DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.9!

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  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited December 1969

    mtl1 said:
    mtl1 said:
    Just to let people know: 4GB variants of the 750Ti and 960 are starting to come out, so there may be a "mid-tier" alternative to the budget 740 and the more expensive cards out soon.
    All this hype about a meager 4GB on video cards. I must have some serious misgivings of how many generation 6 HD figures you can cram into 4GB, after my Windows 32bit experience.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/588194/
    6 plane primitives as the scene and a sphere (no texture maps), 5 menu spotlights, a point-light in a primitive sphere, a single G2F figure (not HD), a shirt, and skirt.
    Add hair, and instant blue-screen of death.

    how many generation 6 HD figures, cloths and hair, can you cram into 4GB? 2 with no scene at all? And what about the scene?

    Some were having difficulties with some scenes eating up all the ram (no figures, just the scene product).

    This is why I believe the correct amount of ram is as much as can be afforded

    Well, it is an interesting discussion to be sure. At what point is GPU Price/VRAM versus price not tenable? I'd love more HSA-like architecture to be more prolific, but I don't see wide market penetration as long as nVidia has its hold on the market.
    NEVER, on my CAD workstation, keep that VRAM bandwidth out of my system ram. :coolmad:

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 5,155
    edited March 2015

    Khory said:
    Question about f/stop in in Iray. Does it only effect light levels or does it also effect depth of field?

    There are two places to adjust the f/stop. In Tone Mapping (Render settings) if effects the light levels. You can also adjust the f/stop for any camera if you turn on the Depth of Field for that camera. As the setting implies, you can then control the depth of field.
    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,922
    edited March 2015

    ACross said:
    Khory said:
    Question about f/stop in in Iray. Does it only effect light levels or does it also effect depth of field?

    There are two places to adjust the f/stop. In Tone Mapping (Render settings) if effects the light levels. You can also adjust the f/stop for any camera if you turn on the Depth of Field for that camera. As the setting implies, you can then control the depth of field.

    I've been having this issue myself, trying to figure out how to balance the camera with the tone mapping settings. Your explanation suggests I should be able to set the camera itself to say f/11 and the tone mapping to the same and I should come out with the equivalent of a real camera's f/11 (decent dof for landscape, but less light in)?

    Or maybe a portrait using 100mm f/2.8-5.6?

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    mtl1 said:
    Just to let people know: 4GB variants of the 750Ti and 960 are starting to come out, so there may be a "mid-tier" alternative to the budget 740 and the more expensive cards out soon.
    All this hype about a meager 4GB on video cards. I must have some serious misgivings of how many generation 6 HD figures you can cram into 4GB, after my Windows 32bit experience.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/588194/
    6 plane primitives as the scene and a sphere (no texture maps), 5 menu spotlights, a point-light in a primitive sphere, a single G2F figure (not HD), a shirt, and skirt.
    Add hair, and instant blue-screen of death.

    how many generation 6 HD figures, cloths and hair, can you cram into 4GB? 2 with no scene at all? And what about the scene?

    Some were having difficulties with some scenes eating up all the ram (no figures, just the scene product).

    This is why I believe the correct amount of ram is as much as can be afforded

    lol, they don't make 128GB graphics cards, yesterday, lol.
    Actually my motherboard can't handle more then 32GB (already maxed out)

    Only have 32 myself my new motherboard supports 64 but 16 gig memory sticks ain't exactly affordable yet
    That's the other bit of it. the 12GB cards, even the 'Out of stock' 6GB card, are out of my price range.

    I'd settle for less CUDA cores, if it had more ram. It may be lower on the Watt budget that way as well.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • JimJim Posts: 728
    edited December 1969


    jimzombie said:

    Don't forget about Texture Atlas. In many scenes textures are the big killer, so you can save yourself a lot of VRAM with this plugin. 4GB of RAM on a graphics card is becoming the standard, so it is only meager when you compare it to the much cheaper DDR 3 RAM we pile into our systems.
    I see that and consumer cards still lack higher quantities. Also, HD figures have more polygons, don't they? is it worth it, for me, to get a bigger power supply (more then 800watt), and the card, just for Iray?
    Yes the PSU is already at max capacity (10 HDDs, etc).

    In terms of rendering speeds consumer cards have been ahead of pro cards in both CUDA and OCL. Check out the benchmarks from any reputable tech site. As to the question of worth (rhetorical question?), well that's pretty subjective. I still mostly use CPU based engines.

