whatever happened to the hexagon revamp?
Xade
Posts: 236
a few years ago, back when I was active with Daz, hexagon was going through a complete overhaul. But now, when I come back I find that the beta has been dropped and it's still the same old clunky and crashy software that I knew and hated. So, what happened? did Daz loose interest in hexagon? they should have a send to Blender option. Once you learn Blender you dont want to go back! :P I know belnder and miss it when it comes time to adjust something for the models I'm working on. At least that doesnt crash so often that it makes me want to scream in frustration :P
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Not everyone wants to deal with blender, though I don't see the harm in an optional plugin for that. I hope they keep the send to Hex button for DS 5.x cause I still find it useful for a lot of routine tasks even though when I have time I try to get practice in other modelling tools. I don't always have time to learn, and sometimes need to get things down quick so I ended up modelling some basic furniture that was needed for a project in hex this past weekend even though I'm trying to leave it behind for modelling and only use it for morphs.
hex almost never crashes on me when I make morphs, and not very often when modelling. I know everyone's mileage varies however.
mine is always crashing, maybe when I get windows 10 it wont crash as often (yeah right! LMAO) I'm not saying to remove the bridge, I too find it somewhat handy for a quick edit, but seriously, they really need to get off their tails and do something with hexagon. It's been 7 years. How hard could it be to pick up the old thing, dust it off and try it again? They redo daz, why not Hex? Id pay for a good copy of hexagon. I mean really good. Same tools, just no more crashes and faster interface. 64bit hexagon for the win!!!
Last release of Hexagon was 4 years ago, not 7. As for DAZ Studio vs. Hexagon, DAZ Studio is the flagship product that is available for free in order to propel content sales. That's what DAZ is -- a content company. The software is a means to an end, not an end in itself, which is why DAZ Studio is available for free (and so was Hexagon for a long time; even now it's essentially free compared to other commercial modelers). The number of people who consume content far outnumbers those who create content. If the reverse were true, then Hexagon, Bryce and Carrara would be the flagship products and DAZ Studio would be getting less attention.
well, yes, that is true, when you put it that way. However, I also find the best use for hexagon is adjusting and removing magnet fits. Example, I bought the magnet fits for Aiko 4 in order to fit the v4 bodysuit expansion pack to a heavily modified a4. There is some pokethrough and rather than fiddle with the magnets, I sent it, and the "dummy a4" that I made to hexagon and am currently adjusting the kowl to fit my version of a4 for my comic. If they would just stablize it better then I would be quite happy.
last update was 9 years ago .
Bryce and Carrara users have been trying really hard to get DAZ 3D to recognise that Carrara and Bryce also propel content sales. DS may be the front runner, but Users of the other programs also buy content.
There is a thread in the Carrara forum which shows to a certain extent how much is spent on non program specific conetent, "normal" DAZ 3D store content.
Hexagon needs to be treated differently to Bryce and Carrara in this respect, as Hexagon is purely a creation tool, a modelling program, adn I know for a fact that there are people arund who still use it to create content, some of which is in teh DAZ 3D store. So maybe not a flagship product, but it shouldn't be ignored.
Hexagon is a creation tool that is in dire need of an overhaul. It needs to become more stable and requires 64 bit support.
you're not whistling in the wind there, sir/ma'am if it was 64 bit then it would be a lot better. Nothing I hate more than the dreaded out of memory crash. I can tell when its getting close, the graphics will get a little wonky. I often save and restart when possible.
I would still buy content, even if hexagon was improved. Heck, half the time I buy things cause it fits what I need and so I dont have to build it in Blender and fight to get everything just so or I want the outfit.
Maybe DAZ should make it Open Source and take advantage of the large number of developers and testers willing to dedicate their free time. I'm 30+ years experience and willing to improve it. Who's on next?
Sorry, that's just not true. 2.5.1.79 was released 4 years ago.
[edited to correct version number, thanks Chohole]
I think you mean 2.5.1.79
hexagon will be dealt with after the release of carrara then bryce update. you can figure out when each will be released by playing a little thought experiment.
assume the sales of these packages did not even break even on the development cost, but they could generate more sales of content which represent 90% of your revenue. what priority would you give each one starting with daz studio, then carrara, then bryce, then hexagon. so if daz studio gets a major update every 12 months, how often would you update the other packages so that they increase your content sales to pay for their cost and bring more profit?
how much profit does it bring to DAZ venture capital to open source hexagon?
when you answers these questions, you can reasonable predict when a new version will be released.
all this is just my personal opinion.
