Thinking of buying a new computer
rcousineau2007_22c883170d
Posts: 69
in The Commons
I'm currently using a 10 year old computer with Intel core i7 6700 GPU, 8 gigs of ram and an Nvidia GeForce GT730 graphics card. Large scenes bog down and dForce simulations are almost impossible.
I'm looking at a desktop with 12th gen Core i7 25000 GPU, 16 gigs of ram and an Nvidia GeForce RTX 3060 Ti graphics card. How much difference is a new computer going to make in terms of rendering speed, dForce simulations etc? Iray renders are pretty much out with my present computer unless you don't mind waiting the better part of a day for the image.
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Your GT 730 probably isn't doing anything for your renders unless you're rendering a single figure on a transparent background, so that 3060 will make a world of difference. I'd recommend bumping your system RAM up to 32Gb if you can swing it, or your system RAM can potentially throttle the GPU.
If you want a computer for rendering in Iray, I might recommend the 3060 rather than the 3060 ti because it has more VRAM. You'll be able to render larger scenes with less fiddling to keep them from dropping to CPU rendering. The ti will be better for gaming, but I haven't looked into the performance differences between the two in games.
...those 12th gen Intel CPUs have an odd core configuration which splits the cored into two categories, performance and efficiency. the performance cores are hyperthreaded, the efficiency cores are not. So on a 12 core i7 12700 CPU you only get a total of 20 instead of 24 threads. The processor's graphics will do nothing for Iray rendering.
For about the same cost (405$ at Newegg) you could do just as well if not better going with a Ryzen 9 5900X that has a full 24 threads and lower TDP. As you are apparently looking at an RTX 3060 you don't need the integrated graphics the i7 12800H and HX have. The only advantage of the Intel Alder lake CPUs is 4 more PCIe lanes. and PCIe 5.0 connectivity (which is not in the offering yet). Depending on the model you are looking at the H series has TDP of 115w and the HX 157w. The Ryzen 5900X has a TDP of 105w.
I thought about upgrading the computer that I'm currently running but I haven't been inside a computer for 15 years and I have some concerns. Newegg has the Ryzen 9 5900X for $409 but will it fit the existing socket in my computer? Secondly, do I need to upgrade my motherboard which literally means rebuilding the computer, and finally do I need to upgrade the graphics card?
You would have to look up your motherboard to find out what CPUs will work with it. Do you know what one you have? If you want to render with Iray, then you do need to upgrade your graphics card. It looks like your card only has 2GB of VRAM, which means most of your scenes are too big to fit on your card to render. When that happens, your graphics card can't render the scene, so it can only be rendered by the CPU, which is much slower. For Iray, you want an Nvidia card with as much VRAM as you can afford. That's why the GeForce 3060 (12GB) could be a better option for rendering then the 3060 ti (8GB) if you like to have more complex scenes.
Absolutely not. AMD CPUs are far more interchangeable than Intel, but they're not interchangeable WITH Intel, and your motherboard would need to have an AMD chipset anyway
If you get a CPU that isn't compatible with your current motherboard, yes. If you can install sufficient RAM and a current GPU in your current board, then no.
More than anything else, at least where rendering Iray in DS is concerned.
If you have a choice, go with a new computer rather than trying to salvage your old one.
Think of it like a car; how much are you going to invest and how much more use will you get? It might not be cost efficient if you start a domino effect of different parts... Only to have something major fail and then you have to get a new PC anyway.
...Not that anything like that has ever happened to me.
...what is your current CPU?
Intel tends to change with nearly each new CPU release so for the 12th generation Intel i7 (Alder Lake), which uses the LGA 1700 socket, you would likely need a new motherboard.
