8.1 questions: once and for all

marblemarble Posts: 6,533

I avoid buying Genesis 8.1 characters because I don't really understand how they will fit in with my G8 characters. I never use any characters as sold. I always use them to produce my own look by mixing shapes and textures between my catalogue of purchased G8 characters. I just dial-in percentages of character morphs, including many of the additional morphs like Musculature or those from Zev0 (Ageing, Growing Up. etc.). 

Additionally, when required, I add third-party gegrafts which come with their own geometry shells for texture blending, etc.

So my question is - considering my workflow - am I right in avoiding 8.1 or can I mix them in with G8 characters without restriction?

Comments

  • I've had basically no problem moving to Genesis 81 from Genesis 8. All my Zev0 dials are there, for instance. Same goes for third party dials from other locations.

    It's not seamless. Fixing expressions, geoshells not quite working, other scripts not working due to nomenclature (Body/Head versus Torso).

    There are workarounds for basically anything that I need done.

    Is it worth the time? I like G81 better for the facial rig. Newer skins are a plus, but I have so many that I actively avoid buying new figures, myself.

    It really isn't a problem to move to Genesis 8.1, but it also isn't going to change the universe and make everything better.

    Me... I mostly use Genesis 3 and Genesis 8.1 now, with some Genesis 2 as well. Pure Genesis 8, I do not bother unless I'm using it as a step (like geoshells to transfer to Genesis 8.1).

  • benniewoodellbenniewoodell Posts: 1,389

    I haven't had a single issue with G8.1 in terms of mixing characters and using G8 clothing and hair. The thing I've found is if you wanted to mix a G8 and a G8.1 character, load an 8.1 character first and then dial in the G8 morph, you can't start with a G8 and dial in 8.1 (that I know of at least). Otherwise, all the clothes and hair work fine. If it comes up with the autofit box asking what generation, just click unsupported and it works. As for expressions, you have to take out the certain files that are listed in the expressions thread about 8.1, both in the normal content directory and the cloud directory if you've ever used Daz Central. 

    I don't know anything about geografts quite honestly, but as for mixing everything else, you shouldn't have a problem. 

  • The Blurst of TimesThe Blurst of Times Posts: 2,403
    edited January 26

    Third party bits... you can always load them onto Genesis 8 (letting the scripts do their thing), then fit to Genesis 8.1. Many times, I'm just applying directly to Genesis 8.1 and copying textures.

    You may have to work around the PBR skins, but... a lot is just copy/paste. Third party bits often deal with the Torso, and you use the Body from G81 to paste into those parts (using the Default UV).

    Like, Meipe's various bits. Apply directly to the G81 figure, copy/paste textures, adjust UV to the default for the prop (since it'll try to apply the surface's original UV from where you copied it from). Haven't had any major issues copy/pasting g81 Body into where it's expecting g8 Torso.

    If you want scripts to run, then you'll need to deal with the figure they were made for, however. Of course, shells for third party anatomy rarely interact with the figures very far beyond the groin or chest regions, and mostly deal with the anatomy themselves, so it's basically not an issue if you know your business with the shells.

    Geoshells... those also work easier if you start from a Genesis 8 figure, then reparent/fit the shell over to Genesis 81.

    Post edited by The Blurst of Times on
  • marblemarble Posts: 6,533
    edited January 26

    The Blurst of Times said:

    I've had basically no problem moving to Genesis 81 from Genesis 8. All my Zev0 dials are there, for instance. Same goes for third party dials from other locations.

    It's not seamless. Fixing expressions, geoshells not quite working, other scripts not working due to nomenclature (Body/Head versus Torso).

    There are workarounds for basically anything that I need done.

    Is it worth the time? I like G81 better for the facial rig. Newer skins are a plus, but I have so many that I actively avoid buying new figures, myself.

    It really isn't a problem to move to Genesis 8.1, but it also isn't going to change the universe and make everything better.

    Me... I mostly use Genesis 3 and Genesis 8.1 now, with some Genesis 2 as well. Pure Genesis 8, I do not bother unless I'm using it as a step (like geoshells to transfer to Genesis 8.1).

    I'm not big on facial expressions and tend to use them sparingly (especially as pre-8.1 expressions are pretty awful and can spoil the whole look). I can't say anything about PBR skins because I have not used any and, as I say, I have avoided buying any but the product promos don't inspire me to start buying either. Problems with geoshells would be a big issue for me ... I think I may just carry on avoiding. 

    Post edited by marble on
  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 11,110

    The main reason I keep using 8.1 is I have 3 characters that have some amazing skin that only works on 8.1. Morphs, clothing, hair from G8 all work fine for me on 8.1. The only real issue i have is with the 3rd party gens and texture matching at times.

  • GordigGordig Posts: 6,296

    My last tutorial includes a method for using 8.1 textures on 8, if that's something you're interested in.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 4,503
    edited January 26

    You don't have to use the new skin with G8.1, as G8.1 also has the UV for G8/G3, so you can use your old skins as they are
    G8 base expressions do not work by default, which also renders any expression dials that use the G8 expressions as a base non-functional, but there's an easy fix to get them working
    Clothing and hair that's made for G8 should not ask for autofitting (If using DS 4.15 or newer)
    Geografts and shells, if bought products, may need updating. The reason is the difference in the base figures name "Genesis 8" vs "Genesis 8_1", not because they are somehow different.
    Many G8.1 characters have SubD dialed to 4 or even 5, but it's easy to dial it down to normal levels, so it isn't taxing the system any more than G8

    Basically using G8.1 is no different than using G8, it has the option of the new skin and the (optional) fancy rig for expressions, but that's about it.

