Why do sellers keep skipping Genesis compatibility?
DrowElfMorwen
Posts: 539
I keep looking at various products in the DAZ store only to often see them only compatible with (as an example) "Genesis 2 female, Victoria 4, Aiko 4"
This is really frustrating--or am I missing something? Can Genesis 2 items convert nicely to Genesis? I tried with one simple outfit and it didn't work at all. But what's with all the sellers "skipping" compatibility for Genesis? Is there some deal between the sellers and DAZ not do it so they get to sell Genesis 2 more, or what? >.>
For that matter, I cannot seem to find Genesis 2 (male or female!) in the store at all. I only keep finding products for them, or their morph bundles. So how do I get Gensis 2 Female/Male if I want them??
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Not surprising considering genesis 2 is the main, supported DAZ figure. From what i have read, many vendors seem to feel developing for genesis 2 is easier. I still use genesis 1 quite a bit and have very little issues using genesis 2 content with genesis 1.
Genesis 2 comes free with DS you also need to install the relevant Starter essentials pack.
Morwen, Genesis is both male and female, this was changed with the release of Genesis 2, splitting it off in both male and female as separate characters.
Genesis itself is the most versatile figure DAZ has ever released, but due to this versatility many vendor seem to shy away from making products for them and if they do it's either for genesis male or female, not both.
Now consider genesis can easily be morphed into V5, M5, S5, D5, DAZ troll, etc... see the tricky part here of making clothing for it?
To fit Genesis 2 items to Genesis 1, you need these: http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-male-clone-for-genesis http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-female-clone-for-genesis
To use M6 & V6 skins on Genesis 1: http://www.daz3d.com/victoria-6-and-michael-6-uvs-for-genesis
http://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-male-and-female-base-uvs-for-genesis
Also, the curremt version of Generation X can convert both ways between Genesis and Genesis 2.
The thing to really consider is genesis 2 is by far the most popular version among customers. This is primarily the main reason why most of the items are for Genesis 2 and the switchover to this version from Genesis 1 was so quick. It is easier to develop for, does emotions much better, bending is better without lots of behind-the-scene fixes, etc. Vendors will make items of products that are in demand and ultimately the customers prefer Genesis 2 over Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 has greater adoption among customers and other storefronts over Genesis 1 as well.
Thank you for the links! I forgot totally about these. But I worry about transferring entire characters from Genesis to Genesis 2. >.>
Also, I have Genesis 2 Male Base in my library, but for some reason the female base isn't there.... I'm not sure where to download the Starter Essentials.
scatha... uhm, I know the difference between Genesis (which I've been using for years) and Gensis 2 (it's pretty obvious they split it into male and female versions). I still don't see why it's so supposedly tricky, not for the most basic of clothing and hair.
Male-M3dia, you have good points, I just hate to see Genesis so avoided. It seems unfair. Every time DAZ releases a new figure you have to buy a ton of stuff (like morph packs) just to use it properly.
You should be able to get the female base through DIM. If you don't use DIM, here's the way to get it manually:
1) Click on the "My Account" link near the top-right corner of the browser window.
2) On the page that loads, click on "Product Library" near the top.
3) On the page that loads, enter "Genesis 2 Starter Essentials" (without the quotes) into the search box and click on "Filter"
4) Click on the "Genesis 2 Starter Essentials" link just below the search box.
You should see a screen with a picture of the Daz Studio "box" and a product description. Scroll down until you see the list in the screenshot that I've attached.
If you want to download the base female through DIM, click on the green "Download and Install" button on the line for Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials. If you want to install the figure manually, click on the blue "Download" button on the same line. (If you're running Poser, do the same with Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials PoserCF.)
If you don't see everything on this list, file a ticket with Product Support and let them know you only received part of Daz Studio.
i know how to convert clothing from genesis 2 to genesis 1 but how do i save the converted clothing?
V4 and M4 clothes convert to Genesis pretty well most of the time (with the exception of shoes which NEVER work right). I bought the G2F clone by sickleyield to fit genesis 2 clothes on genesis and it has worked perfectly pretty much every time.
I'm still on Genesis exclusively...not ready to make the switch yet after putting so much money into Genesis morphs and products. I also have so many V4/m4 textures that I use frequently and don't feel like buying the converter to be able to use them on Genesis 2. Genesis works for me still
Imagine that you are going to design an outfit to be worn on a very busty woman or a very muscular man but you can only work on the outfit when it is on a gender neutral non muscular base. Not to bad for very simple clothes but more complex clothing is difficult.
File--save as-- scene assets -- figure/prop asset, change all the names in the dialog that pops up so you don't overwrite the original.
I'm finding I keep stepping over to genesis 2, poking around... and then walking back to Genesis 1.
