motion capture

StepAnimationsStepAnimations Posts: 70
edited December 1969 in Art Studio

I was searching for a low cost inertial mocap system and the only products I found where neuron mocap and priovr by yeitechnology. Neuron costs 1600 $ ( not so affordable) but shipping only to USA and Canada for now and priovr is the lowest in the market about 430$ ( maybe more) but shipping will start at summer and I need a mocap solution now. I have contacted other companies too but the prices are not affordable (about 10000$ the lowest). So I searched for a software based on Kinect. I have used ipisoft but I didn't like the results. After searching the web I found brekel pro and fastmocap. I think brekel will give me the same results with ipisoft. Fastmocap doesn't have a demo. It looks good, has anyone tried it? Also if anyone knows or uses any other mocap solution I would like to know too.

Comments

  • VenerisVeneris Posts: 108
    edited December 1969

    I have only tried IPISOFT and gives me good results.

    I'm looking for a solution for facial animation but can not find one, you do you recommend for facial mocap?

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    Hi drumpao

    Brekel's solution is pretty good, and is similar in idea to fastmocap.. it is also realtime (in programs such as Motionbuilder) It also takes advantage of the new kinect sensor, which is waaay better than the original kinect. Higher resolution. (which means better animation) It also does a certain amount of finger tracking and he has a solution for facial mocap..

    , What I can see from the fastmocap video online, it seems to have real problems with foot sliding and other issues, so you will have to do a lot of cleanup and manual keyframing to correct this. It also looks like it is only for the original kinect sensor, and I don't see finger or facial options

    Brekel is working on getting a solution out for multiple kinect sensors, which will greatly enhance mocap captures. My vote, for whatever it is worth, would be to go with the brekel (he is a mocap specialist too..)

  • StepAnimationsStepAnimations Posts: 70
    edited December 1969

    SINANIMACION, for facial mocap check faceshift, and brekel pro face. But I would suggest to go with iclone. Buy the genesis extention that includes the genesis 1 and 2 facekey and then import the genesis into iclone through 3dexchange and then load an audio file to automatically lip sync the character and edit the expressions too.

    BRYAN Steagall, Thanks for your answer. I actually think that inertial mocap is the best solution, but in one case prioVR which has a low price is not shipping yet and in the other neuron which is going to be used as a plugin for iclone too, will ship only to US and Canada and I am from Europe. Compare these two low cost solutions neuron seems to have fantastic results but even if I had someone in US to send me the suit if I would preorder it it would be late and I need a solution now. As for fastmocap and brekel. I am worried that you are right about fastmocap. The only thing that I liked is the 360 turn that I saw in a video. I am thinking to go with Brekel as you suggested.

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    @Drumpao

    I'm one of the backers for the Neuron suit, so I'll let everyone here know how well it works once I get it (unfortunately it keeps getting set back further and further). The big thing with inertial solutions such as the Neuron is how robust the inertial solver is going to be.. as far as we know, the one for neuron seems pretty good, although I won't know for sure until I get mine. (their pro solution, which costs 40k is pretty decent, we have to see how much of that actually translates to the neuron system). There is a reason why inertial suits like the ones from Synertial (formerly known as Animazoo) and XSENS cost so much.. their solvers are extremely well built and are used professionally.

    I looked at the YEI systems before (the makers of the PrioVr), and frankly I wasn't impressed.. seems more geared towards being a game controller

    If your movements are relatively simple, (basically, just standing around) then Brekel will be fine when considering cost.. but if you will be capturing complex interactions (two or more people) or more athletic movements, you will encounter issues, and you will need to do a lot of cleanup and manual keyframing, if you notice the brekel videos, he doesn't jump or anything else.. and you still see quite a bit of sliding). You need to think a lot on what you are going to be capturing and buy accordingly.

    IPI is somewhat of a step up from Brekel and falls somewhere in between the cost vs results matrix (Neuron is right here too) , but you have to keep some considerations in mind.. such as a clean, high contrast environment, a robust pc for processing, etc. I also don't like the subscription model, but that is just me.

    I am a distributor for the OptiTrack systems ( the 10k ones you mentioned) so I'm a little biased, but for precision and cleanness of data, you still can't beat optical markered systems. In a few years, I believe this is going to change, especially when multiple kinect v2 systems come into play and when they come out with something specific for DAZ or Poser (IClone having neuron support is exciting.. but then again, not there yet) Unfortunately there is not much out there for these programs that really work well

    @Sinanimacion

    Unfortunately, if you are using Iclone or DAZ or Poser, there's not much out there specifically targeted to these applications, Brekel and Faceshift and most other facial mocap systems are still targeted to Motionbuilder, Maya or other high end software packages. I still use mimic for poser and/or Daz Studio to get lipsync data and then do facial expressions manually

  • StepAnimationsStepAnimations Posts: 70
    edited December 1969

    Bryan Steagall,
    I totally agree with you. I read in neuron forum that neuron doesn't work well with daz and poser and it needs to edit the hierarchy of the bones. I'll wait for iclone to see how are they going to add this system in their software and if I like the results and neuron will ship to europe then maybe I'll buy their system. But this is not going to happen now. As for the priovr, when I found their system and saw the price I was very excited but as you said, when I looked at their videos I was not so impressed. I decided to use ready mocap animation files and a combination of iclone motions as I did with my previous project because I don't want to give money for something that it won't work.

