Learning UberEnvironment 2 Return To Topic

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  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Okay, I found out something interesting just now. If I lower the intensity I do, in fact, lose that colour bounce, but if I double the intensity scale, I seem to get it all back. Have you explored that yet?
    I haven't but that makes sense. What you're doing. If you lower intensity to 50% but increase the scale to 200% you're back to where you started. (Effectively 100% since 50% x 200% = 100%)
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Make sure you catch these examples of Bounce Light (GI) mode on the previous page: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/210362/

  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited January 2013

    Basically, the first render is UE2 with GI enabled, the light intensity at 100%. The colour bounce is what you'd expect. The second is the intensity at 50%, and the colour bounce corrospondingly goes down. The third is still at 50%, but with the Intensity Scale set to 200% so I get all the colour bounce back that I had in the first render.

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    Post edited by wancow on
  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    wancow said:
    Basically, the first render is UE2 with GI enabled, the light intensity at 100%. The colour bounce is what you'd expect. The second is the intensity at 50%, and the colour bounce corrospondingly goes down. The third is still at 50%, but with the Intensity Scale set to 200% so I get all the colour bounce back that I had in the first render.
    Yes, as explained above that would be exactly as expected since 50% x 200% = 100%.
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Forgive me... I'm a little giddy for having discovered something allbymyself... :)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,250
    edited December 1969

    adamr001 said:
    Re: GI mode... What GI mode in UE2 means is that it is the "bounce" calculation provided by IBL w/Direcitonal Shadows mode without the primary light cast by the IBL map (You end up with just the bounce, that's why it says "Bounce Light (GI)". The Bounce Light mode should only be used when other lighting is the primary source of light in the scene. This will give you the color bouncing of objects without taking the full IBL mode render time hit (in theory anyway).

    Thx Adam couldn't do this myself as my computer went pop the other day but you explain things so much better than me anyway. :)
  • wancowwancow Posts: 2,708
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    adamr001 said:
    Re: GI mode... What GI mode in UE2 means is that it is the "bounce" calculation provided by IBL w/Direcitonal Shadows mode without the primary light cast by the IBL map (You end up with just the bounce, that's why it says "Bounce Light (GI)". The Bounce Light mode should only be used when other lighting is the primary source of light in the scene. This will give you the color bouncing of objects without taking the full IBL mode render time hit (in theory anyway).

    Thx Adam couldn't do this myself as my computer went pop the other day but you explain things so much better than me anyway. :)

    This is becoming my favourite thread... :)

  • adamr001adamr001 Posts: 22
    edited December 1969

    Glad to hear it. It has been one of my favorites as well. Thanks for bringing it back to life with more questions and a few answers! :D

  • GiGi_7GiGi_7 Posts: 1,124
    edited December 1969

    I have a question about UE2. I need to restrict the use of a UE2 light in a illuminance bucle, but I don't know if there is a parameter __category for UE2 that serve for illuminance and lightsource functions in SL. If it there is, Does anyone know what is?

  • IceEmpressIceEmpress Posts: 638
    edited December 1969

    Okay, I've read this entire topic over and over and over again, and I STILL don't understand anything;.

    Mainly, why does the default UE light (and neon light) turn all the objects into black silhouettes? Even when I play around with the render settings and UE light colors, and shading rates, this does not change.

    Also, what are the diffuse/spec/ambient lights, how do I create them, and why do I need them?

    This tutorial is INCREDIBLY nice and all, but it isn't basic enough, and it's not cxomplete. Could you please add a troubleshooting & FAQ section to your tutorial for things like this?

  • viluvuluviluvulu Posts: 66
    edited July 2013

    opal, double click on "!Uberenvironment2 Base" when you have a scene without other lights. Do you still get black silhouettes?
    If so then there's something wrong.

    Spec lights are good for (the way i use it) skin shininess or special "effects", like displacement veins or water drops.
    Just add a distant light and set it to Specular Only.

    Post edited by viluvulu on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,250
    edited July 2013

    opal42987 said:
    Okay, I've read this entire topic over and over and over again, and I STILL don't understand anything;.

    Mainly, why does the default UE light (and neon light) turn all the objects into black silhouettes? Even when I play around with the render settings and UE light colors, and shading rates, this does not change.

    Also, what are the diffuse/spec/ambient lights, how do I create them, and why do I need them?

    This tutorial is INCREDIBLY nice and all, but it isn't basic enough, and it's not cxomplete. Could you please add a troubleshooting & FAQ section to your tutorial for things like this?

