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Softer Focus

marblemarble Posts: 7,500
edited December 1969 in The Commons

Hi.

I doubt there is a simple answer to this but it has been a problem for me whenever I render using 3Delight. The one thing that makes 3D renders so obviously unrealistic is the razor-sharp edges.

I have tried DOF and placing the object slightly out of focus but that blurs all the details as well as the edges. So I have spent hour after hour of tracing around outlines using the blur tool in Photoshop. Luxrender is more realistic in this respect but it is slow and has other problems for me (including a plague of red spots on skin).

I have also tried trying to light the edges (isn't that called "rim" lighting?) but I am clearly not skilled enough to do so effectively.

Comments

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,617
    edited December 1969

    Can you show an example?
    Edges can be softened by changing the anti-aliasing, in Iray that's under 'Filtering': the pixel filter and pixel filter radius

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited May 2015

    Try using a different filter algorithm.

    In the Render Settings, pick Filter and then in the Pixel Filter box select one of the the other algorithms...Gaussian would be a good one to experiment with.

    First image is the default Sinc. Second Gaussian at an 8x8 filter width. Third Catmull-Rom at 8x8.

    catrom8x8.png
    800 x 800 - 764K
    gauss8x8.png
    800 x 800 - 591K
    sinc6x6.png
    800 x 800 - 782K
    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited May 2015

    prixat said:
    Can you show an example?
    Edges can be softened by changing the anti-aliasing, in Iray that's under 'Filtering': the pixel filter and pixel filter radius

    Sorry, I did try to make it clear that I'm talking about 3Delight renders.

    [EDIT] - Now I have read the other reply below, I'm a bit wiser about pixel filters - thank you both.

    As for examples - I'm not at my DAZ Studio computer right now but look at this promo :

    http://www.daz3d.com/belle-6-add-on-bundle

    The only one of those images that look "natural" to me is the one top-right. Perhaps because that is extreme close-up and the edges are softened by the DOF effect.

    Post edited by marble on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Try using a different filter algorithm.

    In the Render Settings, pick Filter and then in the Pixel Filter box select one of the the other algorithms...Gaussian would be a good one to experiment with.

    First image is the default Sinc. Second Gaussian at an 8x8 filter width. Third Catmull-Rom at 8x8.

    Now you've just pointed to something I had no idea was there and, to be honest, I still have no idea what it does. But I will tinker with it and see if it helps.

    Are there any documents describing how these render settings work?

    Thank you :)

  • TabianTabian Posts: 76
    edited December 1969

    I’v just had a play around with the Gaussian filter and changed pixel settings and got a nice fuzzy image. I then did a second render of the same image with no filter changes, then opened them both in Photoshop, one placed on top of the other, place a layer mask on the top layer (copy in focus) this method is so simple and fast to do, some of the effects are quite remarkable.
    Hope this helps...

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    Tabian13 said:
    I’v just had a play around with the Gaussian filter and changed pixel settings and got a nice fuzzy image. I then did a second render of the same image with no filter changes, then opened them both in Photoshop, one placed on top of the other, place a layer mask on the top layer (copy in focus) this method is so simple and fast to do, some of the effects are quite remarkable.
    Hope this helps...

    Excellent tip - thank you :)

  • prixatprixat Posts: 1,617
    edited December 1969

    The Gaussian filter behaves the same as the Gaussian filter in photoshop, you might as well do it entirely in photoshop. :-)

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    prixat said:
    The Gaussian filter behaves the same as the Gaussian filter in photoshop, you might as well do it entirely in photoshop. :-)

    Ahh - that's what concerned me. I have tried gaussian blur in Photoshop and, as I said, it blurs everything (of course). I'm looking to soften the edges (outlines) against the background.

    I've been scrolling through a lot of the promo pictures in the store and many of them do seem to have soft edges without a loss of detail, so it clearly can be done.

  • TabianTabian Posts: 76
    edited December 1969

    You can also achieve good results using the depth of field in your rendering camera settings...

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    Tabian13 said:
    You can also achieve good results using the depth of field in your rendering camera settings...

    I did mention that in my original post ...

    I have tried DOF and placing the object slightly out of focus but that blurs all the details as well as the edges.

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,
    If I'm really going for a photo-like look, I'll actually split the RGB layers out in Pixelmator, and pixel shift red over to the left one or two pixels, and blue one or two to the right, before combining them again. This simulates chromatic aberration and adds a bit of edge fuzzing as a side-effect.

    It's a poor-mans chromatic aberration, and there are probably whole Photoshop filters dedicated to doing it right, but it can be a useful effect. I think LuxRender actually has built in CA, also.

    -- Morgan

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    Cypherfox said:
    Greetings,
    If I'm really going for a photo-like look, I'll actually split the RGB layers out in Pixelmator, and pixel shift red over to the left one or two pixels, and blue one or two to the right, before combining them again. This simulates chromatic aberration and adds a bit of edge fuzzing as a side-effect.

    It's a poor-mans chromatic aberration, and there are probably whole Photoshop filters dedicated to doing it right, but it can be a useful effect. I think LuxRender actually has built in CA, also.

    -- Morgan

    I've a very old version of PS (inherited from my work-place before I retired) but I'll have a look for filters.

    By the way, I tried Pixelmator but the fonts and icons are so tiny I can't work with it. The forum has lots of people saying the same thing and they have promised to do something about it. Otherwise it looks a good value buy for Macs.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,382
    edited December 1969

    marble said:
    prixat said:
    The Gaussian filter behaves the same as the Gaussian filter in photoshop, you might as well do it entirely in photoshop. :-)

    Ahh - that's what concerned me. I have tried gaussian blur in Photoshop and, as I said, it blurs everything (of course). I'm looking to soften the edges (outlines) against the background.

    I've been scrolling through a lot of the promo pictures in the store and many of them do seem to have soft edges without a loss of detail, so it clearly can be done.
    I don't think it's a secret that many... and probably the majority... of promotional pictures in the store have been postworked. After all, why waste the time even trying to get everything dead on in the original render when it makes more sense to treat it like a RAW in digital photography? Make sure that your composition and lighting are right, that all the detail is there and that the things that you want to be in focus are in focus, then hit the rest after the fact for contrast, color balance, grain, etc.. And, if you're going for really specific effects, do your original renders in layers.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,500
    edited December 1969

    Cybersox13 said:

    I don't think it's a secret that many... and probably the majority... of promotional pictures in the store have been postworked. After all, why waste the time even trying to get everything dead on in the original render when it makes more sense to treat it like a RAW in digital photography? Make sure that your composition and lighting are right, that all the detail is there and that the things that you want to be in focus are in focus, then hit the rest after the fact for contrast, color balance, grain, etc.. And, if you're going for really specific effects, do your original renders in layers.

    I think you are right ... after all, that is the way I've been doing it so far. I'm sure that 3Delight has lots of secrets that I have yet to discover and I thought that asking might bring something to the surface.

    Thanks again :)

  • ParadigmParadigm Posts: 425
    edited December 1969

    Wow, there's a whole world of render settings I've never even looked at! Thanks guys, great thread.

    Carry on.

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