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...I prefer product names/titles that match those in the store pages as I find it much easier to find what I need without depending on a database that can "go south" now and then.. It would make more sense to manually create folders for favourite vendors in the main Library and move everything by those PAs into them (including content that may come from other sources) than having it as the default. Interestingly some of these vanity folders end up in different locations (like for Stonemason, both in the Environments/Architecture and Props folders).
It takes a lot more effort to undo almost two decades of poor content labelling to make it easier to find items. particularly if you still work with older content that uses the Poser structure where stuff is spread all over and much that has "!"s to place it at the top.
Oh and agreed,tighter QA to flag typos and other errors that create duplicate folders like "Prop" instead of "Props" or Envrionments" instead of "Environments".
I just want to be able to continue being able to fully manage and manipulate my libraries through Windows/File Explorer. No matter how "easy" Daz wants to make content management for their users, direct manipulation of the library folders will always be the easiest to me.
...same here as I create my own library/runtime structures to deal with the often poor product labelling.
I shop for the item I want. I do not buy based on the PA's name. In fact, I avoid PA sales! I just don't remember the PA's name.
If I buy a clothing outfit for the Genesis 8 male, I'd like to find it listed under Genesis 8, male, clothing. So much simpler.
..thank you.
...I'm often terrible with names (save for a few of the major ones here) and short term memory issues don't help the matter.
The worst were the products that began with "$" and "!" in the old Poser Runtime as well as MAT files ending up in the "Poses" folder.
The old Runtime format was a mess which is what got me into setting up my own system of content organisation by category and product name (a real pain having to rename a lot of folders). in the Library folder As long as the Textures and Geometry remain in their proper locations there should not be an issue when loading content. The Daz 4.x Library structure throws a couple new locations in the mix which makes full manual installing a bit of a pain.
Some really insightful comments here, great discussion! Hopefully we also have someone from the Dev team watching it :)
Looks like we all have some needs that could all be overlapping or complementary. Let's see. I'll compile something later.
I have favourite PAs and I do take notice of new products from them but I always remove their products from a folder in their name. The fewer clicks the better so clothing has to be in a folder indicating the clothing item. I don't use Smart Content or categories but I do organise my folders by content type, not by vendor.
I have used Smart Content to a large degree since finding Daz in the middle of the G3F/M (2016?) and was lost totally by the Poser file structures and how they disappeared into obscure folders. Studying the forums I learned gradually what was going on and created my own metadata for those old files so I could find them in Smart Content. But there have been issues.
Metadata is created by Daz, not the PAs and I have found that complex shader packs are dumped into a mess in Smart Content and are best used out of 'My DAZ 3D Library' and the structure set by the PAs. Why can't those subfolders be created in Smart Content?
Metadata has in the past year been released with little to no quality control and products end up as upper level items or are received with no metadata at all, or using the old Poser formats. Or characters released that have no association with their generation (even though they appear to be linked).
Standardize where eyebrows are supposed to be assigned. Are they Anatomy or Hair? I have found them in both categories. And under Hair, is it 'Face' or 'Facial'? What is the difference? Or what is the difference between 'Shaders' and the sudden appearence of 'Shader Presets'? Or 'Animals' 'Figures' and 'People'?
I am also someone who has problems with names. There are times I know I want a certain PA's product or a look for something and hit that black wall of nothingness, can't remember the name or anything. So I start the search that may take an hour or more.
My wish for DS5, quality control before release. Establish a standard Daz. I have no idea what yours may be, or if you have one, but I highly recommend a standard be set.
The resulting structure is convenient to use, but getting to that point takes time. And there's always the need to archive the DB in case I need to install DS on a new computer or something goes wrong...
When DS4 got introduced with all the new file formats, I decided to save my time and not to add that content to the DB, but finetune the folder structure of the library itself, given that DS isn't Poser and files, outside the "data" and "textures" folders, are basically free to be moved around.
The default DAZ store folders make very little sense to me. Same as any other tags or filters designed by someone else - this is why I never used "smart content"; it always gets disabled in my installs.
UltraScenery is awesome, but the way JSON ecologies are hardlinking to, say, Andrey Pestryakov files means that I now have to live with Andrey's vanity folder in a context that makes little sense to me (the Pines install to his folder in "Environments" IIRC, not even "Props/Plants").That's why I've created a separate UltraScenery Runtime - everything can be in the necessary place in there, and my main runtime is the way I set it up myself.