On the other hand the AM4 socket supports all generations of Ryzen CPUs currently in use. Threadrippers use the TR4 or sTR4 socket depending on generation. The next generation (Zen 4) Ryzen CPUs will use the new AM5 socket which will be an LGA (Land Grid Array) based socket where the pins are on the motherboard than the PGA (Pin Grid Array) where the pins are on the CPU. The difference pretty much comes down to personal preference. Some feel it is easier for the pins on the CPU to be bent or damaged than those on the motherboard while others find it easier to fix such issue on the if they are on the CPU.
updating an older machine does have its good points, for one it will save some money as you can simply use the current drives and possibly PSU you have This way you don't have to go through the process of reinstalling everything (particularly your Daz library/runtime which for some can be a monumental process).
Keep in mind the newer CPUs do draw more power so cooling is a concern. Air coolers tend to be fairly large while closed loop water cooling systems need provisions for the radiators so your existing case may not be compatible.
So, you're "Thinking of buying a new computer"? Take a deep breath, hold it, relax, now let it out slowly. And out with the bad air goes the craving for a new computer. Yeah, I know, impractical advise. Never worked for me.
Now that that is out of the way, then unless you have particular professional needs or goals that require a solid platinum & diamond encrusted machine, a very satisfactory hobbiest DAZing machine could be had for about $1000 plus the cost of a graphics card at at least $450 more.
Reasonably priced parts. The following are suggestions for decent quality parts. But be sure to study catalog details or use a parts-picker software to help asure that the parts are all compatible.
Basic modern case; $80 CoolerMaster is just fine. Thick case designs are easier to build in especially in the partition behind the motherboard as you're trying to hide all those cables. The Coolermaster MasterBox NR400 micro-ATX works just fine for me. And the NR-600 is similar but more costly, for full ATX motherboards.
Powersupply: at least 650w $100 Corsair, period! Get a 750w or 850w powersupply if you plan to someday get an RTX-3070 graphics card or above. Keep in mind that the 30xx "Ti" versions run hotter and need more power. And besides, the 3060Ti only has 8GB VRAM instead of 12. For DAZing you want the 12GB versions.
Motherboard: 500 series ~$90 4-RAM slots(if you someday plan to add more RAM), at least one M.2 NVME socket. I like ASUS, but that's a religious issue like browsers and anti-virus software. Be sure to get one with the right CPU socket (Intel or AMD) that matches your CPU choice.
CPU: Intel 10 or 11 series, with about a 4xx or 7xx feature set. $250 Or AMD: Ryzen-5 5500G at $200. The "5500G" (NOT the cheaper"5500") with its integrated graphics on chip is nice for debugging and emergencies, but not absolutely necessary.
Cooler: air, tower. ~$45 CoolerMaster 212
RAM: 32GB, DDR4, 3200, CL16 (2-stick set) ~$80 Corsair, Crucial or other brands of similar quality.
M.2 NVMe SSD: 1TB, for OS & fast storage access. ~$100 Samsung or Crucial
HDD: 2TB for backups and slow storage ~$70 WesternDigital "Black"
HDD: 4TB for archive storage. ~$100 WesternDigital "Black"
Graphics card: at least an RTX-3060 12GB, ~$450 It's the 12GB feature you're after. The RTX-3080 also has a 12GB version at twice the price.
And of course you need an OS, I leave that up to you, but as a private individual (not a business) I have had no problems with, nor qualms about, using those cheap $10 Win10 licenses.
So, the total of the estimates above is $865 not including the $450 for a graphics card.
Yeah, I admit it's not state-of-the-art nor the greatest machine ever assembled, and lacks pizzaz, bling, and IF(Impress Factor) but the required parts are of good quality, still available, cheaper than current state-of-the-art processors and 600 level motherboards. For a non-professional artist, not worried about assembly-line production time, this would be a tolerably fast and capable machine for DAZing needs.
But if you don't have $1500 laying around, never mind.
(I used to, but then I started building computers.)
Oops, forgot about fans. Add a set of three 120mm fans. 4-pin connectors. ~$35 Antec are perfectly fine unless you are hypersensitive about fan noises, otherwise it'll cost you $100 for a set of 3 quiet ones.
