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With V9, those are just textures. No a.e. geometry.
Ah, OK, thank you!
They made the anatomical elements separate from a pro bundle this time, ostensibly so that one doesn't have to buy one of those expensive bundles to get them ;).
They had a chance to improve things. Instead they say "we've never done it that way" ( AKA "famous last words") and here we are with a still pretty much useless product. Very disappointing.
Eyeballs and the adult extensions are definitely linked together, without one the other is not as much fun either
Which is in itself a really sorry affair in a time, where customer feedback is considered a vital resource in the industry. Quite a while I called DAZ a "multinational Mom&Pop shop" because of their ways to communicate - or rather don't communicate - with their customers. Since then it even went downhill further imo.
And if this forum is there only to interact with peers and the general community, it leaves the result that there is no way for customers to communicate with DAZ, except for the slightly less helpfull Ticket Service, which might or might not be able to deliver a solution to problems in an acceptable timespan.
First of all you would expect at least someone from the Daz to make their presence known on the forums and/or other social media platforms. Daz is not a company that primarily deals with only other companies (or at least the store part of the company is not). It's essentially a consumer goods company albeit offering virtual items similar to game companies and pretty much all of them have some sort of visible head of communications (a community manager) and a community team that manages the social platforms and keeps the customers (= the community) informed. I'm used to this level of communication and I'm baffled that for some reason Daz folks seemingly don't see any value in it.
Now I do appreciate that Richard (and Cris) keep open some communication channels with the company but it's clear they can't speak on behalf of the company itself without checking first.
Secondly I think I either wasn't clear enough or was purposely misunderstood but I'm not really expecting the company CEO to pop up to forums and deal with complaints or just chat with us. What I meant is that Daz does pretty poor job of passing information from development team and management to us - and seemingly vice versa. You would expect there to be an official community manager who can say "sorry, we botched the release but please bear with us while we fix stuff". Bonus points if there's active development team who chats with us about potential future stuff and clarifies issues. Instead of that it is radio silence which makes them appear like they don't care at all. Not caring at all is not something a consumer company wants to portray.
It's job of the community manager to take the brunt of the complains, pass them ahead and diffuse the situation with some official word from the development team/management. Especially if they screw up releases as badly as Daz does. Just saying sorry goes a long way. Richard or Cris can't do that since they don't represent the company albeit they likely do get the brunt of complaints.
Similarly a lot of bellyaching around genesis 9 implementation could be avoided IF someone from the dev team said "hey, we decided to go this route because of <insert technical explanation here>. Sorry it it doesn't work for you but we thought that it was the best way to do it".
*Also apologies to Cris for confusing her to Daz employee and to a "him". It's the logo and the name...
I should have been more clear that my response was directly to this post. Honestly - with the level of constant indignation its a wonder there's reponses at all.
The dev team has been answering questions - I have a whole thread dedicated just for clothing. We explained the reasoning a lot of the decisions. From the amount of time its taken me away from working and paid work, I totally understand now why its better to just avoid the forums completely.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/597726/genesis-9-clothing-questions
I create tickets only if I have issues, not to give feedback. I don't think I've ever seen any reply to a feedback in any system other than "thanks for your feedback".
Honestly I wasn't aware you are Daz staff or that it was your job to handle communication relations. I do appreciate you explaining things though. Perhaps you can comment on why the sales decisions were so confusing (i.e. all the confusion with character essentials and with the release cycle and all the issues of folks who preordered stuff not getting their preorders before folks who ordered later etc). What was the idea behind that and what went wrong?
Its not my job to handle communication relations. I'm not on the sales team. I did explain several times about the character essentials still in testing. If I know the answer to a question asked I will try to answer it. I can answer questions about clothing. If you have a question about clothing fire away - I'm listening.
I don't think clothing is the issue here. Actually I don't even think the way how genesis 9 is implemented is the issue here. The "indignation" you mentioned, I feel, is largely because of the botched release and lack of communication related to it. Naturally there are folks who are unhappy with how genesis 9 was implemented. Not much anyone can do about that and you certainly have shed some light over the reasons. Not disputing that at all.
This doesn't help much people who preordered and didn't get their preorders before folks who ordered later, or at all, and folks got confused over what was in what package, what was supposed to be in what package and over the release schedule. There wasn't as much as a "sorry" for them.
Additionally while you have a direct communication channel to development team and can ask questions any time you want and get answers, and also get preferential access to a lot of stuff as a PA... well, a lot of us don't. Whether that is fair or not is of course up to debate, seeing that you actually provide stuff to be sold here while the rest of us merely consume it - that is purchase it. I don't think it is entirely fair for either us or you that we have to depend on you to get that information.