Whatever happens in DS5, I'd very much like manual install/organisation to remain a thing.
As I have stated on many other threads, I manually install and I don't use smart content. As for having a folder with a vendor's name and maybe another folder with the items name, possibly one more folder with materials. I prefer this for one very important reason. When I do a render and upload it somewhere, in almost all cases, you're suppose to be crediting the people of the products you use. In some cases this is for legal reasons, in other cases it promotes the vendors, most contests require this as well. However, I have been noticing lately that most are not giving credit. How many threads are in the forums asking what product is used and where to get it, because the vendor did not put that information on their product page. How much harder would it be to follow these rules if these vanity folders were not used. Giving how much content people have in their libraries, and in many cases multiple libraries, sorted according to item name and no idea who created, not having such folders actually creates a problem.
I also like creating runtimes/MyLibraries based on themes, such as environments, characters, clothes, holidays...etc. I find this type of organization more to my liking, as it's easier to find things for a scene and with the vendor names on folders, I know who made it so I can comply with the rules of a site.
I have no problem with the current folder system and the ability to have external runtimes/MyLibraries. However, I do believe there should be a standard system for naming not only folders, but also the item itself to be much more co ordinated. Really getting tired of the duplicate file error popping up after all this time. I have never had to open a file in an editor and, quite honestly, I shouldn't have to and vendors need to pay more attention to naming and placement for things to install and thus load correctly. A system that rejects badly named items or folder setups means I can't use the item and I don't like that idea.
If I am misunderstanding something in what I said, then please inform me. I'm tired and have a headache so might have missed something
I seem to be in the minority here as I'd rather have more "vanity" folders
I'm far more likely to remember "that one shirt by mada I really like" or "that aprilysh hair with the braids" than ever actually remember the name of the individual product
(I actually use the daz store to search for items I own pretty frequently, precisely because I can search by vendor)
I also just personally prefer more nested/hierarchal systems to long lists in general, I can see the benefit of sorting into themes styles, etc, rather than vendor, but am not a fan of a long list of every clothing item I have for g8
My peeve is definitely how things seem divvied up pretty randomly between props and environments (also the stray environment folder I have)
actually I checked and I have an architecture folder, an environments>architecture folder and environment>architecture folder, and a props>architecture folder
I should consider organizing my content library
Any time I get a series of items that are named like you described, I start renaming folders. Inside the props folder is an architecture folder and and envrionment folder, so that is where I put all such items. To me all outdoor it's such as road, forests, tree's ... etc are environment. Buildings and streets are the only thing I have in architecture.
Since my new computer (which I finally got back again and now it's wifi won't work...lol) has an SSD of less then 400 gigs used for C Drive, so I have no intention of installing content there, only programs and anything that absolutely must be with the programs on C Drive. I also have a 2T HHD installed and that is where all my 3D items will be installed in the appropriate runtimes/MyLibraries. Once I get this wifi thing sorted out and can install Daz, I will be starting a thread to ask about what has to be with Daz on C and what can go in the externals on D, since I don't want to have something like scripts and shaders not working. I already know I can install the characters and clothes, props and environmenets, as well as 3rd party items, can be put into those externals on the D Drive. Also the hard drives from this old computer I'm stuck on at the moment will be converted to literal external drives that can be plug and play, so I can take them with me if I need to.
One thing I have been adament about with regards to folders and files, I name the folders according to what I want and put them where I want.
If I were to throw my hat in, I'd like two features.....a lot more, but let's start with two simple ones.....
The Ability to SEARCH for somethiing. If Daz Studio can't find something, it gives up and asks about searching...I'd love if I could send Daz Studio to SEARCH for whatever it can't find....I'd even settle for some options....like, let it search a particular drive for stuff....
"Would you like Daz to search this drive for X- for choose folder?" Or maybe an autoSEARCH that can noodle around all those directories ....like the texture is one folder down or up and I have to relink EVERYTHING..one item at a time..
And...and.....
The Ability to EASILY mark an item as a favorite or even have a ranking (number 1-20 lolz) and sort (Smart Content) by the usual suspects.....most used products....recently used products.....