And yes, real people can game quite nicely with a machine like this, but it can't compete with purposly designed gaming rigs with water cooling, extreme overclocking, uber expensive parts and a whole army of hamsters spinning the wheels at the behest of a maniacal, obsessed and well practiced gamer.
And this is why I haven't been able to sell my old 2080ti. It's competing with cards that sold for 1/3 the price.
It sucks when reality bites but the fact is that I'm 75 and living on a fixed pension from the state of Arizona that hasn't changed since I retired for the first time in 2008 (no COLA) and Social Security hasn't even tried to keep up with inflation. The fact is that a prebuilt computer with everything that I want is not financially feasable and I'm just not ready to tackle an upgrade so I can afford something like this: CyberPowerPc with AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 16GB Memory, NvidiaGeForce RTX 3060, 1TB HDD and 500GB SSD. It's got to be better than working with a computer with an Intel core i7 6700 GPU, 8 gigs of ram and an Nvidia GeForce GT730 graphics card, A big factor is that I can pay it off over 12 months.
To quote the Rolling Stones "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes you just might find that you can get what you need.
You don't need to buy a new computer, just the GPU and more RAM for the old one, the i7 6700 is still good, I'm still using i7 that's a generation older than yours.
If there are any small computer shops near you, they could also install the GPU and RAM.
Budget in mind, the RTX 3050 would be easier on the wallet, it only has 8GB's of VRAM, but for the moment it's enough, and will be enough some time into the future if you render smaller scenes and optimize the textures when the scene doesn't fit.
The cost of RTX 3050 is around 300eur (VAT 24% included), where the price of RTX 3060 is around 400eur (VAT 24% included) around here.
A 32GB kit of RAM costs between 100 and 150 eur (VAT 24% included)
Okay, speaking of life's little ironies, does anyone else think its just weird that wihile I'm thinking of putting a new graphics card in my computer or buying a new computer that one of my store credit cards got hacked for $1,938.41 because someone used it to purchase a MacBook laptop? I don't do Apple/Mac. I immediately filed a transaction dispute so I'll see how that goes.
In the meantime I like PerttiaA's suggestion. For the extra $90.00 for an RTX 3060 ($429 at Newegg) that's the way that I'd go. Ram is really dirt cheap relatively speaking so if nothing else I'll upgrade that. My son-in-law and I can do the upgrade so there's no cost there.
My first computer cost 1,500 in 1986 because it had a 20MB harddrive, the envy of everone working with the old 5" floppy disks.
...in the same position finanically though no state pension, just SS. Still working on a system that is over a decade old and updated as far as I could. CPU is a 6 core Xeon 5660, memory is 24 GB of DDR3 1333, the most advanced components are a 250 GB SATA SSD for the boot drive and 2 GB SATA SSD for the Daz Library. The newest component is the 850w PSU that replaced the nearly decade old 750 w one that died. The one saving grace is the Titan-X I was able to acquire, although it's days may be numbers, not from wearing out, but by Nvidia moving it to obsolete status for Iray (i't been on depreciated status since late 2020)
I have a 3060, but it turns out the BIOS on the MB is too old to recognise it even though it has the latest update (well for 9 years ago).
The full update I am looking at is just over 1,100$ (sans the 3060 which I already have). I figured if I'm going to need to upgrade to W11 (as 7 has been totally abandoned) may as well make it are "real" upgrade and not just a temporary "band aid" that will need replacing again in a couple years as I don't see my income improving much either
...my first computer had a 80286- 12 MHz, a 10MB HDD (the size of a brick) two 5.25" floppy drives, a whopping 8 MB of memory and amber screen monitor (no colour graphics), running on DOS 4.1. Writing in a text editor was "loads of fun".
