Witch Doctor and Basketball Player? Oh, the fail
This discussion has been closed.
Daz 3D is part of 
Connect
DAZ Productions, Inc.
7533 S Center View Ct #4664
West Jordan, UT 84084
Licensing Agreement | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | EULA
© 2025 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Comments
This reminds me of a scene in Dragon the Bruce Lee Story. Bruce and his Girlfriend go on a date and see a movie, the movie happens to be Breakfast at Tiffany's. They get to the scene where Mickey Rooney is playing Holly's Asian neighbor. All the white people in the audience are completely oblivious to how offensive Rooney's portrayal of an Asian character is, but you can just see the reaction on Bruce's face. These promo images, they are Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's.
Forgive me, but is this not generalising a large group of people based on their race?
OMG: that's a typo. I mean to write "White people are NOT bad, they're not racists."
You know what, here it is...
http://youtu.be/lbiymQJsC8M
... ...
I'm not calling this racist, i'm calling it what it is, ignorant, unthinking and grossly insensitive
OMG: that's a typo. I mean to write "White people are NOT bad, they're not racists."
Still generalisation based on race imho, I'm sure some are racist and some are not. Some good, some bad. Different...
Plenty of "white people" live in ethnically diverse cultures outside of the USA as well.
I don't think the normal way to read my comment is that I'm making a claim about all white people, given the context in which this appeared. I'm making a point that many white people don't know what it means to live day-to-day as a person of color. Because of that lack of knowledge, they think that things like the Witch Doctor image are "just pictures," when images like that can be deeply hurtful.
... ...
I can honestly say when I saw the promos I DID NOT think ohhh now I can do witch doctors and voodoo priests I said okay that witch doctor I wouldn't use but the one for Monique I saw it and went oh that would work great for a (white)female character i need for a period piece without the hat or the staff she is carrying.
Art Work should stir the soul get the blood moving. We can not please everyone all the time.
As long as it does not invoke someone to go out and hurt another human Artists should be free to do what they want.
We shouldn't have to create in fear and that is what it has come down too and it is a sad day in the art world.
... ...
So what is the lesson to learn from this?
That from now on, there should be no generalisation or stereotypes in marketing? No people of african descent playing basketball, no females wearing seductive clothing, no muscular males, no caucasians bearing swords or guns or associating with castles, pirates, military etc No male heroes, no maidens in distress, no asian kung-fu fighers?
Sounds like the death of creativity to me and the rise of mass censorship kinda like fascism or 1984.
It sounds like a lot of opportunity to me. There can be black people playing basketball. If you love basketball, you might well want to make a tribute to your favorite star. But there needs to be more than than. Imagine if instead of the Witch Doctor and basket ball, DAZ had launched with some contemporary African outfits. I think its in Ghana, but I'm not sure—Africa is a huge place!—there is a group of men who are REALLY into fashion and go all out with fancy outfits. How great would it be to get the super fashion guys instead of the witch doctor? Or a character like the Jonathan Sykes steampunk guy I posted earlier in the thread? There is SO much more DAZ could do if they stepped away from the stereotypes. And most of those would be more flexible, offering more opportunities for the artist community.
Often, IMO, when people complain about "censorship" when it comes to being sensitive to other cultures, they're showing a lack of imagination. Respecting people doesn't limit us, it opens us up to more and better opportunities.
I'm not clear what you're trying to communicate here. Do you feel something you've said was taken out of context and vilified? or do you think the Witch Doctor image was taken out of context? If so, what would be the appropriate context?
That is pretty much "Politically Correct" at it's finest. You can't do anything because, somebody, somewhere, will be offended by it.
I actually didn't even notice the outfits, other then the fact that they were not node (for understandable reasons). I was looking at the facial features, and skin tone, and thinking, somebody somewhere did a really good job making these figures. The other stuff in the pro pack looked good as well, the hair, add-on figures, emotion poses, etc. I like them, and am going to buy them.
No body is forcing you to buy outfits you don't want. you don't like the outfits, don't get them. It's that simple.
So what is the lesson to learn from this?
That from now on, there should be no generalisation or stereotypes in marketing? No people of african descent playing basketball, no females wearing seductive clothing, no muscular males, no caucasians bearing swords or guns or associating with castles, pirates, military etc No male heroes, no maidens in distress, no asian kung-fu fighers?