    First off in Adam's defense this is ONLY about UE2 and not other lights. If you want to know about Area Lighting try this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/ which the Neon Light preset is a part of and not UE2.
    Post edited by Szark on
  • IceEmpressIceEmpress Posts: 638
    edited December 1969

    Ohhh. Also, I apologize if I came across as aggressive-- that was not my mentality at the time, I was merely a bit frustrated and anxious. And now, I feel like an idiot for not noticing (or not registering) the "UE2" part >_<</p>

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,250
    edited December 1969

    No problem I was just pointing it out to save any more cobfusion. No harm was done.

    OTish: Yes this is a lot to take in at first and trust me you won't take it all in overnight it will take time and one day it will all fall in to place, if you work at it. I often go back to tutorails months in not years later to refresh the info and once you have done that for a few times it soon sinks in. These younger folks these days can soak this stuff up like a sponge but me I need to drill it in. 4 years later I am happy with what I know and have a serious thrist for more.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,774
    edited August 2013

    Okay, question. The light from UE2- does it penetrate THROUGH things? I'm not sure how that works with any of the lights frankly, never had to think about it (sheepish but always admit what I don't know.) I'm asking because the feet in my scene are flatly lit because they are in a slightly shadowed area. The rest of her, I'm still playing with the specular but will have to tone it down I think- so I have two different problems on the same figure. (OF COURSE I do, lol) (EDIT: I'll post just the area in question when the render finishes.)

    When people encounter areas in shadows, is it best to go into the Surfaces tab and just adust the specular for that area?
    And Adam, thanks for the thread. Tutorials take SO much work to do the graphics and explanation- I know this took you days to do. Appreciate you very much.
    Cathie

    Post edited by Novica on
  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,774
    edited August 2013

    Here's what I am playing with. The first one is with the specular on the OTHER side of my main light (hadn't read this thread.) The second, I moved it WITH the main light as suggested.

    The problem with the feet can be seen in the second one (the most recent.) Be kind folks, this is my first UE2 render! And I have a lot of complicated lighting that isn't shown- aka, point lights all around her that I have to juggle with the glow. You'll see the green by the chin, the hip area, the arm where it connects to the shoulder- and that was intended. I just didn't want a green alien gal, I want SOME glow.

    (Full scene is on the art studio thread, see link in signature. For others who are new to this, not assuming you're interested, but you can follow along if you want to see what I'm trying by moving specular lights, changing settings.)

    EDIT: changing the specular to the other side wasn't the only change, I also darkened lights but made them darker shades, aka, instead of a lighter pink, I went with a mauve so the skin was more ruddy.

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    Post edited by Novica on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 47,534
    edited December 1969

    uberLight looks for obstructions out to the distance set as (from memory) Max raytrace distance. If it doesn't find any obstruction the light is not reduced, even if it's in the middle of a totally enclosed space.

  • NovicaNovica Posts: 19,774
    edited December 1969

    So if I understand correctly, that's how to light an interior room evenly (first) before adding any directional lighting?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 47,534
    edited December 1969

    Yes, optionally with occlusion (shadowing the nooks and crannies) and light intensity and colour controlled by a map to fake the effect of indirect light bouncing off an environment (or indeed with real bounce light, but that's a different mode).

  • austin_paracleteaustin_paraclete Posts: 7
    edited December 1969

    Hello, I have been trying to use UE2 IDL setting and DAZ kept crashing when I put G2F HD in the scene. I lowered the quality setting and it would still do the same thing. My hardware is i5 3570K, GTX 660, 16G RAM, ASUS MAXIMUS V. Is my hardware good enough to run or it is the program issue?

  • AndySAndyS Posts: 1,354
    edited December 1969

    Hi Adam,

    what I really like to know is: How did you get the distict direction of the directed occlusion in the picture of your post #6 ?
    What does it depend on to determine the direction and inclination angle?

    Andy

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    I just figured out how to load the UE2 base into a scene, and that's about it. New is an understatement.

    The Default settings don't seam to do spheres justice as there super grainy. Is there a simple set of settings to get basic results that are slightly better then this, for a beginner?