  • JimJim Posts: 728
    edited December 1969

    jimzombie said:
    This is great! I'm having a blast with Iray. Just published an article about it at DigiSprawl. There's a little on getting started and the obligatory Lux vs Iray. Nicely done.

    Reading it, I noticed a couple of things.

    Without a beefy NVIDIA Card, you can have your Aux Viewport use the Iray Drawstyle instead of your main viewport, this should allow you run into less issues :) but still give you an accurate preview.

    Instructions to install the Beta are on the Beta Store page. (To include pretty pictures. LOL)

    It is therefore easier to light a scene for biased rendering than for one that will be rendered with a biased engine, which often require the placement of more lights and wizardry to produce plausible results.

    Appears to have a typo. I believe the intention is to have the first "biased" actually be unbiased.

    Thanks Spooky :) I made the alterations to the article. Thanks for the feedback.

  • JimJim Posts: 728
    edited December 1969

    tried last night on a very simple scene and got the "hourglass of death" and no progress for 20 min before I quit out.,
    my video drivers need to be updated so I'll try again after install, but this was a CPU render.

    Hey Strat. Not sure what is going on there. From what I understand video drivers shouldn't affect a CPU render in any way - though I'm not a software engineer :D

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited December 1969

    ACross said:
    Everyone keeps going on and on about Iray, which is understandable of course. But aside from a few posts addressing the misconception that only Iray is available in 4.8, people aren't talking much about 3Delight rendering in the Beta.

    So I decided to do a quick side-by-side comparison. First I loaded my file in the beta and rendered in 3Delight after changing the overall size to 1000px X 1304px. It completed in just under 4 minutes.

    Next, I closed the beta and opened 4.7. I loaded the same file and rendered (3Delight) after changing the overall size to 1000px X 1304px. However, I cancelled this render when it reached the render time of the Beta rendered image. It was about 75% complete.

    Render settings were the same for both renders:
    Buckets: 16
    Max Ray Trace Depth: 1
    Pixel Samples (X & Y): 16
    Shadow Samples: 32
    Gain: 1
    Gamma Correction: off
    Shading Rate: 0.50
    Pixel Filter: Sinc
    Pixel Filter Width X & Y: 6.00

    From the log file for DAZ Studio Pro 4.8 Beta:
    Finished Rendering
    Total Rendering Time: 3 minutes 52.40 seconds

    From the log file for DAZ Studio Pro 4.7:
    Render Cancelled
    Total Rendering Time: 3 minutes 53.15 seconds

    Here are the two renders side-by-side, with a gradient added in Photoshop.

    (And I'm betting speed isn't the only improvement in the 3Delight render engine…)

    Left render looks good. "O" I love the progressive mode now, tho I've yet to put it threw it's paces.
    4.8 open behind the browsers, waiting patently :red:
    I have a perfect subject to test as well (No not FW Eve, lol). An HD figure with an impossible to work with face-plant time.
  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,847
    edited December 1969

    Khory - 18 March 2015 11:19 PM

    Question about f/stop in in Iray. Does it only effect light levels or does it also effect depth of field?

    There are two places to adjust the f/stop. In Tone Mapping (Render settings) if effects the light levels. You can also adjust the f/stop for any camera if you turn on the Depth of Field for that camera. As the setting implies, you can then control the depth of field.

    I should have been clearer. I wanted to make sure that the f/stop in the tone mapping only effected the light levels and not the depth of field like it would on a regular camera.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    Khory said:
    Khory - 18 March 2015 11:19 PM

    Question about f/stop in in Iray. Does it only effect light levels or does it also effect depth of field?

    There are two places to adjust the f/stop. In Tone Mapping (Render settings) if effects the light levels. You can also adjust the f/stop for any camera if you turn on the Depth of Field for that camera. As the setting implies, you can then control the depth of field.

    I should have been clearer. I wanted to make sure that the f/stop in the tone mapping only effected the light levels and not the depth of field like it would on a regular camera. Shutter speed right? default is 128, as in 1/128 of a second?
    (EDIT)
    NO! "Shutter Speed (1/x)", is not "F/Stop". I don't know about F/Stop?
    I think if only light levels, "Shutter Speed (1/x)", and as you pointed out to me earlier, "Film ISO". An epic help, thanks.
    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/render_settings/engine/nvidia_iray/tone_mapping/start
    dose not clarify F/Stop, as depth of field, hmm.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,847
    edited December 1969

    I know that I have not noticed any changes in depth of field when I fiddled with the f/stop. But I don't always catch really subtle changes so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I don't want to file away a "fact" in my head that I could be really wrong about if I can help it.

