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O.o That should work.. always works for me and I do this for a living!
Ok, Moving on a hunch...
I've changed the Face Groups of the peice. They were just chest, hip etc...stuff like that. I've now made a face for each part of the outfit. Jacket (leather and buttons), Shoulders (shoulder pieces and attached spikes) etc.
This is a base that will make it easier for further options.
I have selected the choaker face and succsufly made a "rigidity node"..same with the chest chain. So far, no difference.
Rigidity is for morphs, not for posing (and not fro autofitting).
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, Richard...so it will prevent like "fit all" from working, but not "Bend" and "twist"?
Transforms - the bend, twist etc. - are not affected by Rigidity. Nor are custom morphs. Nor is the shape protected by any rigidity maps when you use AutoFit to convert it to another figure. All that Rigidity maps do is protect areas when DS creates a morph for the clothing in response to one in the base figure.
Well I guess Rigitdy might be useful in making the ring holding the jacket together stay a circle...if i can figure out how to make it work.
---
But back to the topic at hand and my not believing this is an impossible thing to accomplish, and wondering why this isn't the FIRST thing on the "to do list" for the programers rather than spitting out another white girl model....
So, armor products like
, rather than be..rigid (for lack of a better term)..bend and twist like clay?
Scavenger: Pretty much.
Your best bet with stuff that has to be rigid is to not fit it, but parent it to the body part in question, and then tweak the scaling to fit. And maybe slap some chain shirts underneath to bring it together. ;)
Is there a way to set an item to follow a pose but not autofit? Show hidden and undial the morphs? (Which is, btw, another thing to try)
Another way to handle it is to look for clothing where they've understood these issues, and made the additional pieces as props or separate clothing, rather than all one piece. The article you've been showing could have been done using props for the collar, epaulettes, and even the chest piece. If that piece were a prop, including the straps around the ring, it would not deform with the character's movements. There might be some issues keeping the straps in alignment with the rest of the vest, but that's a minor headache compared to what you're going through to maintain a sense of even minimal realism.
I know going to a different clothing model isn't your first choice, but sometimes we have to cut our losses. William's suggestion of propping the clothing is also good, but if you're changing the pose of the character a lot, especially in action stances, expect a ton of work.
Plate armor should MOSTLY be fine if you parent it to an appropriate body part. Leather and lamellar and stuff with rings and whatnot, not so much.
I will make this outfit work. I will make a way for people to do this untill Daz implements some type of sane materials options. If objects can be things that don't warp, then there's no reason there can't be a setting to say that parts of an outfit is as well. I don't accept status quo.
The final option is to just make the hard parts objects. But I want to find a better one.
Good luck Scavenger, truly. It's a pain in allot of our arses, all this rididity stuff.
I've encountered the term "stiffness" in Ghastly's freebie thread, so I'm gonna work with that as the term for a while, see what google turns up.
Maybe... keep safesearch on.
Just sayin.
Hi,
I read to the posts and it looks like there is much confusion about the Rigidity Groups and Rigit Weights.
I'm currently working on a geografted item with extra bone rigging and I found this thread here because I want to ask some questions. This is my first attempt to create a custom item in DS and yes I know I stated with the most challengeing thing to do in DS because with this item many things comes together: custom rigging - geografting - UV-mapping - transfer utility - weight maps - morph transfer - auto generated morphs - rigidity groups - rigit weights. But belief me or not im almost at a point where everything works together as I intend it.
I recommend everyone who want to go into detail to grab this tutorial "Rigidity Grouping and Mapping in DS4 Pro" by blondie9999 http://www.daz3d.com/rigidity-grouping-and-mapping-in-ds-4-5
As the title says it is dealing with the version DS 4.5 but the only big diffrence I figured out so far is that in DS 4.5 rigidity groups are defined by polygons and in the current DS 4.8 rigidity groups are defined by vertices. Beside of that this tutorial will definitely give you a realy good overview of all the advanced thechnics to setup items geografted or not with Rigidity Groups.
rigidity groups
So I define my rigidity groups (I have more than one seperated groups on my item) in the geometry editor within the "vertex selection mode". First create a "selection set" with polygon selection with this selected use "convert to vertex selection" in the right-click context menu then DS switches the geometry editor automaticly to "vertex selection" mode (be aware of that you souldn't have made any vertices selections there or clear any vertex selection first before doing this). Now right-click on the "rigidity group" item in the group name list there and choose "Create Rigidity Group from Selected" enter a name and now the selected vertices are defined as "Participants". The next thing I did is I expanded the selection by [Ctrl]+[Numpad+] one time substracted the "Participants" by clicking the minus sign so I get a ring of vertices next to the "Participants" and then I right-click on "References" and "Assign Selected Vertices to Group".
rigidity group editor
Then I played around with the "rigidity group editor" settings that can be found in the right-click menu @ viewport > geometry assignment > rigidity group editor. With these settings you can define the behavior of the rigidity group in conjunction to the transformation and scaling of the figure rig it is fitted to. For one group I defined a reference bone while the other rigidity group works better without a reference bone. Even in the tutorial of blondie9999 it is sayed that there are almost no information to find how the steup in "rigidity group editor" should look like for diffrent attempts. As always its a challenge of trial and error until you get what you want. At this point I ask myself - will the changes made here applied immediately or do I have to run the whole transfer utility process once again to update all the generated morph targets of shaping and posing morphs in my geografted item fitted to the genesis 2 rig?