NONE of my opinions are meant to knock DAZ 3D, just to clarify that this is all based on profitablity decisions. When Dan and Chris ran DAZ they made those decisions too, but I think DAZ was their baby and so personal preferences may have trumped profit and loss on some occassions.
yeah, Hexagon should be open source. I mean Blender has come a long way since it was released as opensource. They make plenty of money on the content, they could turn hexagon into open source and provide a nice incentive to sell in the daz 3d store.
To me it's a terrible shame that Hexagon gets spoken about badly (I'm not getting at anyone here). I just think that it started out as a brilliant new replacement for the mature Amapi program but wasn't given the attention it needed to develop.
Successful software is usually created with a few bugs and with features not fully implemented. Then version 2 gets released to introduce improvements and to fix bugs. The cycle continues until the product is mature.
Hexagon is, to me, like a healthy young plant that was stuck in too small a pot and then left there. Now it looks unhealthy but no-one seems to be around who would know how to care for it.
In my opinion Bryce and Hexagon are dead! I remember when Bryce 7.5 came out there was a post from DAZ telling of all the great things that were planned for Bryce 8 and Hexagon 3 that were just around the corner; then the economy tank, and new management took over, nothing more has ever been said on the subject. That was over seven years ago. Hexagon and other software are created by dreamers who put their heart and soul into to their dreams. When the dreamer’s gone so is the dream. Those who are left don’t care about the dream; they only care about the bottom line. Don’t me get wrong; love of a dream will not pay the bills. If Bryce and Hexagon were up to date and running well, they should sell for over $300 a copy (which is what I paid for my first copy of Bryce over a decade ago). I just don’t think there are enough people willing to pay that much.
All that said, back over 15 years ago when I first got into Poser, Poser was badly in need of an update, which it hadn’t happened in years. The Poser community stepped up and found work-a-rounds for the bugs and ways to use bugs to make Poser do thing that weren’t originally in Poser. They leaned how to hack Poser to create new tools. I don’t see that happening anymore, to many people sit around and lament that DAZ has left their favorite software twisting in the wind. I say screw DAZ we don’t need them. It’s time for the community to step up; Bryce and Hexagon are not going to be updated so it up to us to find work-a-round for bug fixes and ways to hack these programs. I know there are people out there that can do this. If you care about Bryce or Hexagon you need to stop complaining about DAZ not updating your and do SOMETHING, if not then Bryce and Hexagon are likely to fade away.
One last thing; there’s always a monthly challenge, so this is my challenge to the community. Come up with a product that can be sold in the DAZ marketplace. If we can come with enough people with products in their marketplace then we can go to DAZ and tell them “If you don’t update our software we will pull our products from your store in mass, and you will receive no new products from us.” This may or may not work, but it will hit them where they live; their bottom line.
DS Creative 9 (march 2015)
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_09
Page 21, question 13 to 15.
Thanks Gigi_7, I hadn't read that article yet. Well that puts the Hexagon question to rest. From the way he answered the questions in the article, and other articles/comments I've read, it sounds like their roadmap is all aimed at Daz Studio integration with other 3D packages (3D Max?) and a strong focus on GPU full-time rendering. Maybe basic mesh building within DS itself, along with replication for scene building. When you look at what they did with Genesis 3 and its simplified mesh that could move to other products, as well as a focus on iRay shaders, it seems to me they want to move content sales to markets beyond DS and Poser.
Well I don't know that Iray had anything to do with other markets. Cause other markets would not render in DS. Get the models out..work with them in other tools. Not the quirky daz specific Iray solution. And that Genesis 3 mesh isn't better in other tools than G2F was sadly, unless you don't mind re-rigging it from scratch.
Still waiting on a case study where G3F was better to work with over G2F in external tools. Best we may see is how textures are easier to work with, but not sure about the rigging changes...as that has proven to work much worse in FBX and DAE.
Where I work they still have old MS DOS 3 and MS DOS 5 Machines around.
Well weight painting is currently a problem with moving DAZ tri-ax to Max/Maya weight painting, but it is a problem that could be solved by writing a custom conversion from DAZ format to the Max/Maya formats without FBX or Collada. It is simply a matter of money and time. If DAZ can make a large scale licensing agreement for its content in those formats then Genesis 3/iRay makes that much easier. The argument they can make to a potential buyer is not having to create a library from the ground up, but instead modify an existing library and at a reduced price since some of the development cost is offset by Daz Studio sales. Plus the purchaser may not need to hire as many content creators for their project.
I personally believe this about DAZ 3D finding new markets to sell their library, thereby making the company more valuable/attractive for sale. Venture capital bought the company and at some point they will want to cash out with their profits. The existing customer base is not growing expontially and venture capital don't buy companies to see a modest return, so something has to happen to justify their investment. They have held Daz for several years now. I'm reasonable confident they want to get that big return by now. They could go public, sell it, or license off its intellectual property.