Sounds like the death of creativity to me and the rise of mass censorship kinda like fascism or 1984.
You know when I was a kid, it was perfectly acceptable to have little black Sambo stuff in your house. Heck, when I was growing up I honestly thought nigger is just what black people were called. No one batted an eye when someone said it. Now days you almost never see little Black Sambo, many here don't even know what I'm talking to. And the thought of calling a black person nigger is completely unthinkable to me. So do I feel censored? Do i feel like I am suddenly living in a fascist dictatorship? Nope. Having empathy and sensitivity toward others is not Fascism. And I certainly don't think its the death of creativity. What is so damn creative about portraying people in the same old stereotypes they have been portrayed in for years??? That is the lack of creativity. Stereotypes show no creativity at all.
And the problem is not the portrayal. The problem is when you think of a black character you automatically think baller, thug, savage, when you think of a Asian you always think Kung Fu and nothing else. Why don't you think Asian pool player? Why don't you think Black business man? why don't you think Hispanic pilot? The problem is the same stereotypes being used over and over. It sends the message that if you are of this ethnicity this is ALL that you can be. Like i said before it would be like if every time you saw a white person in an ad they were always portrayed as dumb stupid rednecks because that is all a white person can be. I'm not saying ban the stereotype. Would I portray a black person as a rapper? absolutely. The problem is ONLY EVER SHOWING BLACK PEOPLE AS RAPPERS AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE BECAUSE THEY NEVER CAN BE ANYTHING ELSE EVER
I can appreciate that, but context and intent play a huge part of things.
The absolute last thing I want to do is get into a discussion about racism and appropriateness. I would like to offer my perspective, though, that it might enlighten or balance things out a bit.
When you saw the "witch doctor" picture you were offended, and I can understand that, a bit. When I saw it, I was excited, because this was almost the exact character I needed for a series of stories my daughter and I are working on. While I wouldn't have used the name, "witch doctor", what I saw was a N'anga or Nganga, a Bantu spiritual healer (for the record, in Zimbabwe, N'angas are recognized and registered under the ZINATHA - Zimbabwe National Traditional Healer's Association - and not a derogatory stereotype at all). Our stories deal with different cultural protectors, who help hold back the Big Dark ("Problem Solvers").
With every character of racial background, the PAs attempt to create some characters signifying different aspects of their culture. We got a Greco-Roman male and female and we got characters based on the Greco-Roman gods and heroes. We got an Asian couple and we got Shaolin priests (another Problem Solver we needed, yay!) and other martial artists.
Someone pointed out that the white guy got a suit; well, yeah, and that suit can be worn by all these new guys. I don't think we need a suit with every new male, not if it means throwing out more diverse outfits.
No one has said that all orientals are martial artists, but most of our modern martial arts are of asiatic roots, so why not celebrate that?
What it comes down to is that these poor PAs are asked to come up with something showing the diversity these new characters bring to the party. Something culturally unique.
If you feel they're just insensitive, then make some suggestions, now's your chance to inspire what you want to see; I'm pretty sure some of these guys will jump on any decent idea.
If you were going to launch Darius and Monique, what five or six heroic characters types would you have come up with for each that showed off their cultural heritage without being insensitive?
Me, I'd be stumped. Anything I could come up with, all historical cultural heroes, would no doubt offend someone... but then, almost anything someone posts will usually tick off somebody, somewhere.
In the meantime, you're always free to buy just the main character and ignore any outfits you find offensive. Voting with your wallet always works.
-- Walt Sterdan
We understand the seriousness of this concern, but please remember to keep the forum Terms of Service in mind, particularly the rules about politics, personal attacks, and accusations of wrongdoing. If it continues to degenerate we will have no choice but to close the thread.
Yes it was a "PC" answer because what I wanted to say was not "PC" this is the culture we live in now. Be "PC" or be considered a racist or insensitive or whatever.
I will buy both when I get the funds. Right now I can't see spending the money on a sparse bundle not because of what is in them but because they have to little for the price for my budget.