Amusingly, I use Genesis 2 most for stuff like monsters, since I bought detailed Creature Collection stuff.
I'm now somewhat kicking myself for some of the G2 stuff I've gotten, but oh well. Live and learn.
(I got aging morphs for G2F & M... and now thinking of going back and getting the age morphs for Genesis)
Part of the issue is that most of the stuff I'm rendering, the images just aren't big/zoomed in enough for fine details to matter quite as much.
Imagine that you are going to design an outfit to be worn on a very busty woman or a very muscular man but you can only work on the outfit when it is on a gender neutral non muscular base. Not to bad for very simple clothes but more complex clothing is difficult.
Yes! This is why early clothing for G1 has less surface detail compared to V4 clothes from the same period (admittedly, smoothing and collision in DS has advanced a lot since then too). Artists who make detailed clothes can just do a lot more with G2.
Imagine that you are going to design an outfit to be worn on a very busty woman or a very muscular man but you can only work on the outfit when it is on a gender neutral non muscular base. Not to bad for very simple clothes but more complex clothing is difficult.
So it was completely impossible to morph Genesis into Basic Male or Female and create on that?
So it was completely impossible to morph Genesis into Basic Male or Female and create on that?
Creating against a morph isn't impossible. Unless you want it to look good with basically any other morph afterwards. Most of us do.
So it was completely impossible to morph Genesis into Basic Male or Female and create on that?
Creating against a morph isn't impossible. Unless you want it to look good with basically any other morph afterwards. Most of us do.
Creating against the morph would then revert it back to the base genesis shape when rigged, destroying any details you had on the outfit. This is because the clothing will trying to automatically autoconvert the outfit to shape of the base genesis shape. Sometimes parts of the clothing mesh would get warped or destroyed as well, which would require cleanup. Any other shapes would inherit the destroyed version of the outfit, not the one created against that shape. Including any new figures not release at the time the outfit was created. This is pretty much why a lot of genesis 1 clothing was either unisex or lacked detailed elements too them.
The gender split allowed female clothing to be made against a female shape so areas around the breasts and hips would not deform as much and you could spend the time for fits for specific characters, not cleaning up the autoconverted item.
So it was completely impossible to morph Genesis into Basic Male or Female and create on that?
Creating against a morph isn't impossible. Unless you want it to look good with basically any other morph afterwards. Most of us do.
Gotcha, any vendor who creates against a morph doesn't want their product to look good with other morphs.
While clothing looks good (although some items seems to lack morphs, creases etc) I was hoping the split would give us a lot more variety than rehashes of what was available for Genesis and V4.
Whaaa? No, it would have been wonderful if in fact they had looked good on all the other morphs but the reality was that all to often they were not looking good with even the morph they were going to be used on. There were all sorts of issues. The simplest to imagine is the texture stretching. Imagine if you have a bra that you have designed for a flat chested person and then you put it on a woman with average or larger boobs. How far will the fabric need to stretch to accommodate for those boobs that could not be factored into the design? With 3d that means that some parts of the texture get pulled badly and don't look right.
Whaaa? No, it would have been wonderful if in fact they had looked good on all the other morphs but the reality was that all to often they were not looking good with even the morph they were going to be used on. There were all sorts of issues. The simplest to imagine is the texture stretching. Imagine if you have a bra that you have designed for a flat chested person and then you put it on a woman with average or larger boobs. How far will the fabric need to stretch to accommodate for those boobs that could not be factored into the design? With 3d that means that some parts of the texture get pulled badly and don't look right.
<--This right here, and what MM3 said. This is why I'm a huge fan of Genesis 2 now when I originally groused about the split (I liked having androgynous outfits, but I can get them easily now with Cross-Figure anyway).</p>
Creating against a morph isn't impossible. Unless you want it to look good with basically any other morph afterwards. Most of us do.
Creating against the morph would then revert it back to the base genesis shape when rigged, destroying any details you had on the outfit. This is because the clothing will trying to automatically autoconvert the outfit to shape of the base genesis shape. Sometimes parts of the clothing mesh would get warped or destroyed as well, which would require cleanup. Any other shapes would inherit the destroyed version of the outfit, not the one created against that shape. Including any new figures not release at the time the outfit was created. This is pretty much why a lot of genesis 1 clothing was either unisex or lacked detailed elements too them.
The gender split allowed female clothing to be made against a female shape so areas around the breasts and hips would not deform as much and you could spend the time for fits for specific characters, not cleaning up the autoconverted item.
That must have been a headache and a half trying to get all that to work.
Creating against a morph isn't impossible. Unless you want it to look good with basically any other morph afterwards. Most of us do.