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Searching from the folder where you are and it's subfolders instead of search going through everything you have installed,
Ability to move user facing files and folders within the DS folder tree with DS updating the metadata accordingly
ahhhh... my people! I am home.
I too share these struggles!
I have had to resort to a DIM repacker so that I can make sense of the folder structure. I live by custom categories, but often the PA's seem to aggressively work against me by naming their Character asset !Actor, XYZ Jane Doe, or some other nonesnes, but the folder, where everything else I need for that character is nested under a vanity folder and named "Jane".
I will second the call for PAs to be consistent across the entire instance of their asset. Potential problems could be cut off at the pass regarding dupicate asset IDs, if instead of Amy_eyelids* they used Amy-MR_eylids or whatever other PA suffix they wanted to put on. Yes, it might be a bit extra hassle up front but it would prevent customer frustration and returned products and all the negative press generated about their products on forums.
I'm kinda curious about how QA operates as Daz anyway, is somebody "dedicated" to it, or is it an "additional duty"? If the web marketeer also has to do QA, I think we've found the problem.
Methinks it would be a good opportunity to reach out, extend olive branch to RH RO RE etc etc and say, "With Daz5.0 we are going to be restructuring our requirements for File Organization with PAs, if you could make sure your assets meet this criteria, it will be beneficial to all users. A rising tide does lift all boats.
A more "science fiction" feature I'd like to have (but it's really far-fetched): an AI assistant that would scan the content, recognise the objects and support something like this - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0898122108005701 - so that we could search, for example, for a "dainty cup" or a "holy chalice" and get meaningful matches from our libraries.
Though when even the store search is what it is... that's just a pipe dream, eh.
I've been kitbashing and started creating fit morphs, since I tend to use items for one model on another. Recently I got an old Aery Soul outtit for V3 to fit G2F, then saved it for future use. I would not want that to end up in a G2F section, as per Smart Content. In a case like this, my search would be for the outfit, not the model, so that fit would be in the folder for that outfit, under V3. If it was kept in a G2 folder, I then have to search through all G2 items to find it...hair, clothes, characters, materials, props.
If I were to make one request for the file and folder system, I would like things alphabetized. When I installed the items into the MyLibraries and look in those folders, they are indeed alphabetized, open daz and start searching content, nothing is alphabetized and makes finding things that much harder.
I'm with you. I've been advocating for vendor search in DS and DIM for a long time now. Both would be super useful. I also would like more nesting. I like vanity folders cause like you I have to search my orders to find something in particular cause I don't know the name of it. I use to do custom categories and had folders for every vender I shopped with and had folders within to separate items according to category. I am OCD about organization. My wife laughs at me all the time because I have spreadsheets for everything in my life. If you'd look at some of my older packs you'd see the OCD with the separating the products within the pack. They would have the prop, and all the presets. I know I tried to listen the people who didn't like the vanity folders and I got rid of them temporarily and it was a relentless amount of anger because I usually include so many props in packs, it got confusing to people and demanded that I go back to the folders, so I did, until Daz put a stop to vanity folders on all Daz Originals.
One of the reasons I use manual installation only, is that when I'm installing the content and after I have extracted the runtime and data, I can place the user facing files where I think they should be. Often correcting Environment/Props/Scenes type of misplacements and removing the vanity folders.
When the number of subfolders under say... Clothing, starts getting too big to be browsed with the up/down arrow, I create subfolders to gather similar items like Historical, Everyday, Lingerie etc. under the same subfolder, since when I'm looking for a clothing, I know what purpose I'm going to use it for. Within those subfolders the number of items has again been reduced to something you can easily browse through with the up/down arrows.
I already mentioned having difficulties finding material options for characters when the creator has used a vanity folder to store them. In my case the same problem exists with the hair, as I always copy the hair into base folder \Hair\ as well, so that I can see all the installed hairs at the same time (ok the ones that fit the full screen at the same time), but if the name of the hair doesn't match the name of the folder where the materials can be found, that again makes it hard to find them.
Another thing I have seen from vendors, both paid and free items, clothes are in a folder called wearables and ends up creating another section in the folders, when the clothes should be under clothes.
As for materials, mine are G8F/Hair/Vendor/the item in question has no folder/Material with the name of the hair to identify what hair they are for, particularly if I have more then one hair from that vendor.