rigit weights
So once I had defined my rigidity groups I want to have smooth transitions between the vertices of my rigidity groups that acting somehow static to any morphs I apply to the figure it is fitted to and the area of the item that is attached with geograft to the figure and tryes to deform with the morphs and pose movement of the figure. At least this is what I think of painting rigit weight maps are good for. Please correct me if I am wrong. By my experience I think the "References" vertecies of the "rigidity group" will try to stick to and hold the same distance to the original figure vertecies underneath.
But this is only my rough guess - damn I wish the software developer people at DAZ would spend some more time to document the functions and tools they have invented because only they should know exactly what it does - instead of concentrate on new software features while giving away the program with no warranty what will work and what not. So everyone of us have to go thru a very time consuming beta testing process on our own. Now I think this forum is a good place to share knowledge we discovered while working with DS but detailed informations are hard to find here. I joined and got active in this forum lately but to me it seems like every now and then some people come here and ask the same questions over and over again. Sorry to complain about all that.
But anyway back to rigit weights - I try to achieve these "smooth transitions" with the used of the "Node Weight Map Brush Tool" and carefully painted a rigit weights map. I have selected my geografted figure item root node and added "rigit weights" found under "Unused maps". The map is empty at this point but instead of useing the brush and start painting something red and blue I did it a bit diffrent. I first go to geometry editor and select my "selection set" polygon group that I created for my rigidity group before. With these polygons selected I come back to "Node Weight Map Brush Tool" right-click on viewport "Weight Editing > Fill Selected" and choose 100% so the polygons get red and the influence of the weight map / rigit weights map is at its maximum. Now I expanded the polygon selection by [Ctrl]+[Numpad+] a few times - right-click @ viewport "Weight Editing > Smooth Selected". With this method and some higher smooth values in the "Smooth Selected" dialog box you can get a nice looking transition from red (max map influence) to blue (min map influence) while some polygons outside of the selection are not painted at all. Then I manualy painted these yellow spots at the edges of my selection to the map that are as far as I know somehow reference points to help DS with generating better following morphs. To paint these yellow reference points for me it works the best to use the Paint Brush - X Symetry on - sensitivity value of max. 0.032 - Respect Selection.
My Question
The rigit weights map I have painted seems to have no effect - why? The geografted polygons that are near the original figure body and not defined in the rigidity group vertices are acting as they should in conjunction to shaping and posing. The rigidity group vertices defined as "participants" that are a extension to the original body shape follw the rig how they should but creating distortions at the "refereces" loop of vertecies when I apply character morphs to the genesis figure nothing smooth at all. The only thing I can do about that is to dial in every character shape - export OBJ - create corrective shape morph in a external editor (btw. I use ZBrush polish and/or relax on the unmasked problem area - gives good results) - import OBJ morph and link the corrective shape morph to the charater shape property within my geografted item that got generated with the transfer utility or autogenerated.
I hope some can understand what I am talking about and give me some hint - while others may benefit from the methods I described here.
Greetings,
Just...because this is a common misunderstanding; the programmers have nothing to do with what characters DAZ releases. The programmers work on the program, content artists work on the characters, and the two have very little to do with each other. I'm fairly sure the programmers have an EPICALLY long list of features to work on in DAZ Studio, and unfortunately simplifying the process you are describing is a relatively rare operation. Typically it's something that a PA has to do once, and the buyers benefit. As opposed to, say, rendering an image which all users do many, many, many times. Optimizing the programmers time towards the things that more folks do more often means that this particular crevasse of functionality isn't as clean as you'd like it to be.
But I'll tell you what, if you can figure out how to consistently make objects stiff (for lack of an otherwise-un-overloaded term) in the face of characters bending (optionally and morphing) I'd love to hear it, and see if there's a way to automate it using the scripting capabilities already in DAZ Studio.
-- Morgan
I disagree.
As I've been researching this, i've found tha "Material settings" and simulation seems to be a major thing in 3d modeling programs..yet it's a feature Daz doesnt have.
Daz now comes bundled with a phyiscs based rendering system...yet ignores physics.
You can render very realistic melty armour....Salvaor Dali would be proud.