Creating against the morph would then revert it back to the base genesis shape when rigged, destroying any details you had on the outfit. This is because the clothing will trying to automatically autoconvert the outfit to shape of the base genesis shape. Sometimes parts of the clothing mesh would get warped or destroyed as well, which would require cleanup. Any other shapes would inherit the destroyed version of the outfit, not the one created against that shape. Including any new figures not release at the time the outfit was created. This is pretty much why a lot of genesis 1 clothing was either unisex or lacked detailed elements too them.
The gender split allowed female clothing to be made against a female shape so areas around the breasts and hips would not deform as much and you could spend the time for fits for specific characters, not cleaning up the autoconverted item.
That must have been a headache and a half trying to get all that to work.
From the vendors that made clothes, yes. A lot of customers say that Genesis was versatile, however it was a major pain for the vendors to do the work to make it seem that way to customers. Genesis wasn't as versatile as some think it was. Genesis 2 is much easier to develop from, hence the adoption from customers, vendors and storefronts.
Creating against the morph would then revert it back to the base genesis shape when rigged, destroying any details you had on the outfit. This is because the clothing will trying to automatically autoconvert the outfit to shape of the base genesis shape. Sometimes parts of the clothing mesh would get warped or destroyed as well, which would require cleanup. Any other shapes would inherit the destroyed version of the outfit, not the one created against that shape. Including any new figures not release at the time the outfit was created. This is pretty much why a lot of genesis 1 clothing was either unisex or lacked detailed elements too them.
The gender split allowed female clothing to be made against a female shape so areas around the breasts and hips would not deform as much and you could spend the time for fits for specific characters, not cleaning up the autoconverted item.
That must have been a headache and a half trying to get all that to work.
From the vendors that made clothes, yes. A lot of customers say that Genesis was versatile, however it was a major pain for the vendors to do the work to make it seem that way to customers. Genesis wasn't as versatile as some think it was. Genesis 2 is much easier to develop from, hence the adoption from customers, vendors and storefronts.
As user with a lot of freebies to convert from generations 4 and 3 and others figures, I think G2F is better and less work to conversions between females, several clothes need go to Hexagon for repair due to breast with V4-to-G1 conversion, in V4-to-G2F it doesn't needed. G1 is yet needed for conversion from generation 3, so I'm waiting for (official) generation 3 clones for Genesis 2.
For new clothes, because now there are more complex clothes for genesis 2, this year I stop to buy as first option V4-M4 clothes or genesis clothes. These needs to be special to buy them, and sometimes there are another very good and special G2 cloth at the same time, so G2 wins and I buy it instead of the special G1/gen4 cloth.
I hate the split, but I understand reason for this, and I have or can buy tools to "reduce" the negative effects of this.
Another G1 question, since there are a few digital clothiers about: Is it impossible, impractical or just not something most clothing creators thought about, to design correction morphs around the breasts, at least for the common breast morphs, to show cloth not looking glued to or painted on the skin? Both between the breasts and beneath, very few clothing items (like anything NOT a bra) wrap around breasts, the way Genesis clothing tends to.
I understand how this would be one of the things to push you towards G2, either way. Seems like for non-cleavage showing clothes, however, there could have been a morph added to G1 to simulate clothed breasts, with somewhat realistic draping. Could have even been a second morph around the abs to customize how tightly that section fits.
http://www.daz3d.com/clothing-cleavage-modifier
Because Genesis' default shape is flat-chested, every breast shape that doesn't have a fully custom morph for the female morphs being used is going to look that way. Given the large number of female characters, they weren't all going to get supported in every clothing item; doing custom FBMs and PBMs (and there are a LOT of individual breast morphs for G1) is very laborious and time-consuming. An artist isn't going to choose to spend as much time on chest fixers as on the entire outfit.
That's actually one of the reasons I did this. http://www.daz3d.com/sickle-rigging-and-morphing-system
It doesn't cover every existing G1 female morph and breast shape, but it does get a lot of them. I got burnt out enough on the number of FBM/PBM combos I used to do that I do far less clothing now than I did for G1.
And I, for one, applaud you for doing so...but, with G2F, I'm not using it as much as I thought I'd be...I still do some Genesis stuff, but more Genesis 2.
And I, for one, applaud you for doing so...but, with G2F, I'm not using it as much as I thought I'd be...I still do some Genesis stuff, but more Genesis 2.
It pretty much only works with G1. I covered that functionality for G2F with the clothing smoothers and the dress template.
What I meant was I'm not using it because I'm not needing to use it...still use for G1 stuff, but not doing all that much.
Someone, in another thread mentioned something abou using G1 for creatures and 'non-human' figures and that's pretty much what I'm doing, to...
Still having troubles working out the best way to accommodate multiple morphs, but it's a lot easier than my original approach. I can't even imagine how much harder it must be for Genesis with hundreds of individual morphs.
Tshirts, sack dresses and the like....