (+3 enchanted stilletos of doom).
Again men wenty into battle wearing high heels! Men copied the military style and then women copied the male style. Ofcourse it make more sense if you are ridinging using stirups but it did happen.
All female armour is made up. Yes some women occasionally fought in battles but they certianly were not equiped for war in harness, Joan of Arc maybe but we have no evidence of this. Nothing is unrealistic when everything is made up. If you want practical take a good male armour like the nigh watch stuff for genisis and auot fit it to your lady of choice, thats what I do. If you want higher fantasy buy this! But naked midriffs are not impractical or unrealistic nomater how many times the Frank Frazetta chain mail bikini how terrible meme is thrown around.
High heels when riding, using stirrups. Hmm, not really reccomended, especially if one is riding British style.
Vintage Britsh Riding Boots
http://www.nattas.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/bushido1.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/89/ef/92/89ef92cecd64285d6b7add10885b461c.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Isabella_and_Roger_Mortimer.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Joan_of_arc_miniature_graded.jpg
As for what functional female armor could look like:
http://37.media.tumblr.com/e539144e1e77eae1d35e2a1a8013d4d4/tumblr_mnknqxeTCR1r49ix5o1_500.jpg
http://www.wassonartistry.com/images/armor/15thcent/IMG_2253.JPG
http://viralearth.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/fdf2c241df8d45b2c5f153db3f5a91d9.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2rs-rH0BqRg/SaupdnmEOuI/AAAAAAAABK0/exZ0cjVBZf0/s1600/anna+popplewell+5.jpg
http://41.media.tumblr.com/87d9c01f613c6610c13b47e472378593/tumblr_mx3i9gcJJE1qm3agio1_500.jpg
Those functional female armor examples are very good. I would consider buying any of those if they were made for G2F/G3F.
As much as I'm a fan of skimpy fantasywear, it seems EVERYTHING in the store is skimpy these days. Just a couple of practical pieces would be nice for mixing and combining with others.
They'd have to be done as GeoGrafts, hiding the breasts. That of course is one reason for the fantasy designs - they have to work on the default shape rather than rflecting the way soft tissue like breasts would be flattened by the weight of the armour.
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I thought there was armour, fairly effective, made from multiple layers of cotton or silk - not the same thing as a single shirt, but still.
It's a big reason I hope to get Breast and Fit Control -- it's hard to get clothes to fit right when they should be affecting the breasts underneath.
As for silk armor, I think silk was often an effective arrow protection -- arrows spin, so they'd get 'caught' twirling up the fibers of the silk.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_armour
Also, an aside on armor:
Lamellar armour: plates laced together (Romans used this)
Scale armour: plates attached to a backing, overlapping one another
Mail (sometimes called maille or chainmail): Small rings linked together
Plate armour (not plate mail, that isn't a proper term!): You know, the jousting stuff (but usually less, and often just a breastplate or otherwise bits of this or that)
Why do women wear bras?? because if running in battle those of us with bigger breasts would be beat to death by ourown breasts ,way before the enemy got a chance to do it!!Course those are natural,maybe the silicone ones don't move so much........but .........
My objections has always been that a man wears sensible armour in these situations; it does vary, but the woman is almost always shown wearing very little - no variation. So while I can accept that some would be sky-clad or somewhat, others would cover more. I have an equal objection to mail armour so often being rediculously heavy full armour - with more spikes on it that a porcupine.
Support. Most of the time, it's for support. And modesty - we don't exactly (not all of us anywway LOL) want the whole world seeing what we've got there. That's reserved for intimate partners for many of us. And society's expectations play a role, too - younger girls moreso than older women, I suppose - but many are concerned about "keeping them up" so they "look attractive" or "don't sag", as well, because people pass judgement when they "sag" or "aren't perky."
Also bear in mind, that in Western and European society - female breasts are completely sexualized. You go to some other areas of the world, and visit some other cultures, and you find the women walk around completely topless just like their men - and no one even bats an eyelash - because in those cultures, the female breast isn't sexualized - it's for feeding screaming, hungry babies and that's it.
Hey - you did ask! :) LOL
In all seriousness, though - I don't mind the bare midriffs and such, per se. It's just that for my purposes, in my artwork, and for my characters - I can't use it. And I also feel like the market is completely OVERSATURATED with this type of armor for BOTH genders. A few years ago, I'd see it and think, "Oh, hey, that's actually really nice... I wish I could make use of that!" Nowadays, I see it, and because there's just SO MUCH OF IT on the market, the thought process is more like, "ANOTHER one? It's well made, it looks nice, but come ON!"
So I have learned over the years how to kit-bash and put multiple sets and shaders, textures and whatnot together to clothe my characters that would not want to be caught dead in skimp. I have a small handful of characters who honestly wouldn't care if the whole world saw all of their assets, but the vast majority of my characters would not ever leave the house exposed like that.
As far as "real" armor vs. "artisitc interpretation" of it - it's kind of a moot point, in all honesty. Vendors and modelers will create that which they want to create. We can either buy or not. That's the beauty of free choice. I personally don't buy much of it because as I pointed out above, for MY particular, individual purposes in my renders - I can't use it, or I wouldn't be able to use it very often. Most of my artwork are storyline renders and illustration - I don't do casual "just for fun" renders very often, and I have to stay true to my characters in my works - and that means their clothing and armor choices as well.
