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Can the store please standardize location of content

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  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Thanks for stopping in to comment Fenix, I can understand your position as a PA that has made texture packs for other products, however it would be easy for daz to have texture pack vendors create a vanity folder within the main products materials folder. By doing it that way customers won't have to try and remember who made expansion packs for whatever set they are using. 

    Or when stumbling on an expansion pack in ...\Clothing\-DaisyDuck-\Mat ISGTop\, they didn't have to go Sherlock Holmes on what the heck is it meant for...

  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203

    PerttiA said:

    shadowhawk1 said:

    Thanks for stopping in to comment Fenix, I can understand your position as a PA that has made texture packs for other products, however it would be easy for daz to have texture pack vendors create a vanity folder within the main products materials folder. By doing it that way customers won't have to try and remember who made expansion packs for whatever set they are using. 

    Or when stumbling on an expansion pack in ...\Clothing\-DaisyDuck-\Mat ISGTop\, they didn't have to go Sherlock Holmes on what the heck is it meant for...

    You make a great point there, it would bed nice if it were easier to link a texture pack back to the original. 

  • ioonrxoonioonrxoon Posts: 896

    I don't much care for this since I manually install everything in my own folders, but even for me it's annoying to see outfits with feet pose in the pose folder and accessories in props folder or weapons with grips in pose, items in props, then again in accessories for each character type and so on. Takes a while to sort and figure out where everything goes if I add multiple items at once.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,181
    Richard Haseltine said:

    Clothing texture sets are usually allowed in a sub-folder of the main product>Materials folder.

    Richard, do you know if it's also allowed for other types of products such as Characters, Anatomy or Props? Because if so, I can start adhering to this system no problem.
  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,181
    ioonrxoon said:

    I don't much care for this since I manually install everything in my own folders, but even for me it's annoying to see outfits with feet pose in the pose folder and accessories in props folder or weapons with grips in pose, items in props, then again in accessories for each character type and so on. Takes a while to sort and figure out where everything goes if I add multiple items at once.

    It's the same when you are looking inside a character folder and the eyebrows are somewhere else as well as the character preset and shaping presets. But, alas, that's how we are asked to package things in order to be accepted into the store.
  • SlimerJSpudSlimerJSpud Posts: 1,456

    I agree 100% about the HDRI sets. If it's an HDRI and it comes with a .duf to load it, then it belongs in Light Presets. Period. I can see there are some products where there is a genuine question about where to put it, though. Take the iV Eternal Darkness set. It has poses for both G8F and G8M, plus it comes with sharp fingernail and fang morphs. There are other sets like that which ended up in a "Genesis 8" folder that was for both male and female. That seems OK because at least it's all in one place even though I won't find it under Genesis 8 Female, which is where I usually look. Because I get products from other stores, as well as random freebies, I've always installed manually. Since switching to G2/G3/G8, I haven't felt the need to rearrange a lot of things like I did in the anarchy that was the Poser file structure. Don't get me started...

  • ioonrxoonioonrxoon Posts: 896

    FenixPhoenix said:

    ioonrxoon said:

    I don't much care for this since I manually install everything in my own folders, but even for me it's annoying to see outfits with feet pose in the pose folder and accessories in props folder or weapons with grips in pose, items in props, then again in accessories for each character type and so on. Takes a while to sort and figure out where everything goes if I add multiple items at once.

    It's the same when you are looking inside a character folder and the eyebrows are somewhere else as well as the character preset and shaping presets. But, alas, that's how we are asked to package things in order to be accepted into the store.

     

    Yeah, characters as well... figured it was something like that; I can imagine one PA to come up with such weird folder structures, but it's hard to imagine multiple PA coming up with the same pattern.

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024

    ioonrxoon said:

    FenixPhoenix said:

    ioonrxoon said:

    I don't much care for this since I manually install everything in my own folders, but even for me it's annoying to see outfits with feet pose in the pose folder and accessories in props folder or weapons with grips in pose, items in props, then again in accessories for each character type and so on. Takes a while to sort and figure out where everything goes if I add multiple items at once.

