OT: oh rats
LeatherGryphon
Posts: 12,160
Non-native English speakers are forgiven but all others please take the following not as criticism but as an opportunity to clear up another mystery of English:
Spelling: Remember You can see a rat in "separate".
Contractions: The contraction for they are is they're. Whereas there identifies a location: example: "Over there." "Go there." "From there".
Heaven knows how difficult it is to learn a second language. I've taken the plunge and have started learning Russian. 8-s
I actually kind of like it. Perhaps I might do better than I did with Spanish and German. But at least it's a way to keep my brain active in my declining years.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSK3BpSfULo
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Please be aware that not everyone who reads and posts on these boards is laboring under some mystery about the English language. In fact they are laboring under the mystery of why spell check doesn't always insert the proper word "normal" people expect to see when we are trying to communicate. Based on some of the common LD miss spellings I see cropping up here repeatedly we are not an under represented group here.
You forgot "their" (belonging to a person or group)
separate is one of my common misspellings mostly on my android where spell-checking is not automatically displayed.
its just one of those words that I constantly get wrong in spite of being aware of it, it looks wrong but I cannot figure out the right way, I seem to have a blindness for some words , your mnemonic may help if I remember it
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Now imagine that on top of typing errors there are also spelling errors of at least that volume every time you type something. Not only do you have to take the time to spell check everything and make corrections there are also situations where the word is just not in the spell checker. That means typing it in google and hoping your close or getting out the missspellings dictionary. And that is if your typing on the forum page and not doing it in a word program first and then copy pasting. I use to stress about ever word I typed because inevitably some one was going to try and make me feel inferior because of spelling errors. At the very least accuse me of being lazy and at worst try and indicate that I wasn't very smart. Frankly I got tired of that BS a good while ago.
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I'm in a similar situation as Khory.. failed every single spelling test I was ever given. Add to the regular mistypes and misspellings substituting B for D and randomly flipping letters around several times per sentence. I hate writing, it's very tiring. It's not as noticeable here because I triple check everything, but if you ever see me in chat and I'm tired or trying to get a thought out quickly. Ha.. it's a mess.
Arg..perhaps the only thing that would be worse than the existing system would be that. I (and it is pretty common with LD people) are phonetic readers and spellers. Stick new letters in there and I am screwed.
Language skills are like manners, they both identify the classes and need practicing. And if you don't have them you can't call on them when it matters.
Sorry what do you mean by ",they both identify the classes and need practicing."?
Plus my automated grammar nazi machine found some issue with your 2nd sentence, did you mean? :-
And if you don’t have them, you can’t call on them when it matters.
;)
And do you see other disabled people as a different class as well?
OK, guys, please note, this is beginning to skate toward the proverbial thin ice. I'm doing a pre-emptive "please keep this civil", so we don't have to lock the thread.
I 'll try to convince the spell check to put this correctly. I can't spell, I've never had a firm grasp of English. My sincerest apologies if I get the wrong to too two, or the many other words that English (and the spell check) has defeated me with. 'separate' is one the spellchecker just can't seem to figure out, lol.
I was in Augsburg Germany until I was 4 (almost 5). When I came to the states, I was tossed in the corner of a forth grade class, to go it alone for a few years, before actually being handed classroom work the other kids were doing. So needles to say, I never really had my primary language down, and written English is a second language that I never was able to grasp completely.
Greetings,
My wife mock-loathes my spelling 'awareness'. For some reason correct spelling came naturally to me, which is absurd since I'm an engineer. (I'm a software engineer, though, and I treat programming as a language problem, not a math or logic problem.) She's a writer, and only around two years ago finally got 'spaghetti' down consistently. :) Spell checkers were a godsend to her, although she still needs proofreaders to vet that the spellchecker picked the right word. Once upon a time grammar checkers would assist in that, so the spellcheck would correct to a word, and the grammar checker would freak out. I think that they've either wired the two together, or simply fewer products carry a grammar checker anymore...
On the other hand, while I wouldn't go as far as to comment on 'classes' shudder, I will say that our brains are wired to search for any signal they can find as to the mindset of the person we're communicating with. Sadly, when encountering poor spelling, punctuation, capitalization and, more subtly, grammar issues online, we do not first think ESL or LD, but poorly educated.
Now if the errors rise to a certain level, or follow a certain pattern, the realization kicks in that English may not be a persons first language, and once over that cliff, we're usually a lot more forgiving. There is, however, an 'uncanny valley' of sorts between those two, where in online communication we can form poor impressions of each other based on our writing.
Once upon a time, the art of writing was practiced by a handful...the 1%, as it were. Now, it's a deep part of our everyday life, and I don't think we've adjusted yet.
That said, pointing out poor writing choices is ALWAYS poor manners. Let me quote from an etiquette expert...
-- Morgan
I think I have some mild dyslexia. Or something that makes spelling difficult.