  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,922
    edited March 2015

    Shutter speed right? default is 128, as in 1/128 of a second?
    (EDIT)
    NO! "Shutter Speed (1/x)", is not "F/Stop". I don't know about F/Stop?
    I think if only light levels, "Shutter Speed (1/x)", and as you pointed out to me earlier, "Film ISO". An epic help, thanks.
    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/render_settings/engine/nvidia_iray/tone_mapping/start
    dose not clarify F/Stop, as depth of field, hmm.

    They're real world camera terms.

    ISO- How sensitive the lens is to light. The lower the number, the lower the sensitivity. Can help in very low light situations, generally you want this at ISO 100 for good, clear pictures (some cameras can go to ISO 64, maybe lower? not sure). The higher the ISO, the brighter the picture will be, but it will also become grainy (at least on a dslr, I have zero experience with film).

    F/Stop- Also called aperture. The higher the number, the less light that is allowed into the lens, but also the deeper the dof. F/2.8 (open aperture) will allow a lot of light in, but the background would be extremely blurry (this is good for some macro shots and some portraits). F/11 (smaller opening than 2.8) lets less light in, but it is better for a deeper dof (such as landscapes).

    Shutter speed- the length of time at which the shutter is open (how long the lens is subject to incoming light). It is represented in fractions of a second to full seconds. 1/60 will leave the shutter open longer than 1/125. You can also go into full seconds, but that's unnecessary for DS. It's usually on a DSLR for night shots since it takes that long for light to travel to a camera's lens from space.

    Focal Length (mm)- Well, sometimes size matters. The higher the number, the further the camera can focus. 35mm is a wide angle lens, while something like 200mm would be a telephoto lens better for closing in on something in the distance (they do get longer). The widest lens I think I've seen is called a pancake lens, 10mm. The wider the lens, the smaller it's physical size. Telephoto lenses are longer than a wide angle.

    ISO, F/Stop, and Shutter Speed all work together to make up a photo's exposure.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 5,155
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    ACross said:
    Khory said:
    Question about f/stop in in Iray. Does it only effect light levels or does it also effect depth of field?

    There are two places to adjust the f/stop. In Tone Mapping (Render settings) if effects the light levels. You can also adjust the f/stop for any camera if you turn on the Depth of Field for that camera. As the setting implies, you can then control the depth of field.

    I've been having this issue myself, trying to figure out how to balance the camera with the tone mapping settings. Your explanation suggests I should be able to set the camera itself to say f/11 and the tone mapping to the same and I should come out with the equivalent of a real camera's f/11 (decent dof for landscape, but less light in)?

    Or maybe a portrait using 100mm f/2.8-5.6?

    That sounds right, based on what I've read. My own (short-lived) foray in using the camera's dof wasn't satisfactory, so I figured I'd tackle it another day.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 5,155
    edited December 1969

    Khory said:
    Khory - 18 March 2015 11:19 PM

    Question about f/stop in in Iray. Does it only effect light levels or does it also effect depth of field?

    There are two places to adjust the f/stop. In Tone Mapping (Render settings) if effects the light levels. You can also adjust the f/stop for any camera if you turn on the Depth of Field for that camera. As the setting implies, you can then control the depth of field.

    I should have been clearer. I wanted to make sure that the f/stop in the tone mapping only effected the light levels and not the depth of field like it would on a regular camera.

    That is my understanding. In one of the many posts I've read, (pretty sure is was DAZ_Spooky, but I could be wrong,) it said they kept the two separate because the camera had the ability to turn DOF off and on.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    thanks for the info Vaskania. Now I'm off digging again, lol. What dial was it on that old 35mm that had the infinity symbol. Most of my subject were shall we say, quite a bit away (added pic of the other lens, lol). I didn't need the Depth Of Field fuzzy affect, the atmosphere annoyingly did that for me back in the day. I can comprehend Shutter speed vs ISO, F/Stop is a wild card to me.

    Is this wrong about F/Stop then?

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,922
    edited March 2015

    The image represents f/stop.

    Lower number, more light, shallow dof
    Higher number, less light, deeper dof

    /edit
    Missed a question. The infinity symbol is on the focusing ring of the lens (focal length/mm/zoom). When turned to this, it means you're focused to infinity. Not all lenses have this, but there are ways around that.