    Post edited by PerttiA on
  • AndrewJJPAndrewJJP Posts: 501
    edited January 26

    PerttiA said:

    You don't have to use the new skin with G8.1, as G8.1 also has the UV for G8/G3, so you can use your old skins as they are
    G8 base expressions do not work by default, which also renders any expression dials that use the G8 expressions as a base non-functional, but there's an easy fix to get them working
    Clothing and hair that's made for G8 should not ask for autofitting (If using DS 4.15 or newer)
    Geografts and shells, if bought products, may need updating. The reason is the difference in the base figures name "Genesis 8" vs "Genesis 8_1", not because they are somehow different.
    Many G8.1 characters have SubD dialed to 4 or even 5, but it's easy to dial it down to normal levels, so it isn't taxing the system any more than G8

    Basically using G8.1 is no different than using G8, it has the option of the new skin and the (optional) fancy rig for expressions, but that's about it.

    Do you ever get blue marks around some seams when using 8.0 skins on an 8.1? Or different levels of detail? I've noticed it around the arms and ears particularly, and also the tops of the legs (although that's not generally visible in my pictures). I think that's the cause anyway, and that would make some sense and I've put it down to the UV transfer. Fixing it in post work is possible but tedious

    Or is it just me?

    But all in all I love the G8.1 and I wouldn't go back. Once the expressions are "fixed" there really isn't much to lose.

    FWIW, I don't agree with the idea that only facial movements possible in the real world should be available, which I believe was the reason that so many dials I use frequently were removed. I'd be lost without some of the G8.0 eyelid posing options especially, but it's easy to get them back of course.

    Post edited by AndrewJJP on
  • HylasHylas Posts: 3,640
    edited January 26

    Why don´t you just load a G8.1 base figure and see if it can do everything you want it to do?


    Anyway, I've had no problems moving from 8.0 to 8.1.

    8.0 facial expressions won't work on 8.1 but there's an easy solve that has been extesively documented here on the forums.

    Some scripts and geoshell products won't work anymore but so far I've always found an easy work-around.
    For example the Anagenessis 2 script doesn't work on 8.1.
    So I load the skin I want to convert on a 8.0, run the Anagenessis 2 scrip, and save as material preset.
    Then I apply that material preset on 8.1.
    This kind of thing doesn't come up too often for me, and when it does the solution is usually quite obvious.
    And I use geoshells regularly.

    Good luck!

    Post edited by Hylas on
  • benniewoodellbenniewoodell Posts: 1,389

    Gordig said:

    My last tutorial includes a method for using 8.1 textures on 8, if that's something you're interested in.

    Nice! I saved this to watch later tonight. 

  • marblemarble Posts: 6,533

    Hylas said:

    Why don´t you just load a G8.1 base figure and see if it can do everything you want it to do?

     

     

    Because it's easier to ask someone who's done that already.  

  • MoogooMoogoo Posts: 110

    If you are not that interested in new skin textures or expressions there is no point in going 8.1 it will just be a headache for you IMHO.

    Personally, skin and expressions are so much better I am really happy I went 8.1 but it depends on what sort of renders you do. Also, it will add hassle especially around geos and the like.

  • marblemarble Posts: 6,533

    Moogoo said:

    If you are not that interested in new skin textures or expressions there is no point in going 8.1 it will just be a headache for you IMHO.

    Personally, skin and expressions are so much better I am really happy I went 8.1 but it depends on what sort of renders you do. Also, it will add hassle especially around geos and the like.

     

    Yes - thank you. Exactly the kind of comment I was looking for (but hoping it might be easier to use both). I do very few close-ups or portraits so the skin texrures I have for G8F are usually good enough with a little tweaking. As I said, expressions are a low priority - I can dial-in the basics with G8 but, again, I'm not doing facial close-ups. Most of my renders have three or four people in an interior scene (room and furniture in view). 

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 4,503

    AndrewJJP said:

    PerttiA said:

    You don't have to use the new skin with G8.1, as G8.1 also has the UV for G8/G3, so you can use your old skins as they are
    G8 base expressions do not work by default, which also renders any expression dials that use the G8 expressions as a base non-functional, but there's an easy fix to get them working
    Clothing and hair that's made for G8 should not ask for autofitting (If using DS 4.15 or newer)
    Geografts and shells, if bought products, may need updating. The reason is the difference in the base figures name "Genesis 8" vs "Genesis 8_1", not because they are somehow different.
    Many G8.1 characters have SubD dialed to 4 or even 5, but it's easy to dial it down to normal levels, so it isn't taxing the system any more than G8

    Basically using G8.1 is no different than using G8, it has the option of the new skin and the (optional) fancy rig for expressions, but that's about it.

    Do you ever get blue marks around some seams when using 8.0 skins on an 8.1? Or different levels of detail? I've noticed it around the arms and ears particularly, and also the tops of the legs (although that's not generally visible in my pictures). I think that's the cause anyway, and that would make some sense and I've put it down to the UV transfer. Fixing it in post work is possible but tedious

    Or is it just me?

    But all in all I love the G8.1 and I wouldn't go back. Once the expressions are "fixed" there really isn't much to lose.

    FWIW, I don't agree with the idea that only facial movements possible in the real world should be available, which I believe was the reason that so many dials I use frequently were removed. I'd be lost without some of the G8.0 eyelid posing options especially, but it's easy to get them back of course.

    I haven't seen any blue marks 

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