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,250
    edited December 1969

    thanks for bringing this over here zarcondeegrissom

    yes there are some light and Quality presets provided. They should be in the Content Library (if Smart Content fails to find them) under Daz Studio Formats > Light Presets > omnifrecker > Uber Environment 2 >

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,245
    edited June 2014

    Thanks, I see them, and will try them out.
    I'm guessing they change allot of settings rather then just one. I'm just trying to figure out what one effects the graininess of the sphere the most.
    (edit)
    The "3Hi" setting is not bad, and that only took about four minutes and change. Max error 0.50, & Occlusion Samples of 64. Max error or Occlusion? hmmm.

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    Post edited by ZarconDeeGrissom on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,250
    edited December 1969

    these are the three main quality settings
    First you have Occlusion samples which is to control the quality of AO (Ambient Occlusion) AO is non direct light (Ambient Light) shadowing where light doesn't get bounced around much due to either the surface properties and /or the proximity of objects. The closer they together the less light gets a chance to brighten tight spaces. Look at a room light with ambient light (not direct sunlight) see the shadows under the sofa, bed, etc, the shadows between the sofa cushions, all those little subtle shadowing that is Ambient Occlusion.

    Shading Rate lower the better but 4.00 will do for most scenes. Though this is provided you have a lowish Render settings Shading Rate. ;)

    Max Error again lower is better.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/5320/P15/#67985 this is where adam explains these in more depth

  • ZarconDeeGrissomZarconDeeGrissom Posts: 5,245
    edited December 1969

    O.K. I think I got that now. I must have skimmed past that post looking for the "Here is the power switch" one, lol.
    Turns out that the biggest one for grannie spheres, is the Occlusion Samples. Uber light panels like a setting of 32 min for smooth curves, UE2 needs double that 64 minimum. The rest can stay default, and you'll have reduced graininess.

    Good thing to keep around for them gray cloudy outside scenes.

  • srieschsriesch Posts: 3,914
    edited December 1969

    The value I use for the Occlusion Samples seems to vary dramatically from scene to scene, and on how dimly lit the scene is. I have seen 32 work in one scene, but had to set it to around 1024 for a different scene to get rid of the grainy-ness in the shadows, which slowed rendering WAY down. Don't hesitate to play with large changes in the value, and don't assume a setting you used in one scene is "standard"; you might need to adjust it quite a bit.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,538
    edited December 1969

    Some more stuff to consider:

    1) MaxError is a weird parameter to control (it's not just my opinion, it's from a Pixar Renderman source, and these are, like, the top authority on anything Renderman =)). What it is: an "acceptable devation" from the non-interpolated (aka the slowest) solution, in percent (anyone truly able to visualise what it means?). MaxError's optimum values will vary from scene to scene, too.

    2) "Occlusion" shading rate in UE2 is actually the global irradiance shading rate - i.e. it will influence the IDL mode, too. The default 3Delight irradiance shading rate is 4. A good choice for most scenes re:speed vs quality. // yes there is a handful of various shading rates in a Renderman-compliant engine like 3Delight //

    3) Combat graininess with samples, "splotchiness" (artefacts similar to high JPEG compression) with irradiance shading rate. But when you raise something, see if you maybe can lower the other or MaxError now.

    4) Now this is a cool trick some might not have heard about: The UberSurface shader and its relatives (HSS, US2) have that "occlusion shading rate" parameter (works when setting the shader's Occlusion mode to Override) which is irradiance shading rate per-surface. So you can make it higher or lower per-surface! For instance, when all the scene looks great with a high value like maybe 16, but there are some pesky materials that refuse to lose the "splotchiness" - then lower just their irradiance shading rate, not the global one. Less speed penalty. Again, works for IDL and GI, too.

  • hi,

    so basically, if i want an outdoor scene...

    i just set the uberenvironment2 to occlusion w/ soft shadows, and i add 3 distant lights sorrounding the scene. The lights' color and brightness  are correspond to the environment  map. only the brighter light casts ray shadows . the other 2 are just for illumination and specularity purposes... so does  this actually make sense? or at least, qualified as realisitic render settings?

  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,157
    Anymatter said:

    hi,

    so basically, if i want an outdoor scene...

    i just set the uberenvironment2 to occlusion w/ soft shadows, and i add 3 distant lights sorrounding the scene. The lights' color and brightness  are correspond to the environment  map. only the brighter light casts ray shadows . the other 2 are just for illumination and specularity purposes... so does  this actually make sense? or at least, qualified as realisitic render settings?

    That seems like a lot of light to me.  1 distant light ought to be enough for general purposes, and always use shadows on any light (unless its specular only, I guess; but I dislike that practice).

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