    Post edited by Vaskania on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 5,155
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Shutter speed right? default is 128, as in 1/128 of a second?
    (EDIT)
    NO! "Shutter Speed (1/x)", is not "F/Stop". I don't know about F/Stop?
    I think if only light levels, "Shutter Speed (1/x)", and as you pointed out to me earlier, "Film ISO". An epic help, thanks.
    http://docs.daz3d.com/doku.php/public/software/dazstudio/4/referenceguide/interface/panes/render_settings/engine/nvidia_iray/tone_mapping/start
    dose not clarify F/Stop, as depth of field, hmm.

    They're real world camera terms.

    ISO- How sensitive the lens is to light. The lower the number, the lower the sensitivity. Can help in very low light situations, generally you want this at ISO 100 for good, clear pictures (some cameras can go to ISO 64, maybe lower? not sure). The higher the ISO, the brighter the picture will be, but it will also become grainy (at least on a dslr, I have zero experience with film).

    F/Stop- Also called aperture. The higher the number, the less light that is allowed into the lens, but also the deeper the dof. F/2.8 (open aperture) will allow a lot of light in, but the background would be extremely blurry (this is good for some macro shots and some portraits). F/11 (smaller opening than 2.8) lets less light in, but it is better for a deeper dof (such as landscapes).

    Shutter speed- the length of time at which the shutter is open (how long the lens is subject to incoming light). It is represented in fractions of a second to full seconds. 1/60 will leave the shutter open longer than 1/125. You can also go into full seconds, but that's unnecessary for DS. It's usually on a DSLR for night shots since it takes that long for light to travel to a camera's lens from space.

    Focal Length (mm)- Well, sometimes size matters. The higher the number, the further the camera can focus. 35mm is a wide angle lens, while something like 200mm would be a telephoto lens better for closing in on something in the distance (they do get longer). The widest lens I think I've seen is called a pancake lens, 10mm. The wider the lens, the smaller it's physical size. Telephoto lenses are longer than a wide angle.

    ISO, F/Stop, and Shutter Speed all work together to make up a photo's exposure.

    That is a very thorough and succinct explanation. Thank you.

    As for ISO and film, it is the same: the higher the ISO the more grain in the photo. Except film grain is far worse than the noise introduced by a dSLR. And as imaging technology continues to improve, the less noise is a problem. Before I got my first digital camera, I used 100 ISO slide film almost exclusively, but I didn't do any portrait work. I always kept a tripod handy, too. Still do, in fact. Though I don't do as much photography as I used to.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    ACross said:
    That is a very thorough and succinct explanation. Thank you.

    As for ISO and film, it is the same: the higher the ISO the more grain in the photo. Except film grain is far worse than the noise introduced by a dSLR. And as imaging technology continues to improve, the less noise is a problem. Before I got my first digital camera, I used 100 ISO slide film almost exclusively, but I didn't do any portrait work. I always kept a tripod handy, too. Still do, in fact. Though I don't do as much photography as I used to.

    I will so second that, what we get now from the VLT, is very impressive to say the least.
    http://www.eso.org/public/teles-instr/vlt/
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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • VaskaniaVaskania Posts: 5,922
    edited December 1969

    Heh. My tripod is a permanent fixture in the trunk of my jeep. :P

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 5,155
    edited March 2015

    Interesting.

    I have two cameras in the scene I'm working on now. In the Viewport, Camera 2 is selected with the scene "texture Shaded." In the Aux Viewport, Camera 1 and Nividia Iray are selected.

    When I tried to render the scene, DS rendered Camera 1, (Aux Viewport,) not Camera 2.

    I've never had this happen before, though I can't be certain I've had both cameras in the two viewports before, either.

    Testing this, I hid the Aux Viewport and started a render. The correct camera was used. I unhid the Aux Viewport and started another render, and it's still using the correct camera.

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    EDIT: Still doing it, and this time the Aux Viewport was Perspective view. Switched drawstyle to Hidden Line and it still wants to render that view. I'll reboot after this render is done and see if it's still there.

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 5,155
    edited December 1969

    Vaskania said:
    Heh. My tripod is a permanent fixture in the trunk of my jeep. :P

    LOL... I never take the tripod adapter off of my camera! But I do keep the tripod in the house. No jeep. Just a Suzuki XL7 4x4.

    I think we may be kindred spirits! :)

  • edited December 1969

    Where is the Mac 64-bit version yet?

  • Cris PalominoCris Palomino Posts: 3,954
    edited December 1969

    Where is the Mac 64-bit version yet?

    That's what is available. I'm on it now. Or are you just asking where you can find 4.8 at all?

    http://prntscr.com/6infel

  • edited March 2015

    I can only see the 32-bit version as available for download. let me check again. There is a 64-bit Postgres download (beta)

    Post edited by geir.noklebye_c21430300f on
  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    Bringing 3delight to it's knees, and breaking it's will to exist.

