Just released two older WIPs of my current project

a-sennov

Why should they gather dust on my HD? :) I think releasing them will not spoil much of the story 'cause story is different from what is shown there (well, I've trashed both variants after 'Interstellar' - cannot stand banal movies anymore, even when I film them myself :), so story will be weird, shocking and brutal ), but the material from them (scenes, motions and complete shots) will certainly be used.

First movie: http://vimeo.com/130682875
Rendered in Octane and 3delight, my first approach to 'complete' movie, so there are MANY glitches besides image quality :)

Second one: http://vimeo.com/130683818
Used to be the beginning of final thing but now I'm not convinced anymore - seems too linear and predictable, tried to make something like flashback, it helped, but I doubt it needs MUCH more work on story in general and I have some directions... too many of them, actually... :) Rendered in IRay and 3delight, most frames are not final - just for faster previs, tail of moive is preview-rendered just to complete the music cue and to test how titles work, sound is very basic - more or less in sync with music. Has some modest (in my opinion :) ) nudity - so you're warned.

Urgently need critique on these - tell me what you DON'T LIKE in these and why. I'm in sort of creative deadlock now so your voices may help in some unpredictable way :)

Steve K

Very impressive, the realism of the sets and the natural looking motion. Not much to offer on dislikes, the only thing that caught my eye was the flight of the ship toward the end of the first one, seemed a little unrealistic and quick.

Did you use mocaps for the character movements?

Hermit Crab

These are amazingly well-done, in my opinion. I'd be proud even to be able to build and light the sets in any one of those scenes, let alone animate them so well.

You wanted criticism so I will oblige you with great reluctance.

In the first film, I thought that the jet flames came very close to the man standing by with the welding gas cylinders.

In the second film shown, towards the end, the young woman practicing martial arts moves could perhaps be improved in two ways:

1 I thought that, as she moved from one stance to another, that she might have paused for a tiny amount longer before going on to the next set of movements.

2 in the same set of moves, her eyes, here and there, could have moved in advance of her head movements. I seem to recall reading that, when a head turns, the eyes move first.

I had to work at finding these criticisms!!

a-sennov

Steve K said:

Very impressive, the realism of the sets and the natural looking motion. Not much to offer on dislikes, the only thing that caught my eye was the flight of the ship toward the end of the first one, seemed a little unrealistic and quick.

Thanks, the shots of final part were initially aligned to the music so it dictated the timeframe but now I'm planning to expand it because it's an important part - it will be the beginning of everything, so probably I'll sacrifice the music in favor of more complete story. And landing will not be that hasty then :)

Did you use mocaps for the character movements?

Mostly for walks. Kata is also one huge mocap. Usually I start with aniblocks to build rough plan of what actor should move where and how. Then I use layers to refine animation adding gestures, nods, eye blinks etc. as it is easy in animate2. Then I plot result to Studio timeline and fix limbs in places using IK, clean shaky parts etc. Actually here the process may bounce between animate and Studio several times as I usually forget something or have some bright idea after preview rendering. Then I render shot in lower quality for review, include it in movie chapter it belongs to, view the movie and write down a long list of glitches I spotted. Then reiterate :)

a-sennov

Marcus Severus said:

In the first film, I thought that the jet flames came very close to the man standing by with the welding gas cylinders.

I HAVE to expand this part :) Actually first he forgot about the welding machine completely and was able to evacuate it in last moment. It's almost autobiographic moment - in my case tech forgot his weldings behind the tank exhaust :) Overall, this episode was meant to show his faith in girl's piloting mastery.

In the second film shown, towards the end, the young woman practicing martial arts moves could perhaps be improved in two ways:

1 I thought that, as she moved from one stance to another, that she might have paused for a tiny amount longer before going on to the next set of movements.

2 in the same set of moves, her eyes, here and there, could have moved in advance of her head movements. I seem to recall reading that, when a head turns, the eyes move first.

Thanks, I'll think about it.

Hermit Crab

Hello again a-sennov.

After reading your reply where you described all the effort you've gone to in order to refine your animations I feel bad about the points I made.

In your opening message you seemed to be looking for anything critical that might spark thoughts of your own - otherwise I would have found no fault with your work. (As far as my own animation skills go, I'm on the very bottom rung of the ladder).

I wish to say again that I think your work is brilliant. The scenes are so rich in details with wonderful textures. The female character flying the craft is beautiful. Yes, I did notice such small details as eye blinks in the right places, so my point about eye-movement seems mean to me now!

Oh, I would also say: please don't leave such work on your hard drive! I'd love to see much more.

a-sennov

Marcus Severus said:

In your opening message you seemed to be looking for anything critical that might spark thoughts of your own - otherwise I would have found no fault with your work. (As far as my own animation skills go, I'm on the very bottom rung of the ladder).

I wish to say again that I think your work is brilliant. The scenes are so rich in details with wonderful textures. The female character flying the craft is beautiful. Yes, I did notice such small details as eye blinks in the right places, so my point about eye-movement seems mean to me now!