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    drumpao

    Yep.. I was the one posting that regarding editing the bones, it is doable but a pain in the posterior. I've contacted them about that but no real replies. I also asked them to consider creating a plugin for Daz Studio, but they said they will not consider it at this time, to concentrate on their core functions. I'm not a programmer, so I wouldn't know where to start to build one otherwise I would. (anybody out there willing to try?)

    I'm also waiting to see what Iclone is going to do.. unfortunately, you won't be able to do both the facial animation and body at the same time.. which kind of bums me out because that is what I've been looking for to replace Motionbuilder for real-time performance.

  • VenerisVeneris Posts: 108
    edited April 2015

    I tried Brekel Pro Face 2, and I can not make the character's face shaking stops. I played with the parameters and did not get good results. I have also tried Faceshift but I do not know how to send the information Catch the character in DAZ Studio. I have seen few people have done it, but when you ask them, how they did it. They become mute. For example: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/53509/

    Post edited by Veneris on
  • StepAnimationsStepAnimations Posts: 70
    edited December 1969

    SINANIMACION, I haven't use faceshift and I can't help you. I use iclone for facial animation. You do it manually by your hand but gives you very good results.

  • edited December 1969

    Thank you guys for sharing your experience in this interesting thread (Motion Capture), I will share my experience too!
    I have been working with Daz for the last 7 years doing short animations and I tried Daz aniblocks, ready made mocap clips (BVH files) and recently ipi mocap studio. For facial expression and lipsync I used Daz build in lipsync tool and faceshift Mocap software.
    I believe getting professional look animation requires a lot of effort and clean up especially when your are doing your own mocap, and this is not an easy task even if you have the best tool and mocap system.

    As mentioned before few mocap systems have Daz plugins so you need to import your animation to DAZ using bvh files.
    The best solution (in my opinion) is to learn Autodesk Motion builder, I know it costs you some money but you will get good results. Using motion builder, you can import, cleanup and re-target mocap animation easily to Daz figures. I even clean Facial Mocap data from faceshift using Motion builder and then re-target the result to DAZ studio. As you know faceshift does not have a plugin for Daz studio so I had to do my own blend-shapes Mapping for G2Male & G2Female and it took me a lot of time to tweak the configuration file to get decent results.

    @Bryan Steagall , Neuron system has a motionbuilder plugin so all what you need when you get the Neuron suit is to have a
    daz skeleton template in fbx format and use it to characterize you daz figure in Motonbuilder, then you can easly re-target any animation from motionbuilder to daz figure using motionbuilder and you will get the correct bvh with the correct bone names.

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    @rorosab

    I use Motionbuilder quite extensively already.., so I do know the workflow.. and I'm waiting for my neuronmocap system (really can't wait! still several weeks away.. sigh).

    Why I would like a daz plugin, is more for realtime performance than anything else (OptiTrack had one for daz studio 2, but haven't updated it) Motionbuilder is great for this, but soon will no longer be available as a stand-alone product (will be included in the entertainment bundles), and it is really expensive, so I'm looking for something that could potentially replace it, as Daz studio has realtime lipsync through mimic. iClone will have neuronmocap support soon, but won't be able to do realtime facial lipsync at the same time.

    Now, one thing that did spark my interest that you mentioned, is how to get the facial animation back into Daz from motionbuilder.. I don't really use it much (daz), but I do use Poser.. would you be willing to share how you are exporting the facial data from mb into Daz? I have a fantastic facial mocap software called Performer, from dynamixyz, with an HMC.. but haven't been able to get that animation out in a way that is usable. here's a link to a test I did from MB http://www.kkstudio.us/cc/dynamixtest.mov

    I've been importing the fbx motion from motionbuilder into Poser pro 2014 dev edition, which works much better than bvh files.. but haven't had any luck importing this into daz studio.

  • edited December 1969

    Here are the steps to get faceshift facial data into Daz studio:
    1- Export Daz Genesis 2 Male to fbx (I use fbx 2010 asci format) with all the facial morphs (PHMBrowDownL,CTRLBrowUp,PHMEyesSquintL,PHMMouthOpen, etc)
    2- Now load the resulted FBX in Faceshift as a target Model and name the model it as G2Male
    3- You need now to edit the target Model Mapping, there are 51 blenshapes in faceshift that need to be mapped to daz figure Morph
    for example:
    BrowsD_L = Genesis2Male.PHMBrowDownL
    BrowsD_R = Genesis2Male.PHMBrowDownR
    (If you want I can send you my mapping file)

    4-Capture the facial expressions and lipsync in faceshift
    5- Select the newly Genesis 2 Male as the target Model (G2Male)
    6- Export the clip as fbx and select Genesis 2 Male (G2Male) as the target Model (you can export audio as well)
    7- Now open this fbx in Motionbuilder (you can import the audio file as well)
    8- Now you have the Genesis 2 Male with all the blendshapes data, click on the model and open Fcurves and you will see each
    morph shape, you can clean and apply filters etc...
    9- When finished all what you have to do is to save the exported fbx (keep it fbx-2010)
    10- Open daz studio and just import FBX , import the audio as well to check facial expressions and the lipsync
    (Please take care of the Frames rate in each step) I use 30 FPS in DAZ, Faceshift and motionbuilder

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    thank you rorosab, I'll give that a whirl to see if I can get it to work.. really helpful!