You may need to budget for a PSU as well. The EVGA power supply calculator suggests 450w min for your CPU and a 3060. You'll also need enough 6 pin or 8 pin PCIe power cables for whatever model of card you get. You can get power cable adaptors but the ones available now all seem to be unbranded and of unknown quality.
rcousineau...
What is your budget?
What is my budget? That's a really good question and the answer is basically how far in debt do I want to go.
Right now everything is on hold until I get a hacked credit card issue resolved. I'm willing to spend more if I can pay things off over time.
I just upgraded the ram in my computer from 8 gigs to 40 gigs. It made huge difference as everything loads a whole lot faster and I can throw more people and props into a scene. A new graphics card is next. Maybe at Christmas depending on how finances are doing.
That means that you probably bought 2x16Gb of RAM. The good thing is that another 2x 16Gb could replace the old 8Gb and give you a 64Gb wich is really interesting if you find a way to buy a new RTX GPU.
I'm retired too, and I'm aware that my gear will stay as it is for a long time, but it's good enough for now. (96 Gb Ram and a RTX 3090). I'm lucky I can sell items on my R...sity store, it helps me a lot despite the nowadays crisis here in Europe.
One of the problems I found with RAM is the two-sticks vs four-sticks issue (using DDR4 RAM). If you try to run RAM faster than the base speed of 2133, and use the simple Intel or AMD RAM overclocking methods, sometimes 4-sticks won't work even if they are rated for the higher speed.
I had to solve my problem by abandoning my four 16GB sticks in favor of two 32GB sticks to achieve my desired total of 64GB running at the rated 3200 TPS (Transfers Per Second). Although if I'd persisted I might have been able to manually tweak the RAM parameters to get more than the base speed out of the RAM.
But I found it to be too big of a learning curve.
Old dog, new tricks, situation.
Not to worry though, my 16GB sticks found a home in a couple of smaller computers.
There is always someone in need of an RTX card. Did you ever think about donating it to someone? Pay it Forward Daz3d Style - Page 5 - Daz 3D Forums.
Whether you buy/build new or just upgrade your current rig, skip the 3060 TI 8 GB and go with a 12GB 3060. You lose 1280 Cuda cores but you gain 4GB of much needed video memory (the TI only has 8GB). I have the following fairly powerfull `puter originally built to install a RTX 3090 but finances and availability limited me to a RTX 3060 12GB.
AMD Ryzen 7 3700X, Gigabyte X570 Aorus PRO WIFI , EVGA RTX 3060 12GB, 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z Neo DDR-4 3200 memory, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD, 2 Western Digital Blue WD20EZRZ 2TB HDDs in Raid 1, EVGA Supernova 1200 P2 PSU, Cooler Master H500P Mesh White case, AOC 27G2G4 V-sync Monitor @ 1080p, and Windows 10 Professional 64
This systme started out as a BE720 and was upgraded to an I5 before the current motherboard/CPU upgrade. Everything has been upgraded in the last 5 years, but it was piecemeal due to my budget.
I do mainly nude and semi nude 40's/50's style pinups and using G9/V9 with Cake and Bob's HDRI's I can render a 1920x1080 scene in under a minute. A full UDH 3840 x 2160 render took 5 minutes and 4 seconds. So a RTX 3060 12GB should be more than enough for a hobbyist. Good luch on your build/buy/upgrde.
...same, which is why my system still has a X58 chipset motherboard, 24 GB DDR3 1333 memory (maximum supported), PCIe 2.0x16 expansion slots and a 6 core Bloomfield (LGA 1366) Xeon. Yeah, serious legacy tech here. I need a windfall to even make a fair to middling upgrade.
I added two 16 gig Corsair Vengance LPX 3200 cards since that was what was recommended by Dell when I went to their website and entered my computer model. They cost me $89.00. Back around 2000 I added 256 megs of ram to a computer and it cost me about $250. Chip sets have gotten rediculously cheap compared to the old days.