I'm in the same group as Cypherfox - spelling and grammar tend to come natural, despite an early exposure to Sherlock Holmes (screwed up some of my spelling) and a career in computer programming and support (remember the old matchbook covers? F u cn rd ths u cn mk bg mny prgrmmng).
Two guidelines - "They're looking for their toys over there".
Also "Putt knot yore faith inn spill chukars". After all, spill chuck just indicates that the words chosen have been spelled correctly - not that they are the correct words.
And those of you fighting dyslexia or similar issues - I've a couple of friends in the same boat. And I know it's rough.
Typing's still better for me than writing by hand. I had a good string of years where I'd switch every third p and b. also my s and g look similar, as soon as I start writing quickly they look identical, that is before my hand erases them because I'm left handed.
I'm fantastic when speaking though. I recently realized I unconsciously never end sentences with prepositions.
And yes, I am also a vile speller.
Non-native English speaker here... :-)
Thanks for the memorizing sentence about separate. That is one word I keep constantly spelling wrong, but the rat-thingy is a great reminder.
Greetings,
Personal Dump Ahead:Actually, when I was Very Young(tm), I was diagnosed as having a problem with fine motor coordination. I spent 4-5 years going through 'special education', with probably the lightest learning disability in my class. I was introduced, however, to the Speak'n'Spell, which was fucking revolutionary and a damn shame that they aren't standard in every classroom nowadays.
Handwriting is laborious; painful and slow, and nigh-on-unreadable unless I go even slower. Before computers, I actually handed in a book report in audio tape form, once we understood what was wrong. I was probably around 7.
The computer made everything better. I 'obtained' word processor software (Electric Pencil) for the TRS-80 when I was around 11, and from then on I wrote EVERYTHING in that, from book reports to something roughly akin to what we would now call fanfic. ;)
I have been told at times, by my mother (whose memory is sadly not the best) that I was dyslexic, ADHD, and some folks have suggested that I was on the Aspergers spectrum. If any of those are/were true, they were a sufficiently light touch that they never rose to the level of a real learning disability. Using the computer made d's and b's not an issue, my hyperactivity died down as I gained weight, my attention span resolved to suck for everything that I don't like and be deeply engrossing for everything I do like, and my issues with body language and touch were resolved with sufficient conscious study (and having folks who I loved, and wanted to hold/be held by).
These things can be real killers for other people, and I don't dismiss them at all, and they manifest online in a variety of ways. Dyslexia, in stronger doses, can be really rough to online writing, but it's also one of the ones that's easiest to 'catch' with automated software. The real problem is that many of these, and other, LD issues (and late-recognized vision issues!) set folks back permanently in the spelling world, because they were told that they couldn't spell, or learning to spell was tied to handwriting, which was agonizing or defocusing, or demoralizing.
I guess the long-form point of this is that we should all be a little kinder to the folks around us, whether they write well or not. It may be hard to work with folks who have difficulty getting their thoughts across, but the extra time is worth it, no matter the reason for their issues.
And that's about as personal as I've ever been 'round these parts. :-/ Just be good to each other...
-- Morgan
My mother was a teacher and she continually corrected my grammer when I was trying to tell her something, it was soooooo frustrating.
I had to write every word I mispelt at school ot 5x and ended up writting hundreds of words every day and it never improved my spelling one bit :lol:
Non-native English speaker here... :-)
Thanks for the memorizing sentence about separate. That is one word I keep constantly spelling wrong, but the rat-thingy is a great reminder.
I thank you for taking my post in the spirit it was intended.
Gallaf ynganu Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Ond ni allaf ei sillafu
Well apparently you can :)
Well apparently you can :)
ctrl c ctrl v :coolsmirk:
ctrl c ctrl v :coolsmirk:
Lol, I love this name on the sign at the railway station, it must cause so many administration and postal issues to.
Edit: cough, i mean too
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
You forgot 'their'... ;)
and yes, I am a non-native, but reside in Northern Ireland these days... even the youth apparently do not get grammar in school these days, which in my schooldays was common practice for every language. ( I speak 5 languages of which 4 fluently and one that has gotten rusty that used to be fluent)
And do you see other disabled people as a different class as well?
Analogies are never perfect.
I would have said "groups" instead of "classes," myself. Using grammar instead of spelling, there are some groups where it's expected to boldly split infinitives, and others where ending a sentence with a preposition is a state of affairs up with which they will not put. Knowing what the rules are for a particular group is important, whether you want to follow or purposefully break the rules.
Typesetting in Welsh must be a bitch of a job trying to get column justification to come out right! 8-s
ctrl c ctrl v :coolsmirk:
Lol, I love this name on the sign at the railway station, it must cause so many administration and postal issues to.
Edit: cough, i mean too
To be honest most tend to just put LlanfairPG
At least where we live is far easier to spell and pronounce Penywern but causes more postal issues as the PTB have decided that it doesn't exist any more as a separate village and insist we live in Dowlais (although the estate agents think Penywern is classier and insist on using it.)