I'm still a bit on the fence if I should purchase more Genesis 9 stuff. I actually have the essential shapes bundle in my cart but I'm growing more and more unhappy with "stuff it, you buncha whiners" style replies to something I feel is valid criticism to actually push the buy button, and I wasn't even subject to the preorder mess. I just think this is all very poorly handled and I'm not sure I wish to reward such behavior. I also think I've been rather mellow in my criticism in that the only accusation I've thrown is that Daz does poor job managing their communication and releases - and I'm ready to stand behind those words.
Eh. Maybe I'm getting too worked up over something that doesn't really affect me that much. Certainly something to consider and I suspect I'm about done with this subject as well... I don't think me buying or not buying something is going to fix what is wrong (from my perspective) with Daz's way of approaching this but one can hope.
Edit: on a positive note there seems to be people who are happy with today's releases
I can assure You, that we're all really glad that You give the answers that You are able to give.
Alas, it doesn't help in case of the existing communication problem due to a lack of communication staff or because of a job description for the - maybe - existing communication staff, which seems to lack anything about that and/or how communication with the customers except through a ticket system, which usually is only used by customers when they have a definitive problem with a product, should be handled.
Try putting it in the cart and see if the price goes down, think it did for me.
Well, it does say on the promo page: "Get the Bundle for just the price of the Items you don't own!"
TD
It's on today's promo page https://www.daz3d.com/from-the-scottish-highlands Of course the scroling banner for that is after the banners for the Gift Card and lingerie promos.
And that's why the role of a Community Manager is an important one. You're right that you shouldn't have to spend time dealing with it when you've got more important things to do, but it's still a function that needs to be fulfilled.
And the job of Moderators, while important too, does not carry the same, for the lack of a better word, "authority" as the Community Manager role which speaks officially on behalf of the company. It's also a pretty thankless job at times. I couldn't do it, I'd get too frustrated.
Thank you very much for that information ,I was ready to kick my own butt for giving in and buying the G9 Starter Essentials Expansion ,cause it's in the bundle.
@Mada thank you very much for trying to calm down the impatient ,angry masses , and yes you are right sometimes it's just safer to watch the madness ,and feel sorry for Richard and Cris ...... and if I'm not mistaken aren't you the creator of the wonderful "Lost Realms" mertails? and can we see a mertail for G9 from you ? Sorry I couldn't help myself !!!
To all all the impatient ,angry masses ,why be so angry?Smile laugh you live longer !!
I think Character Essentials is much more useful for anyone not buying Victoria. Otherwise it doesn't add much. I would also just go third party when it comes to those anatomical elements.
WOW, got the Anatomical bits but not even a simple transmap for the pubic area for the male toast? That's pretty lame, I have to say. I don't mind that there are no textures but at least a blend map for it would have been nice.
The toast textures and maps suffered a slight... mishap... in the toasting process.
to be fair my issue with the essentials is not the "format" which i feel it is much better than the old "selling in the pro bundles format and let's be honest the majority of peoples buying the essentials is more for the "anatomical elements", than the "eyebrow and others stuffs mats, and my big disappointment is about the lack of the "mats" for the gens, since its a pack full of "mats", and nothing having mats for the gens is like the product now come missing stuffs, which already make the g9 even less desirable again for a "game dev point of view" at this point would be much better just go use metahuman than daz, because both use the same "cheap uniform body topology", but metahuman is much better optmized and "free" and the "extra money you would have to expend on metahuman to add gens and others stuffs in the end would be the same to pay for metahuman, but metahuman for unreal will give you better results, g9 can only be the "real deal' when going unity, but for unreal currently between g9 and metahuman hands down metahuman, when compared both meshes and they limitations.
currently g8 still a much better option for game dev than g9 which looks more like a "full render" model than a actually one which can be used for game.
as i've told daz lost on g9 what make it "a good option" for metahuman, because metahuman is a very limited model for the same reasons as g9 become a very limited and full dependant on "high hd", making base mesh looks really a useless option.
Also the UV layout is not really that good, like it was rushed. Here is the map for anyone that wants to try to figure it out. I did a little bit of work on it in my UV program so the Head is defined, the base or pubic is mapped out, yea that large squarish area in green with the huge hole in the middle and those other bits in green on the sides is the pubic area. Again not really intuitive or nicely unwrapped. Might be fine for those painting in a 3D painting program but for some of us we like to tweak the maps a bit in Photoshop and well... that layout is just sort of a nightmare for that sort of work!
Does anyone else remember when the president of the company DID post on the forums? You remember when Platinum Club used to get sneak peaks at upcoming characters? Ok, yeah, the masses still complained that they didn't like XYZ about whoever's shape... but it felt like people/The Company cared and or listened in those days. These days, not so much.