    It's the same when you are looking inside a character folder and the eyebrows are somewhere else as well as the character preset and shaping presets. But, alas, that's how we are asked to package things in order to be accepted into the store.

    Yeah, characters as well... figured it was something like that; I can imagine one PA to come up with such weird folder structures, but it's hard to imagine multiple PA coming up with the same pattern.

    Someone is clearly stuck on Poser Content folder structure, and I don't mean the PA's... 

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 108,004

    FenixPhoenix said:

    Richard Haseltine said:

    Clothing texture sets are usually allowed in a sub-folder of the main product>Materials folder.

    Richard, do you know if it's also allowed for other types of products such as Characters, Anatomy or Props? Because if so, I can start adhering to this system no problem.

    I don't know, I can't think of many examples. It's true that Daz has tended to put its own Name # character's material in the Materials folder rather than in a subfolder of characters (which I always find annoying) so it may well be that they are consistently incosistent over location.

  • thenoobduckythenoobducky Posts: 68
    edited August 2021
    Thankfully the metadata for most products are fairly consistent and can be used to sort products into a better ordering. At least for character, hair, clothing it works pretty well. Although some products are missing metadata. If there was a hypothetical script to resort items, how would you restructure the categories?
    Post edited by thenoobducky on
  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562

    I don't mind Vanity folders...  except for the ones with mispellings and inconsistent placement of spaces, dashes, underscores. etc.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,843

    Jason Galterio said:

    I don't mind Vanity folders...  except for the ones with mispellings and inconsistent placement of spaces, dashes, underscores. etc.

    kinda like the daveyabbo whose characters are installed in 'character" instead of "characters". It's why I no longer purchase their products

  • TheMysteryIsThePointTheMysteryIsThePoint Posts: 3,222

    I don't get why this is so messed up, either. I mean, it's not like DS has an industrial-stength relational database like PostgreSQL at its disposal to structure things. But I'm sure someone will pop in soon to dismiss our legitimate gripes about the user experience, fear not.

  • 3DSaga3DSaga Posts: 648
    edited August 2021

    I can understand that some items might challenge the filing system, but the categories are broad enough that most things should be fairly easy to file. I really don't understand why some of my environments and HDRIs are filed as Props. It wouldn't be as confusing if there were some consistency. I don't think the filing system should be a creative exercise, and neither should the task of finding things.

    There have been times I've had to resort to asking on the New Users Forum for help finding things. I didn't realize as a user I have some flexibility in filing products.

    Post edited by 3DSaga on
  • magog_a4eb71abmagog_a4eb71ab Posts: 769

    Serene Night said:

    I love the pa JDA HDRI, but come on NOW!

    HDRI's now go into at least 5 different locations. It's getting a bit ridiculous Here are examples:

    Ender Colony HDRI:

    Light Presets>Render Settings

    The Day after:

    Presets>Render Settings

    Cyberpunk HRDI

    Render Presets>JDA_HDRI>Cyberpunk HDRI

    Winter forest

    Presets>Render Settings>JDA_HDRI\Winter Woodland

    It's a mess! And camera settings in different places, sometimes with an underscore. Its just.... Not cool. 

     

    "Presets" is very broad, but yes, this stuff needs some kind of established "order". How this could be done to please everyone I have no idea since there is a lack of stringent hierarchy, so over time as library sizes grow, things get very messy. They need to establish a file tree & hierarchy that prevents having things strewn about in different/multiple locations. HDRIs, morphs, shaders, etc., should have a single location/reference point.

    Regardless of how obscure/uncommon a product might be, it can still be classified, albeit it may need to be more general than an article of clothing or hair. Organic Chemistry nomenclature is probably many times more complex, and there's a handful of individuals that do it for hundreds of thousands $$$ per year, so I think Daz could probably come up with a simpler solution for its products & the PAs to follow.