As far as the historical bits of protection vs. mobility - again, this is all a moot point, I think. Aside from "vendors will make what they want to make" - there is also the aspect that, frankly, for me PERSONALLY, I have a hard time accepting armor that leaves vital organs and areas exposed, while armoring other areas that are not quite as vital. Yes, I know, historically speaking many of the male armors were very little to none. But the characters that I render are sticklers in my head - if they're going to wear armor - it's for protection - and exposed midriffs, chests, backs, etc - fails the test. At the same time, I do fully recognize that often times in through history, armor was either completely lacking in combat, or grossly insufficient for actual protection. We don't KNOW what female armor did or did not look like, because there doesn't seem to be very many records left behind concerning it. So everything is open to creativity, interpretation, and artisitc license, in that regards. Most of the armor (male OR female) that is on the market - if I buy it, I have to cover up unmodeled, exposed body areas for my characters. That's also something I recognize as being a PERSONAL need for MY style of artwork as a niche buyer - and is not, by and large, what the vast majority of buyers are looking for.
Thus, I kitbash. I'm a niche buyer, so it's on me to get creative on how to get what I need for my renders - kitbashing is a valuable skill! :)
There's nothing at all actually WRONG with the sets - and for the record - I have the same thought processes regarding the male armor sets as well. Full plate is a bear to move in, it's heavy, it restricts movement, it pulls you to the earth and makes you basically a standing brick wall - you can't move very fast, but theoretically you can take a bit more punishment before you die. That's the point of plate armor, I think. LOL. Leather, padded, etc, are only offering very minimal protections.
Now, all of that aside - I have bought products from Powerage in the past. For the MOST part, I absolutely love his work. I think he's very skilled as a modeler, it's clear that he puts a lot of effort into his packages - and I just adore his creativity and his particular unique style. I don't buy a LOT of his stuff because - again - due to my specific artistic needs, I just wouldn't have a use for it, so therefore can't justify the cost - but I really do very much love his work, and the items of his that I have bought, I have been completely happy with! I have the same problem with AerySoul, and a few other vendors, also - I love, love, LOVE their work - but a lot of it I don't buy simply because I wouldn't have a USE for it, and cannot justify spending the money on it for that reason.
I'll shush now. :D I am NOT complaining, so I really hope no one thinks I am. If it sounds that way - then I apologize in advance, because that is not the intent. I'm just stating observations and my thoughts on the subject, is all.
Scene rendered in Iray using Powerages Hard-body set ona G2F character , though it was ment for v4 ,
Yep two pictures of women wearing bits of mens Japanese Great armour and a couple of paintings of women good old Joan as I mentioned earlier and Issabella wearing 15C and 14C harness respectivly. Even if these depictions are true we don't know if the armour they wore was functional, we know they didn't fight and crucially they don't exist anymore so we don't know how they worked. How was the weight distributed? How was it worn and did it do the job?
You then show some film costumes and american Reneisance fair outfits. Again this isn't real its as much a fantasy as the chain bikini. Does it do the job, can you wear it all day and fight in it with out getting exhausted? Where does it rub and chaffe? Do the diffreent angles help disipate force or concentrate it? Armour isn't just sticking a bit of something hard between yourself and the pointy stick. Unless we know these things they are no more correct than a RSS.(Red Sonja special).
Its all fantasy and practical female armour probably dosent look that different to male stuff. Thick padding the thicker the better and some metal.
Well I'm scared. I'd run a mile for sure.
That was....... HILARIOUS! OMG! Wendy, you are a treat!
I see your vintage english boots and raise you something much older.
LOL - you all crack me up!
Just for the record, I want my female fantasy warriors to wear the appropriate fantasy outfit. If I'm going for historical accuracy ...... well I doubt I'll have any female warriors - unless of course it's something with Joan of Ark
What good is fantasy without the fantasy anyway????
... Crud, now I want to render Joan of Ork.
especially if she came running at you yelling "ME WANT SNOO SNOO NOW"
the best outfits are the ones that come as separates that you can kit bash and add different pieces from different products to create something new and different whether you want something you consider more realistic practical or whether you want something more artistic or a combination of both but it'd be nice if more stuff was capable of being layered like tim tim said in another thread on normal clothing being able to have a bra or singlet under a shirt and you can see that it is or underwear under jeans or shorts same goes with the fantasy stuff if you want a full bodysuite under pieces of armour something like the v4 bodysuite you can change different aspects to it or the no suite haven't really experimented with those yet btw Rawart is doing a G7 No Suite seen pictures on his facebook page does have the illusion of a skin tight outfit the way it shows of folds and such probably be really good as a base to add armour parts to
I think thats kind of my point, why complain about a fantasy armour not meeting reality when infact your reality is just as much of a fantasy. There is room for all types, it gets tedious being told your chain mail bikini types are unrealistic. For one, they aren't any more unrealistic than the complete sets of harness for women, both are made up and for second, did you miss the bit about it being fantasy?
Swinging a sword around while wearing a helmet is hard enough, let alone a full set of armor, as these Oxbridge-educated historical reenactors demonstrate.
(And isn't it a bit rude to commandeer a thread about a vendor's product into yet another litany of moral turpitude?)
And if you're made entirely of iron don't stand in the rain while chopping wood.