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Daz 3D Forums > General > Non-Fungible Token (NFT) Art

NFT and the Future of Digital Content

«1…37383940414243…53»

Comments

  • PerttiAPerttiA Posts: 10,024
    April 2021

    ArkadySkies said:

    Karuki said:

    So far I have that there needs to be a platform that;

    1. Cuts the environmental impact minting and trading NFTs has by 99%.
    2. Allows artists to be verified and authorship of artwork to be confirmed. Combat plagiarism.
    3. Works to make NFTs accessible to all artists, including the impact they have on inflating graphics hardware.
    4. Is more that just a token with a link attached to it. Risk of losing link if platform closes. Art should be able to be easily viewed and appreciated.

    If those points were solved, could NFTs be empowering for artists and a way to really create value with digital art?

    Even if they did that, email receipts on gumroad and every other online marketplace already exist and serve the exact same purpose as NFTs, they're just not culturally hyped for being shiny new tech. Every platform that allows artists to sell digital content solves almost all of these issues, with the only downside of usually not permitting resale, so they're of no value for rich people wanting to engage in speculative trading, but it's not like they don't have plenty of other, more reliable opportunities to gamble with their capital. Hoping that a short animation of for example Shudu or Aiko will accrue value and be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars in a few years would be a bit silly, especially if people keep flooding the marketplace with new NFTs (Daz is now trying to sell their Aiko NFT for less than $70. They own 100 of them, so rarity won't drive up their value. Oops.).

    If rich people want to feel special paying a lot of money for digital art, they could always commission artists for more money. Just because a tech is new and sounds cool, doesn't mean it's worth using or has any value, or that continuing to try retroactively find a use for the tech is a worthwhile endeavor. NFTs are the equivalent of over-engineering the wheel, then trying to find a way to retroactively find a use for it because lots of people think the new wheels sound cooler than regular wheels even if their performance is inferior and they love the idea of shaking up established the wheel market for the sake of shaking up the market.

    Especially when the new wheel doesn't even work as a wheel. 

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    Daz_Jessica said:

    Hey forumites!

    We can tell there are lots of parts of the conversation around NFTs for digital artists that are important to you. And we acknowledge that there are valid concerns and plenty of unknowns yet to explore, some of which you've highlighted.  As with most sufficiently big advances in technology, there's a lot to test and learn, and no doubt plenty to improve! We're committed to being part of the solution, innovating responsibly, and we appreciate your input and feedback along the way.

    I just love corporate speak. I used to hear so much of it when I was a supervisior. Even spoke some. It's hot air. 

    Translation: we're going to do what we want, regardless of how the rest of you think. We want to see if we can make gobs of money off of it first before we throw in the towel. In the meantime we'll continue to placate all of you into thinking we're listening.

    Placation arrived! Season Pass!! 

    Post edited by AllenArt on April 2021
  • Jason GalterioJason Galterio Posts: 2,562
    April 2021

    Daz_Jessica said:

    Hey forumites!

    We can tell there are lots of parts of the conversation around NFTs for digital artists that are important to you. And we acknowledge that there are valid concerns and plenty of unknowns yet to explore, some of which you've highlighted.  As with most sufficiently big advances in technology, there's a lot to test and learn, and no doubt plenty to improve! We're committed to being part of the solution, innovating responsibly, and we appreciate your input and feedback along the way.

    Go on Amazon or New Egg and try to buy a video card. Then you'd understand just how bad a situation this is.

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,242
    April 2021

    Hahahaha! Look: We're "forumites." No Daz Jessica. We're not "forumites." We're customers. Do you understand the difference? Plus, adding "-ite"on anything like that is a diminutive, pejorative way to address us. This is not getting better, no. I think we're sort of being given the middle finger here.

  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 904
    April 2021

     

    Placation arrived! Season Pass!! 

    I don't think it is placation, it's a service/product launch. Not sure if they thought the timing through with everyting that's going on. 

  • Mark_e593e0a5Mark_e593e0a5 Posts: 1,601
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    BlueFingers said:

     

    Placation arrived! Season Pass!! 

    I don't think it is placation, it's a service/product launch. Not sure if they thought the timing through with everyting that's going on. 

    I think it is horrible timing. A season pass is, basically, a loyality program. First anoying (to avoid stronger wording, the moderators had way too much to do the last few days) your customer base, spreading distrust in the company (plus adding a few cans of gas to have a nice wildfire). And then come up with such a program... 

    Post edited by Mark_e593e0a5 on April 2021
  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 904
    April 2021

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    BlueFingers said:

     

    Placation arrived! Season Pass!! 

    I don't think it is placation, it's a service/product launch. Not sure if they thought the timing through with everyting that's going on. 

    I think it is horrible timing. A season pass is, basically, a loyality program. First anoying (to avoid stronger wording, the moderators had way too much to do the last few days) your customer base, spreading distrust in the company (plus adding a few cans of gas to have a nice wildfire). And then come up with such a program... 

    Oh man, I'm kind of dumbstruck. 

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344
    April 2021

    Another "pig in a poke"... devil

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,242
    April 2021

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    BlueFingers said:

     

    Placation arrived! Season Pass!! 

    I don't think it is placation, it's a service/product launch. Not sure if they thought the timing through with everyting that's going on. 