I don't have a huge amount of content but even the base install Daz folder is a mess. I prefer to organise things into my own structure in a separate library. The /data directories, with textures, morphs and so forth are in the Daz library but the user-facing stuff is in Library, organised by me (I literally make the folders and copy content in), as below. After the first pass if like me you don't buy very often, it's easy to maintain. Vanity folders and icons get nuked. I even run Advanced Renamer (file renamer) to make sure everything has the same case. After many hours of wasted time as a software dev over the years I have found a messy file system really triggering. As below, for example, the props folder is broken out into furniture, vegetation, etc. Though I imagine some people here with hundreds or thousands of items would struggle with the initial setup (there's no way to automate it is there).
I don't think it matters what folder structure Daz itself goes with, as long as it's consistent and enforced. Unfortunately even if Daz does this some other places still won't, so I don't think it gets you all that far.
These are the 3 folder structures in use. We can decide which are Folder_1, Folder_2 and Folder_3.
We cannot change anything that is in red from its position with respect to Folder_x, nor can we change its name.
We can add Producto_x folders and rename them in the DAZ and Poser structures.
We cannot add Producto_x folders and rename them in DAZ Connect structures.
DAZ Connect structures keep products separated for easy updating.
The ideal situation would be to have a structure like DAZ Connect but we can add the Product_x we want and change their names. So nothing would be lost by mixing with another thousand products mislabeled or labeled with rules that are not useful to us. So whoever wants to have vanity folders will have vanity folders and whoever does not want to be tortured by these can send them to oblivion.
I have tried to mimic the DAZ Connect structure, but adding folders is cumbersome, boring, lousy to track, and puts effort into the system (although the DAZ Connect structure demonstarte that it could be programmed in a way that was efficient for the system). The DAZ Connect structure would be good if it not to support only objects from DAZ store. Connect is good for the updates, but it sucks too: in each update it destroys the groups formed, and if there is an oversight, also metadata.
The Environments vs Props is my big pet peeve as well. There's so much crossover between the two. I ended up just putting nearly everything into Props. Now at least when I go into Props>SciFi everything appropriate is all in one spot and I'm not hunting back and forth.
...I use a header folder named "converted" for items like that than put such things as clothing, hair, poses etc as categories within
I do separate most things out into where I feel they should go, but I feel your pain ;-)
In an ideal world, there would be a standard folder structure that accommodates both DAZ and products from other shops, while keeping the option to manually install and create personal folder structures.
Thanks for this... it was very helpful
If I am reading it right, what you guys are saying is that I can make changes in Windows Explorer to Anything NOT in Runtime or Data folders?
One ot the things that started my journey into madness was discovering the "Products" folder (I think it is between the Daz Library and Categories.
Once there, it is a file folder alphabetical listing of all the products installed.
Q Is this only used for Smart Content?
From that Products folder, if you go to the "L" sub-folder and then scroll down to "Local User", basically, you find a catch all for every file that
1) was loaded into a viewport but NOT brought into Daz by DIM. So if you just dropped an Asset you aquired through Renderocity into My Daz Library, it will show up here... right?
And,
2) Anything that you loaded through DIM, but then moved/renamded its holding folder It's bond with DIM (Meta Data) is kind of broken so if you load the asset into the view port, it will show up in this local User Folder.
A bit long winded, but I am guessing that the only time this would matter, is if I use Smart Content. If I don't use Smart Content, but use a Combination of Content Library and Custom Catorgories, whatever happens with "Products" folder doesnt reall matter?
My OCD has caused me to try to make sense of the Products Folder, even though I don't use Smart Content. For each item/asset group in the Local User folder under Products that didn't have "a home" (and at one point, I had tens of thousands) I deleted it from categories, then went into Content Library and used the ol Create Conent From option and gave it a name which then seem to put it in its proper place in the Product folder.
But if somebody can confirm that, by not using Smart Content, I don't need to worry about the Porducts Folder at all... then I will get to work on cleaning up the Content Library and Merge all the
Genisis 8 Female
Gennesis 8 Female
Genesis 8 Female
Genesis 8 Females
Genesis 8 Femles
Genesis 8 Famles
Into the Proper "Genesis 8 Female" Folder and not look back.