    The figure on the left if FWSA Riva, normally with a Face-plant time around 3 seconds. The one on the right will remain unnamed, as I have no ill-will towards the PA. We will simply refer to her as Face-plant-goddess, lol. This is honestly the first time I have ever seen her with her default mats, and HD details, as working with her in a scene is impossible.

    “O” I broke another dress, lol. The one on the left dose not appear to have bones that function, and the two figures are in the same exact pose (CB_Stage 04b). And the facial expressions, well, I was able to do spot renders with FWSA Riva to get it close. As for Face-plant-goddess, I clicked a preset and prayed it would simply be close enough, lol.

    Enough of that, how did the new 3delight fair on the test, lets just say I am impressed. Just not enough to be able to use Face-plant-goddess in a serous scene. She has a Face-plant time of over twenty minutes in the older version of 3delight. I really don't know what is, I waited 22 minutes once, and never tried it again. And that would be over twenty-two minutes of nothing, no pixels, no converting or optimizing mats, just 100% CPU load and no pixels at all in Progressive Render mode (regardless of render settings).

    The new version carved a significant chunk of that nothing-happening-time off. I at least get some of the scene instantly, and the rest is super slow till about 52 seconds when complete Face-plant had started for FWSA Riva and Face-plant-goddess. FWSA Riva started to show something and stopped at the three minute mark. At about 29 minutes and change in to the render, the render finally began to do something. Total Rendering Time: 50 minutes 30.1 seconds, It spent more time in Face-plant, then it did to actually render the scene, lol.

    Face-plant-goddess has a solo face-plant time of just over twenty-four minutes in the new 3delight, AND!
    The rest of the scene continues to render during that time in progressive mode. :-)

    Face-plant-goddess is a figure that should have had alternate shader presets, and didn't :coolmad:
    3Delight's new Progressive Render mode, rocks :coolsmile:
    AMD FX-8350, 32GB Ram, GeForce 8600GT (512MB), SSD Boot drive(C), SSD Programs drive (D), eight data drives, cache & temp in 4GB Ram-Drive.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,391
    edited December 1969

    Inventing new words? Face-plant time? ...
    Anyway: the difference in time to render is most probably the HD - Riva is not a HD morph.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    Kerya said:
    Inventing new words? Face-plant time? ...
    Anyway: the difference in time to render is most probably the HD - Riva is not a HD morph.
    My brother started it with a Tony Hawk skateboarding game. Then it was funny. Now it isn't. It's how long it falls on it's face (Faceplant), and stays there (Time).
    (EDIT)
    Face-plant-goddess, is NOT, FWSA Riva. She is to remain unnamed. This was a test of how the new 3delight handles such horrible scenarios.
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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,391
    edited December 1969

    Kerya said:
    Inventing new words? Face-plant time? ...
    Anyway: the difference in time to render is most probably the HD - Riva is not a HD morph.
    My brother started it with a Tony Hawk skateboarding game. Then it was funny. Now it isn't. It's how long it falls on it's face, and stays there.
    (EDIT)
    Face-plant-goddess, is NOT, FWSA Riva. She is to remain unnamed.

    No so funny ... ok.

    I got that Riva is not the Goddess - I was just explaining why the Goddess takes longer to render.

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,156
    edited March 2015

    Kerya said:
    Kerya said:
    Inventing new words? Face-plant time? ...
    Anyway: the difference in time to render is most probably the HD - Riva is not a HD morph.
    My brother started it with a Tony Hawk skateboarding game. Then it was funny. Now it isn't. It's how long it falls on it's face, and stays there.
    (EDIT)
    Face-plant-goddess, is NOT, FWSA Riva. She is to remain unnamed. This was a test of how the new 3delight handles such horrible scenarios.

    No so funny ... ok.

    I got that Riva is not the Goddess - I was just explaining why the Goddess takes longer to render.More then that. Simply leaving the HD on and swapping out her mats for, well, anyone else's, significantly reduces the face-plant time. It's not just the HD with Face-plant-goddess.

    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • KeryaKerya Posts: 9,391
    edited December 1969

    Swapping mats - that is, the diffuse texture only - in the surface tab?
    Or swapping mats as in doubleclicking another characters material?
    In that case her SSS setup may be more complicated than that of other characters ...
    I am really curious which character that is - if the quality is there, I am willing to wait for the render.

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