    Until then, the best thing to do is catalog products in spreadsheets as you buy/use them, and utilize thumbnail images within the spreadsheets. You'll be able to make separate sheets for characters, props, HDRIs, etc. Its a lot of work, but it will be a database that is familiar to you and you won't have any trouble finding stuff.

  • frank0314frank0314 Posts: 14,708

    FSMCDesigns said:

    Jason Galterio said:

    I don't mind Vanity folders...  except for the ones with mispellings and inconsistent placement of spaces, dashes, underscores. etc.

    kinda like the daveyabbo whose characters are installed in 'character" instead of "characters". It's why I no longer purchase their products

    The one that annoys me is Texture and Textures cause that can be detrimental to a pack working or not. What I do is I have an empty Daz Studio folder structure that I use to package all my packs. This way I know the folders are right and spelled accurately with DS structure.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    Light presets belong in the light presets folder. Most pas keep their hdri there, there are a few that do stuff differently or make mistakes but I would say 75 percent are in there. The rest are in render presets,mistyped folders, in props or even in environments, or vanity folders.

    With this particular pa there are at least 6 directories, and some have their own cameras and otherwise the cameras are in camera settings.

    In addition to this there is a jda underscore hdri and jda hdri no underscore.  Then they have at least products.

    Hdris aren't particularly complicated to save out. They don't have a lot of interdependencies, so there isn't a huge reason to completely diverge from even your own file structure each time a product is submitted. This is something Qa needs to catch and standardize.  

     


     

     

  • Noah LGPNoah LGP Posts: 2,617
    edited August 2021

    Honestly compared to Renderosity and the other shops, Daz3D is very standardized.

    What is the point to have 8 ReadMe folders ?

    • Documentation
    • Documents
    • readme
    • ReadMe's
    • Runtime\Documentation
    • Runtime\Read Me
    • Runtime\ReadMe
    • Runtime\Readmes

     

    Post edited by Noah LGP on
  • Sensual ArtSensual Art Posts: 645

    margrave said:

    mrinal said:

    That is the price of freedom. The freedom to choose one's own content structure/taxonomy and the urge to preach it to others.

    Any rigid content structure would eventually become inadequate in addressing overlapping classifications. Stores like Steam have taken their own approach of having a flat top-level hierarchy and relying mostly on tags for deep classifications. And they have successfully implemented this on scale.

    The field of software engineering has already addressed this problem decades ago within the context of multiple developers following their own conventions for folder structures and causing confusion while working in large team environments. Not by establishing standards, but by recommending conventions. A difference that is subtle, but important and can only be effective if implemented properly.

    PA freedom has also cluttered my content hierarchy with duplicate folders like "Web Link"/"Web Links"/"Weblinks" and "Documentation"/"Documents" and blatant misspellings like "vehicels" and "enviornment". Even if PAs exercise their right to organize files how they want, standardizing the spelling is hopefully something we can agree on.

    That itself is proof that the PAs have setup their own bespoke content structure from scratch ignoring any existing conventions. So if the PA choose to ignore the entire conventions from the beginning, then how do you expect them to align with others, let alone reach a common ground with respect to spelling and punctuations? Besides, correct spellings and punctuations probably won't come naturally for any person who is not a native english speaker, who is probably accustomed to spelling the way they learned to pronounce. Also, I don't suppose the content category structure supports any kind of internationalization capabilities that would help bridge the language gap.

    Does Daz's proposed content structure convention provide any benefit (in terms of saved time or effort) for PAs who choose to follow the conventions over rolling out their own, while publishing new content? If not, then it hardly provides any incentive/motivation for the PAs to move out of their existing comfort zone.

  • TaozTaoz Posts: 10,256

    DAZ said recently that they were working on some software to check and correct some of these problems (spelling errors etc. I guess) before publishing the content, so I'd expect to see some improvements in the near future.

