Concerned and I feel I need to say this...
Cyrinadia
Posts: 164
3dUniverse's Skyler character is adorable! A very realistic looking child morph, and I've known kids that looked very similar. I must admit I have enough concern over one of the promo images to mention it. There is a line with child characters that you should not cross, and her in the gypsy top is pretty close to that uncomfortable line. Why? Because she successfully appears as a child-like character in revealing adult clothing, I can understand bikinis since young kids often swim in their knickers, but adult revealing clothing is a bit close for me to be happy with. Yes, she is based off the Genesis 2 woman figure but still... please be careful. Also, I am aware this topic is a can of worms. It needs to be said though.
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Comments
Thank you, I thought the same thing.
I agree. That seemed a bit iffy to me as well.
I totally feel ya ROTU but unfortunately this will fall on deaf ears.
Sadly, I cannot elaborate more than that because last time my comments were removed. :(
Well, be sure to dress her conservatively then if it makes you feel uncomfortable lol. Problem solved right? Or are you suggesting daz ought to pull that promo render?
I don't think the OP was asking for a removal. There are different ways to showcase a figure/character.
And if a customer is feeling uncomfortable they should be able to say so. It is a serious and valid topic.
Like Nadino said. To clarify: I remember watching a TV show in which they had taken 'sophisticated' photos of children and the artists were unconcerned because they were focused on the artistic composition side of the project and the child was just a figure. To others', not being so wrapped up in the composition, i.e: the viewers; it appeared to sexualise the child. They pointed out the pose and the 'bed-hair' as being the cause for their concern. The artist herself was surprised to learn that this is what was being perceived, as to her the photo was beautiful, and it would have been if the model was a woman and not a little girl.
Like the viewers, I want to point out that artists need to remember that a child-like figure is a child for all intents and purposes, to the viewer. I personally would not want to see my 7-9 year old child dressed in revealing adult clothing and nor would I dress her such. For this particular image; the Jeans, no worries, the boots, they're nice, but the top is obviously an adult level top.
Yes, explore fantasy but also remember what is being explored can bridge a taboo subject and can have implications beyond what the artist probably intended as with the above artist. I am skirting around certain words here but we're all adults and we should have some control over what should and should not be.
Just be aware is all I ask, and be aware that the mentioned image is about the level of mentionable discomfort for child based images.
And props to 3dUniverse for making a character that can evoke this level of discussion.
Having been to several dance recitals with young kids, I'll point out that allowable clothing styles are going to vary wildly.
(And sheesh, some of the songs... Concrete Angel?? Really?)
Lol, that's for sure. Music vids are still open territory. I think if Nikki Minaj's gelatinous booty jiggles while also thinking of the two little girls who idolise her that were on Ellen.... eesh.
I still don't understand. It's your choice what you dress her in. No one is telling you to slap a stringkini on her and do a render. Or is it you are concerned with what others are doing with her? If that is the case, don't even bother. People are gonna do what they are gonna do, stressing about what others might do with a 3d character is just unneeded stress in your life lol.
I think we're talking about promos not what others are going to do with her. I could really care less what others put her in or do with her.
I just don't feel comfortable with her or any other perceived "child morph/character" being shown in the same or similar manner as the other adult females in the store.
Clothing wise or pose wise on this store. We're not talking about peoples photo galleries or private sites or even other sites. This site.
Just voicing an opinion, as I'm sure there will be plenty of others that will follow with this whole thing being a none issue just like the other threads.
It's probably just perception differences I guess. I don't see anything wrong with it, but then, I also grew up with dancers and cheerleaders. A lot of people also say the same about the outfits they wear, though the kids wearing them, and the cheering audience(family and friends of the competitors), are not seeing anything sexual about the outfits. It's the same with their makeup, plenty of outsiders complain about that too.
There's nothing wrong with voicing these concerns. However, I would suggest submitting a support ticket to sales, as those are the people who need to hear your concerns.
Not that it makes any difference, but I also agree with ROTU. The moment I saw that promo image, I thought "oh we're going to be discussing that tomorrow". It's not as simple as "the customer can dress her however they want"; we're talking about the advertising intended to sell a product. It is always better to be safe than sorry when it comes to children and sexuality.
Just my opinion, but I would not have used that outfit, especially on the primary promo image.
* edited a couple times for clarity
The promo art bothered me when I saw it this morning.
Again as Nadino said, it is about this particular promo image and DAZ 3D, mostly. I know for some it's become normalised in their social circles to see recital makeup and dance clothes (though I can only picture ballerina leotards and cutesy dresses for pageants), and that's ok. I also haven't the mental/physical capacity to care what people do with the figure after they purchase her unless they put it in a public gallery and I know people will use discretion there.
My main concern is mostly that DAZ 3D is a reputable site (even with string-kini and leather :-) ) but to see a promo image which makes me feel uncomfortable is a bit of a shock and actually really unusual for this site (I've actually been a DAZ3D buyer for a long time). It is a perception thing as well. I perceive the character to be very young, between maybe 5-9 years old.. though mostly towards nine. I would not be as concerned if the outfit was on teen Josie. I just want the promotioners to be aware that that image is uncomfortably close to the 'line' that some of us have and that they have not crossed it yet, but it is close and nor have they come close before.