Lol... Don't confuse your physics-es or your programmers. The unbiased PBR (Iray) that comes with DAZ Studio utilizes the physics of light. Period. And DAZ didn't program it -- NVIDIA did. DAZ didn't program 3Delight either. Truth told, with the exception of the material/shader translation, render engines have almost nothing to do with the programs that they accept image data from. DAZ programmers had to find a way to feed DAZ Studio scene information into the render engine, but that's about where their job ends. If you want THE REST of physics (the Newtonian variety), you'd need a physics engine. Carrarra and Poser have physics engines. As you probably know, DAZ Studio does not. (Perhaps this is why parts of Vicky remain perpetually perky -- there is no gravity in D|S...) And in any event, as noted by larsmidnatt, dynamic/physics-based movement is pretty much the opposite of what you're attempting to do with autofit. I can only speculate, but I'm betting DAZ has put its programming resources toward the thing which makes them money -- selling new content by making it easy for lazy hobbyist artists (like me!) to click their way to beautiful art. Helping content creators (or users who want to dive deeper into "retro-fitting" V7 into V4 clothes) isn't on their top list of priorities because it doesn't do much for the bottom line. Don't get me wrong, adding a physics engine to D|S would be AWESOME. Making what you're trying to do easier would also be AWESOME. But it probably wouldn't be profitable.
Just remember: DAZ Studio exists to sell DAZ products. And, you know, it's free!
Yeah, so... I just realized that this post has nothing productive to add to the discussion of how to accomplish your task-in-question. So feel free to ignore me and carry on. I'm just a physics teacher with too much time on her hands!
Yeah...confusing PBR with dynamics is not what you want to do. Physically based rendering is all about light. Dynamic clothing is all about geometry and gravity. They actually are not directly tied to each other. For many years, before PBR/PBS/PBM etc etc was big in the Poser/Daz world, Daz users have complained about a lack of dynamic cloth in Daz studio. The whole physically based rendering concept for hobbyist is kinda sorta newish. But Dynamic cloth is a lot older.
Even with that said, there are still dynamic clothing tools that don't work so great with metal. Because Metal is great without being dynamic...Metal isn't so dynamic...Cloth is. Dynamic cloth tools don't focus on metal. Trust me. Many of them still require you do make metal ouside of the cloth simulation tool.
If you have found that other tools are better, you really need to use them to judge. Reading and application are two different things.(so is price) I've used a few dynamic tools, and metal has never been their purpose. (nor has super easily autofitting clothing and rigging it for you either).
If you try to make a character from scratch, and fit different clothing to it you may see why Daz is actually pretty awesome. You just have to balance the pros and cons. I find more cons to building characters from scratch. I mostly use dynamic clothing these days but it has it's disadvantages too(like metal is still better to be not dynamic...and not made in a clothify tool)
We should focus on quantum physics if we really want Daz to be ahead of the game. But someone needs help me get past my existential crisis over reality first. Like gravity isn't real and stuff now, I'm so confused.
Schroedinger's millennium cat is both alive and dead. As for the rest of quantum physics... I am uncertain.
Did you ever see the results of V4 after Poser's soft body physics engine ran her over? I don't think forum rules permit me to post the link (because it's on another site's forums) but google "poser lully omg I've just killed vicky" and you'll see the results. Be prepared to laugh. Hard.
BTW, it's worth noting that these issues of what's rigid and what's bendy/floppy/melty are also inherent to Poser's Fitting Room, and Poser HAS a physics engine and clothify-anything dynamics. When you use the Fitting Room, you encounter the same issues as you do with autofit, only worse. (Poser's fitting room is equivalent to Studio's dynamics in terms of usefulness -- theoretically functional, but very limited in practical terms, at least in my opinion.)
If you search the store for NGM - http://www.daz3d.com/posermatic ...
Oh, for sure! I own 'em. A very nice alternative to actual gravity. Waiting for the G3F version!
I was going for an ironic turn of phrase, rather than a literal description.
I never realized they came out with ones for G2F and have been using the Genesis ones this whole time LOL. The V4 ones get a lot of use too (yep on G2F). Just depends on the shape.
Gravity is a myth, the earth sucks!
A year ago I would challenge you. But now I feel I know nothing
I so confused.
Though I do know that black holes don't suck...and I thought they did <mindblown.gif>
It's quantum physics. You're supposed to be uncertain.
And we have totally hijacked this thread.
@ scavenger : I just want to say - dont expect too much from a computer programm - It can only be that good by simulating realistic things as the programmers implement more and more realisticly features to it, also you have to know how to use them to get exactly what you want, but still its a simulation and can only get near to reality.
Nowdays scientists use very expensive computer based simulations to forecast the future of the whole universe, they still have some troubble with that and who knows if they have implement everything so this simulation is like reality and forecasts exactly what will be the future.
We as 3D hobby artists can be happy to get such a nice programm like DazStudio for free. I think I know what I am talking about I have used for exaple also Poser for some years now and tryed to shrik-wrap victoria 3 clothes to victoria 4 this is a tricky thing to do also. Still I prefer to use DazStudio over Poser since I get used to it and its far more userfrindly and full of nice features that Poser is lacking of.
If you want to experiment more with rigit-, cloth- and softbody- physics simulations you should take a look what "Blender" is capable of in that domain and you can have this also for free.
I have just began to learn how to use some blender features and think of ways to get them into DazStudio.
Select the polygons you wish to influence and click with the right mouse button on the viewport to get a menu. From the menu select Weight Editing - Fill Selected and in Fill Selected Faces window set the weight value to fill with to zero. This will remove all the weight (by "painting" it with weight 0).
Hmmm, not tried that yet. Good suggestion. Thanks Ben!