  • FP_47429FP_47429 Posts: 117
    After using Poser a long while ago I got use to structuring my own filing system. For the most part I put things where I want them. There is an occasional speed bump but for the most part I like my system better. If they were to standardize it I would probably still move things around.
  • mwasielewski1990mwasielewski1990 Posts: 343

    The absolutely best way to get rid of this probem is to organize content by hand, and break it down into multiple content libraries. It's a lot of work, but you do it once, and your workflow suddenly becomes 1000% faster.

    You just download .zip files for manual download.  Place the /data and /Runtime folders into the root directory of your DAZ content library, and put the rest of the loading scripts according to your needs. For example, I store my characters in ROOT\Characters. After clicking a thousand times through People->Genesis 8 Female->SomerandomPAName->Blahblah... I just got rid of all this, and organized it like i wanted to.

    Yeah, DAZ should sort this out, but if you're doing a big project, custom content sorting is the only way to go anyways.

  • bikdinglebikdingle Posts: 42
    edited August 2021

    FP said:

    After using Poser a long while ago I got use to structuring my own filing system. For the most part I put things where I want them. There is an occasional speed bump but for the most part I like my system better. If they were to standardize it I would probably still move things around.

    I also came from Poser where I had my own structure for runtime. 

    I manually install all my Daz content and I keep a multiple page Excel spreadsheet as a data base so I know what I have and can make notes on individual assets and how well they work.   

    Post edited by bikdingle on
  • Daz_JessicaDaz_Jessica Posts: 155

    Thanks for your ideas, we'll definetly look into it.

  • FenixPhoenixFenixPhoenix Posts: 3,181

    Daz_Jessica said:

    Thanks for your ideas, we'll definetly look into it.

    Thanks for stopping by, Jessica! Here's to hoping we could package products in a "self-contained" manner. Meaning, if a product's biggest attribute are the textures, have the product be filed under "Materials" but if it has shaping presets, have those also stay inside the Materials folder as well. Same with a character that has, for example, horns. Have the horns inside the character folder rather than separated into another folder within "anatomy". That way someone who uses the content library doesn't have to wonder where the other assets of the product ended up being saved into. (This is how I plan to organize my library once I get enough time to re-download and orgnize everything).

  • FP_47429FP_47429 Posts: 117
    edited August 2021
    FenixPhoenix said:

    Daz_Jessica said:

    Thanks for your ideas, we'll definetly look into it.

    Thanks for stopping by, Jessica! Here's to hoping we could package products in a "self-contained" manner. Meaning, if a product's biggest attribute are the textures, have the product be filed under "Materials" but if it has shaping presets, have those also stay inside the Materials folder as well. Same with a character that has, for example, horns. Have the horns inside the character folder rather than separated into another folder within "anatomy". That way someone who uses the content library doesn't have to wonder where the other assets of the product ended up being saved into. (This is how I plan to organize my library once I get enough time to re-download and orgnize everything).

    I mix stuff way to often to keep character specific items with characters. Each person will have to set it up the best way for them. I keep horns in anatomy/horns wings in anatomy/wings ect... If I need the horn morph it's easy just to dial it in. I've reorganized my system a few times till I figured out what worked for me. I'm probably going to re-re-re organize and do skin textures in a separate file.
    Post edited by FP_47429 on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203

    mwasielewski1990 said:

    The absolutely best way to get rid of this probem is to organize content by hand, and break it down into multiple content libraries. It's a lot of work, but you do it once, and your workflow suddenly becomes 1000% faster.

    You just download .zip files for manual download.  Place the /data and /Runtime folders into the root directory of your DAZ content library, and put the rest of the loading scripts according to your needs. For example, I store my characters in ROOT\Characters. After clicking a thousand times through People->Genesis 8 Female->SomerandomPAName->Blahblah... I just got rid of all this, and organized it like i wanted to.

    Yeah, DAZ should sort this out, but if you're doing a big project, custom content sorting is the only way to go anyways.

    While I whole heartedly agree with you on the manual install and organizing content that way, I prefer to keep everything in one content folder. It saves having to search multiple content folders for content, but what works for me, may not work for you and vice versa.