Oh, I would also say: please don't leave such work on your hard drive! I'd love to see much more.

Nothing is perfect. Sometimes you marvel at your creation too long to see defects that are apparent to anybody else, especially in project THAT long :)

And I had a problem with the overall story: there were two parts that won't connect nicely to each other. Would you do it in strainghtforward way the story would become too... kinky, trash one and it will be boring and linear. But I want some weirdness in it, maybe even some shocking moments but without full story becoming weird which is also banal :)

So I've sat down and tossed chapters and episodes until something was emerged from it. Then I noticed that new intro chapter has almost all shots done or at least in preview-ready state and it is also a concentrate of styles and presentation ideas of whole movie (like pilot episode in TV series). So I've compiled it and added music. And then decided to put it under review of third party (i.e. you :) ), also with previous more or less completed attempt, to test if this new direction is good and people will not find something very wrong in it. So far impressions were very positive so maybe this is right direction, at last :)

Sure, I'll continue :) Maybe I'll split the story into smaller parts - there are moments where it can be logically done, when main hero is asleep, but I shall only do it if it will not affect the flow of the story too much, otherwise we all should wait :)

I also think about project's site, even have domain for it but don't have time :)

Also old short Graduation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atBAnjsyKII) will get facelift with HD, Iray and some more shots and more detailed scenes and it will become the rightful part of story (think prequel).

Steve K

a-sennov said:

... view the movie and write down a long list of glitches I spotted. Then reiterate :)

It sounds like a long process, but the results are very convincing human motion. I would have guessed you were using custom mocap software. I have briefly considered that kind of approach, but I haven't heard of a good, easy to use product at a reasonable price. I have recently moved from Poser format mocaps (e.g. Posermocap sold at DAZ) to imported aniblocks in Carrara, converted/combined with NLA clips. I think this will give me more flexibility, maybe get closer to the results you're getting. I do use Mimic Pro for Carrara, but I try to avoid dialogue because (a) its hard to produce good voice acting, and (b) I prefer visual story telling. A favorite quote:

"At some point about halfway through 2001: A Space Odyssey here's what everyone should be thinking: 'WTF Stanley Kubrick? There's no more dialogue in this movie? I hate you.' No one thinks that because the film is a complete transfixing masterpiece."

a-sennov

Steve K said:

I would have guessed you were using custom mocap software.
I've tried some inhome approaches with kinect or cameras but it doen't actually save time. You still need to clean up the motions, it cannot record group motions so you have to do them one by one and then fit them one to another. So I've ended up using basic mocap block as base and then layer what I want over them. Or do motions from scratch when in need of something unique.

I try to avoid dialogue because (a) its hard to produce good voice acting, and (b) I prefer visual story telling.

Dialogs will have their place in my project - at least, it's the most common way of human communication :) And yes, it's difficult to get right results from voice actors, but it may also be part of fun :)

Steve K

a-sennov said:

Dialogs will have their place in my project - at least, it's the most common way of human communication :) And yes, it's difficult to get right results from voice actors, but it may also be part of fun :)

Agreed. The movie critic Roger Ebert (RIP) once said: 'Someone asked me the other day if I could name a movie that was entirely devoid of clichés. I thought for a moment, and then answered, 'My Dinner With Andre.' ...Wally and Andre meet, sit down, talk for almost two hours. It should be unwatchable, and yet those who love it return time and again, enchanted." So yes, there is good dialogue, and good voice acting, but its tough. My favorite is the original "Toy Story", with Tom Hanks and Tim Allen. "This is no time to panic, Sheriff." "This is the Perfect time to panic!"

a-sennov

'12 angry men' come to mind. Or it Russian remake named just '12' :)

Steve K

a-sennov said:

'12 angry men' come to mind. ... :)

Yes, a favorite of mine also. Going to the other extreme, I really enjoyed the Oscar nominated animation "The Triplets of Belleville" (2003), with almost no dialogue. Peter Travers (Rolling Stone) said: " ... this bracing blend of silliness and sophistication from France. Writer-director Sylvain Chomet doesn't need subtitles to tell a story that unfolds in a series of extraordinary images involving a boy, a dog, the Tour de France, the French mafia and jazz-playing triplets. It's comic, touching and a visual knockout." Roger Ebert: "[It] will have you walking out of the theater with a goofy damn grin on your face, wondering what just happened to you."

BTW, Ebert and the IMDB voters liked the Russian "12" also. The trailer at IMDB looks pretty good.

a-sennov

Steve K said:

I really enjoyed the Oscar nominated animation "The Triplets of Belleville" (2003), with almost no
dialogue.
Just watched it and it was a lot of fun :)

I
BTW, Ebert and the IMDB voters liked the Russian "12" also. The trailer at IMDB looks pretty good.

Acting is really good there but unfortunately the story itself was too politically engaged so it's not a 'movie for all times'.