You know when I was a kid, it was perfectly acceptable to have little black Sambo stuff in your house. Heck, when I was growing up I honestly thought nigger is just what black people were called. No one batted an eye when someone said it. Now days you almost never see little Black Sambo, many here don't even know what I'm talking to. And the thought of calling a black person nigger is completely unthinkable to me. So do I feel censored? Do i feel like I am suddenly living in a fascist dictatorship? Nope. Having empathy and sensitivity toward others is not Fascism. And I certainly don't think its the death of creativity. What is so damn creative about portraying people in the same old stereotypes they have been portrayed in for years??? That is the lack of creativity. Stereotypes show no creativity at all.
And the problem is not the portrayal. The problem is when you think of a black character you automatically think baller, thug, savage, when you think of a Asian you always think Kung Fu and nothing else. Why don't you think Asian pool player? Why don't you think Black business man? why don't you think Hispanic pilot? The problem is the same stereotypes being used over and over. It sends the message that if you are of this ethnicity this is ALL that you can be. Like i said before it would be like if every time you saw a white person in an ad they were always portrayed as dumb stupid rednecks because that is all a white person can be. I'm not saying ban the stereotype. Would I portray a black person as a rapper? absolutely. The problem is ONLY EVER SHOWING BLACK PEOPLE AS RAPPERS AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE BECAUSE THEY NEVER CAN BE ANYTHING ELSE EVER
No here is the problem right here in this post. People automatically assuming what the other person is thinking. I do not think the above when i see people of other ethnicity. I see a person, sometimes nice sometimes not. I am a middle aged graying white woman I get so tired of people assuming I think the worst of other ethnicity when I don't. I have always said if you treat me with kindness I will teat you with Kindness. I try my best to live by the golden rule.
My first impression of people is how they dress as are most peoples first impressions. I can't say that doesn't sway me on how i treat people it does but not in the way you think. The more ragged the dress the nicer I become because those are people who need your kindness most and the nastiest people i have ever meet have been dressed in three piece suits and carrying brief cases and that's of all elasticities and in my job I see them all.
These are fantasy archetypes. White males are portrayed as knights and barbarians. Search the store for "Irish" and it's all red hair and leprechaun outfits. Search for "Egyptian" and you get mummy's and pharaohs. Point is, It would be racist to give Monique and Darius special treatment and fob them off with generic clothing, rather than portraying the most colorful aspects of their culture (excuse the pun). If you want to influence the direction of products, there's nothing stopping anyone from doing something active by becoming a PA and submitting their own.
Hey Walt, that was a very good response and what an excellent project you and your daughter have undertaken. If DAZ had not applied the label "Witch Doctor" and brought in all of the history of using native faiths as evidence of barbarism (and caricaturing those faiths as head-hunters, cannibals, etc.); AND introduced more variety with their first Genesis 2 black characters, I'd agree with you.
The problem is that DAZ was either sloppy with their labelling or didn't do the research to find out the cultural heritage.
There's also the problem of only creating one look for a particular group. The Asian martial artists is a great example. Asians do everything anybody else does. It's not honoring them to present them as something that's not a huge part of their culture, but is what outsiders often assume they do. If DAZ wanted to develop historical costumes, they could have looked at scholars, rulers, and trade people. Sailors and pirates, inventors and priests. Lots of cool hats, too. If you're not willing to do the research, perhaps you're in the wrong line of work. Or you do steampunk or fantasy. Why not take Wolof tribal patterns and use them to create some kind of new futurism?
I feel this really comes down to DAZ not having the cultural awareness or sensitivity to deal with race well. A lot of companies struggle with this, and DAZ is based in a state that is more white and more culturally homogenous than most. So it is in some ways understandable. But they need to recognize they have a problem and address it. It's not acceptable to use imagery associated with the worst racial atrocities unknowingly.
Well its pretty obvious that once again this will be completely ignored and shoved under the rug, so go ahead Daz, release your Hispanic border jumpers, your mid east terrorist bombers, your black slave cotton pickers, and Chinese laundry workers, no one cares so you can keep crapping on anyone who aint white like you
congrats, you get to keep your stereotypes cause no one gives a flying rats backside
... ...
... ...
You have not heard anything i have said, either that or you are deliberately attacking a strawman, either way, have fun with that
... ...
I am afraid we will have to close this thread. This discussion is not appropriate for the DAZ 3D forums.