    Being an old Poser user, I learned early on to customize my content folders to make things easier for me. I created a custom setup that works well for me and when I switched over to studio, I was able to adapt my file structure to make a painless transition.

    For an example I break up my clothing folder into multiple categories to make finding items extremely easy. I have folders for dresses, summer outfits, pants, armor, fantasy, swimsuits, super heroines, Sci-Fi and so on. I also created subsets within my shoes folder for boots, heels, flats, and sports.

    I also do the same with poses and prop, is it over kill? Maybe, but it really makes things super easy to find anything I am looking for.

    Will this help people out? I certainly hope so, but if not, at least I have shown that there are options.

  • pjwhoopie4801218pjwhoopie4801218 Posts: 794
    edited August 2021

    Ok.. I share the same lament as the other posters here... and I am right in the middle of a re-organiztion of the customer facing files in daz now.  I have pretty much re-organizied everything I have from V/M4 to just starting GF3.....

    So My question to the "gang" is.... 

    How should DAZ fix it?  What are the suggestions, from the paying customers, of how we would like to see it?  If the Daz Studio folks peek into this thread, we got 3 pages of gripes so far, now lets add some "fixin" to it that maybe they can take back with them to the lab.

    Some of what was mentioned so far was...

    1) LET PAs who do add on work for Product X be able to create a Vanity Folder within the Product X's Main Products Assests
    2) All Documentation, (Read Me's, Tutorials, Instructions, etc should go in One File Folder... Shall we Say "DOCUMENTATION" so henceforth, all newly created assets have their Documentation put in Documentation.  I think the early Poser stuff used "Read Me" or some spelling form of that, but, I say, if it is Documentation, put it in Documentation.

    Personally, I think Most of types of clothing for characters could fit in 3 or 4 main categories... those of you who manage your "own", how do you do it?
    Mine go, depending on Generation
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Historical
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Modern
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Fantasy
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Sci-Fi

    Post edited by pjwhoopie4801218 on
  • shadowhawk1shadowhawk1 Posts: 2,203

    Chumly said:

    Ok.. I share the same lament as the other posters here... and I am right in the middle of a re-organiztion of the customer facing files in daz now.  I have pretty much re-organizied everything I have from V/M4 to just starting GF3.....

    So My question to the "gang" is.... 

    How should DAZ fix it?  What are the suggestions, from the paying customers, of how we would like to see it?  If the Daz Studio folks peek into this thread, we got 3 pages of gripes so far, now lets add some "fixin" to it that maybe they can take back with them to the lab.

    Some of what was mentioned so far was...

    1) LET PAs who do add on work for Product X be able to create a Vanity Folder within the Product X's Main Products Assests
    2) All Documentation, (Read Me's, Tutorials, Instructions, etc should go in One File Folder... Shall we Say "DOCUMENTATION" so henceforth, all newly created assets have their Documentation put in Documentation.  I think the early Poser stuff used "Read Me" or some spelling form of that, but, I say, if it is Documentation, put it in Documentation.

    Personally, I think Most of types of clothing for characters could fit in 3 or 4 main categories... those of you who manage your "own", how do you do it?
    Mine go, depending on Generation
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Historical
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Modern
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Fantasy
    Genesis 8 Female\Clothing\Sci-Fi

    My biggest thing is consistency, some PA’s use vanity folders and some don’t. Make a standard folder structure for PA’s submitting content to follow so that every light set, prop set, or background set all go to the same folder structure. The other suggestion would be to make sure that folders are spelt correctly like Frank mentioned, Textures instead of Texture and Characters instead of character

  • butterflyfishbutterflyfish Posts: 1,482
    edited August 2021

    I would love it if QA could catch spelling errors. I just installed a product that went in "environment" instead of "environments." Why didn't anybody catch that? This is not the only product like this I have. It's just the latest.

    Post edited by butterflyfish on
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