  • edited December 1969

    thank you rorosab, I'll give that a whirl to see if I can get it to work.. really helpful!

    I am ready to help if you need anything!
    Just post your question in the forum so we can all share our experience!

  • VenerisVeneris Posts: 108
    edited December 1969

    rorosab said:
    Here are the steps to get faceshift facial data into Daz studio:
    1- Export Daz Genesis 2 Male to fbx (I use fbx 2010 asci format) with all the facial morphs (PHMBrowDownL,CTRLBrowUp,PHMEyesSquintL,PHMMouthOpen, etc)
    2- Now load the resulted FBX in Faceshift as a target Model and name the model it as G2Male
    3- You need now to edit the target Model Mapping, there are 51 blenshapes in faceshift that need to be mapped to daz figure Morph
    for example:
    BrowsD_L = Genesis2Male.PHMBrowDownL
    BrowsD_R = Genesis2Male.PHMBrowDownR
    (If you want I can send you my mapping file)

    4-Capture the facial expressions and lipsync in faceshift
    5- Select the newly Genesis 2 Male as the target Model (G2Male)
    6- Export the clip as fbx and select Genesis 2 Male (G2Male) as the target Model (you can export audio as well)
    7- Now open this fbx in Motionbuilder (you can import the audio file as well)
    8- Now you have the Genesis 2 Male with all the blendshapes data, click on the model and open Fcurves and you will see each
    morph shape, you can clean and apply filters etc...
    9- When finished all what you have to do is to save the exported fbx (keep it fbx-2010)
    10- Open daz studio and just import FBX , import the audio as well to check facial expressions and the lipsync
    (Please take care of the Frames rate in each step) I use 30 FPS in DAZ, Faceshift and motionbuilder

    Ok, thank you. I will try it. Can you send me your mapping file? [email protected]
    In step 10, the FBX has only the facial animation data or facial animation data with character?

  • edited December 1969


    Ok, thank you. I will try it. Can you send me your mapping file?
    In step 10, the FBX has only the facial animation data or facial animation data with character?

    -The FBX file will have both the character and the facial data!
    -I will post the mapping file in this thread later this day!

  • Bryan SteagallBryan Steagall Posts: 121
    edited December 1969

    HI Rorosab

    I tried the export and it works well! I think my problem was with the service release I had in Poser.. it was breaking the mesh in Poser on import due to the fbx import. I updated it to SR5.2 and it works well now. It also works in Daz Studio, imported on the existing character.

    Thanks for your help! Here's a sample animation.. www.kkstudio.us/cc/dynamixyzposer.m4v

    My next test will be to pair the mocap animation with the face, I'll post here when I get it done.

  • edited December 1969

    Below is my faceshift mapping file for Genesis 2 Male:

    Mapping File
    Mapping File Mirror

  • 0oseven0oseven Posts: 568
    edited December 1969

    DRUMPAO
    I don't think this has been mentioned before.

    Try Nuicapture

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhb6Uqxg9Tg

  • edited December 1969

    rorosab said:
    Here are the steps to get faceshift facial data into Daz studio:
    1- Export Daz Genesis 2 Male to fbx (I use fbx 2010 asci format) with all the facial morphs
    r

    Hello! How export all morph??

    Please

  • the same problem.

    when i'm trying to export the characted from DAZ I can't export morphs. even all the checkboxes is checked.

     

  • VenerisVeneris Posts: 108

     

    SINANIMACION said:


    Ok, thank you. I will try it. Can you send me your mapping file?
    In step 10, the FBX has only the facial animation data or facial animation data with character?

     

    -The FBX file will have both the character and the facial data!
    -I will post the mapping file in this thread later this day!

    There is only way to get the animation file to apply it to the original character loaded DAZ Studio?

    Or file FBX animation convert to BVH?

  • PA_ThePhilosopherPA_ThePhilosopher Posts: 871
    edited July 2016

    Hey guys,

    Any updates on Neuron or PrioVR for Daz3d? Has anyone tested the suits with Daz characters yet?

    Also, in regards to Nueron, I've been experimenting with sample BVH files from Neuron, but have been getting poor results even with older Genesis 2 and Genesis (the shoulders are locked in T-Pose). PriorVr seems to give slightly better results (based on their sample files), but they seem a little "jittery" to me.

    -P
     

    Post edited by PA_ThePhilosopher on
  • Found this, converts FS file to PZ2 files, haven't tried it yet, but looks promising:

    https://sharecg.com/v/88605/view/11/Poser/faceshift-to-PZ2-Converter

Sign In or Register to comment.