She is 12 years old, at least that is what the texture files say :P
But no, not saying your perception of it is wrong at all. When I first saw that image, it struck me as an image of a girl on the way to the beach. I just thought nothing of it.
Greetings,
So...there's two shots with the Gypsy top (sorry, that's the OP's term), one has a sport-bra-type-thing underneath it, and it works really well IMO. Honestly, I've known 12 year olds who would LOVE to wear clothes like that. Filmy, spangly, dangling sleeves and frills and all that; I've known parents who were cool with it, and ones which weren't.
I don't think the closer picture, with the bra-like top (the swimsuit top, I think) is problematic. The further away one, where it's lacking is an 'I can see folks having an issue', maybe. The problem is this; one of the things character promo pictures need to convey is the body shape. For a character like this one, that's really hard to do without someone raising just this issue... Maybe the swimsuit picture from the clothes pack could replace it, and convey the character shape well enough?
-- Morgan
This character looks like as though she is 9 at absolute tops. Baby faces work on the adult figures because the adult body shape is not ambiguous, but to put a baby face on an undeveloped body just makes her a baby again. No way is this figure 12 no matter how she is labelled. The banner ad is the image of most concern because she is posing with her chest out which in a female adult would be to show she has a feminine form. I agree that she'd need to be in a one piece swim suit or in a tank top to show the figure for sales purposes if this pose was to be re-used.
If she is a toon figure, as I know the creator generally is, then the 'tooniness' needs to be emphasized, if just for the sake of decorum. If she is reality based then her face should be altered to reflect a more age-appropriate structure. I like the figure at the age group I see, that of a 7-9 year old. She is adorable. But keeping what age I see in mind, maybe you can see why I would think it's a bit much. If the creator says 12, then it could be more appropriate but again.. baby-faces only work on more adult figure bases. She looks 7-9.
Greetings,
The textures are named Skyler12yo, so take the artists intention for what it is.
And in the future, when folks ask why there aren't more kids items, we should put a pin in this thread and link to it with the link-text, 'Because it's a minefield.' :)
-- Morgan
Skyler is an excellent character and it's awesome to have a youthful fresh face (that's not a Thorne character, no offence Thorne <3) but, yes - more conservative promos would have appealed to me more. (I had no problem with the gypsy top though - only the swimwear, squeamish prude that I am...)</p>
At the end of the day though, Daz wouldn't have allowed sus promos.
3DUniverse were the vendors who pulled one of their popular older teen characters out of the market (rendo, many years ago when they were new to the poser world) when they realised some websites had artists using the teen for sexualised renders. They were unaware of this type of thing and I firmly believe any discomfort the new Skyler promo is causing is completely unintentional out of their naivety and they would be horrified to find out about the unintended effects.
The top is from a DS tutorial pack, dancer something? I guess they just chose it randomly to test out their self made clone autofitters.
Anyway, I think a simple message sent to them will rectify the situation :) Can't guarantee it won't happen again as I said I think they are naive about this... and that's ok, just let them know, no dramas :)
I also agree with the OP. Too revealing. Fresh promo renders are a great idea.
Though I respect your concern, a lot comes down to perception. We created Skyler to be an early 12 year old, and every kid we know that sort of age is just beginning to explore fashion, etc. the clothing we show Skyler in is actually very conservative compared with what most 12 year olds wear in South Africa.
I personally think most of the reaction in this thread is a bit over-the-top (no pun intended). DAZ would have been very quick to give their feedback had they felt that our marketing image was in any way sexualizing a child.
That's the difference though, a lot of us are thinking like the Westerners we are, and that sort of outfit on a child over here is a little questionable.
DAZ's mindset when it comes to promo images is sometimes...curious though. ;)
DAZ's mindset when it comes to promo images is sometimes...curious though. ;)
And if we as merchant were to ensure our products didn't offend anybody, we'd be making... well, nothing.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it's just that.
And frankly...that would be very offensive.
In Georiga (the bible belt) as well.
I will admit I wore somewhat more sophisticated clothing as a child back in 1970, "hippy style" clothes as this is.
My mother was an avid sewer and knitter/crocheter so skimpy by todays standards crochet tops not unusual on me.
AND she was a teacher at my school!
Sexual thoughts never entered either of our heads, pedophillia was unheard of still in those halcyon days (though existed but not not on the public radar yet) I was just dressed "trendy".
I wore pants too as in jeans when younger and they were actually banned at the school and boys and girls had seperate playgrounds but my mother and a fair few other teachers stuck their foot down there!!! Said to cold in winter for dresses and no good for sport and got rules changed.
About the 90's things changed and the world went casual sports clothes everywhere and nowadays is all kids seem to wear.
It's not the product anyone has a problem with, it's the way it's presented in one particular pic. And yes, it is just opinion but no one who's bringing it up wants the product pulled or anyone to get in trouble. We just think it's smarter to play it safe for the benefit of everyone, especially when the change being suggested would do no harm and cost no sales.
Whoever approves the promo pics is apparently not offended by anything...that might explain the non-stop voodoo promos for Darius and Monique. ;)
Anyway, she is a very cute character and people really seem to like her!