    I think it is horrible timing. A season pass is, basically, a loyality program. First anoying (to avoid stronger wording, the moderators had way too much to do the last few days) your customer base, spreading distrust in the company (plus adding a few cans of gas to have a nice wildfire). And then come up with such a program... 

    We can't actually say the customer base is annoyed. Some of us are annoyed. That's true. Others, I'm not sure they care. And we have no way of gauging that. It could be this season pass program will go crazy for them. Or it could fizzle. We might get an idea by the number of special badges we see, at least among people who post in the forums. But it will be hard to say anything beyond that. 

  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 904
    April 2021

    I really, really do not want to be cynical, but it's getting really hard not to be. My first thought was, "Great, something else I can put my money that isn't working as it should". *Sigh*

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,242
    April 2021

    BlueFingers said:

    I really, really do not want to be cynical, but it's getting really hard not to be. My first thought was, "Great, something else I can put my money that isn't working as it should". *Sigh*

    First and foremost, price is a rationing device. This is a good bit more than even undiscounted $75/yr for Platinum Club. It remains to be seen what happens with that, too. I wouldn't be surprised to see a price hike.

  • Kaleb242Kaleb242 Posts: 344
    April 2021

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around what's going on with these new forms of promotions:

    • NFTs with "unlockable content" that is completely unclear what you're actually getting for hundreds of dollars...
    • A Platinum Season Pass which is also completely unclear what you're actually getting for hundreds of more dollars...
      ...now with a built-in sense of urgency to buy now before it goes up in price — and non-refundable.

    Is DAZ + TAFI trying to raise more cash quickly for something urgently needed? Is there some kind of crisis we should be aware of?

    Blink twice if you need help!

  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 904
    April 2021

    Kaleb242 said:

    I'm still trying to wrap my head around what's going on with these new forms of promotions:

    • NFTs with "unlockable content" that is completely unclear what you're actually getting for hundreds of dollars...
    • A Platinum Season Pass which is also completely unclear what you're actually getting for hundreds of more dollars...
      ...now with a built-in sense of urgency to buy now before it goes up in price — and non-refundable.

    Is DAZ + TAFI trying to raise more cash quickly for something urgently needed? Is there some kind of crisis we should be aware of?

    Blink twice if you need help!

    Yes, I think they need help. 

  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    Daz_Jessica said:

    Hey forumites!

    We can tell there are lots of parts of the conversation around NFTs for digital artists that are important to you. And we acknowledge that there are valid concerns and plenty of unknowns yet to explore, some of which you've highlighted.  As with most sufficiently big advances in technology, there's a lot to test and learn, and no doubt plenty to improve! We're committed to being part of the solution, innovating responsibly, and we appreciate your input and feedback along the way.

    NFTs are not "sufficiently big advances in technology." Just because tech is new, doesn't mean it is a useful, an advacement, or worthwhile to invest in. We've explained what NFTs are and why they are harmful and useless with numerous facts, analogies, and sources, so please encourage your bosses to read the posts in this thread and give you something more useful than generic marketing speak if they want you to defuse the situation (otherwise, they're asking the impossible of you). It's clear corporate bought into the hype without understanding either the tech or your client base.

    What are we as Daz users looking for 3D content to use in our renders supposed to do with a fancy, $100+ link to a video of Shudu moving her head that may disappear any day? Why would we want it? NFT speculative trading is a rich man's game. Do your analytics genuinely suggest that many Daz users have the wealth and desire to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a fancy link to little animations of Aiko and Shudu? Based on the outrage and lack of NFT sales, crypto bros don't make up a significant portion of your user base. Daz can't fix this by asking moderators/representatives to assure us they're listening and want to be "part of the solution" while still defending NFTs as a "sufficiently big advance in technology" since online market places already do e-mail receipts and links to downloads. You guys have had them for years.

    Post edited by ArkadySkies on April 2021
  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206
    April 2021

    Subtropic Pixel said:

    Oh, and maybe assigning some developers to your neglected software properties.  The state of Bryce and Hex are shameful.

    I was kind of under the impression that Bryce and Hexagon have been completely abandoned. Isn't that why Hexagon is free now, because it isn't worth selling? I don't mean that in a rude way, it's just very out dated, and Blender is so easy to learn these days improving Hexagon wouldn't be worthwhile, I think. I did have fun with Bryce though.

  • SeraSera Posts: 1,675
    April 2021

    From what I understand, Daz has always been eccentric. I don't see that changing anytime soon. 

  • BlueFingersBlueFingers Posts: 904
    April 2021

    Sevrin said:

    Daz also received a grant from Epic Games, and has benefitted from the pandemic keeping people at home and looking for stuff to do. 

    I don't think they're likely to be in terrible shape financially.  Maybe [SPECULATION!!] they're just bored with the business.

    I agree, I think the pandemic has been fantastic for Daz. I started because it's something to do while being in lockdown, I can't be the only one. But the investor bit worries me, a lot of investors are real sharks.

  • Mark_e593e0a5Mark_e593e0a5 Posts: 1,601
    April 2021

    Ippotamus said:

    All the latest and greatest money schemes in one convenient place:  DAZ 3D

    Personally, I can't wait for the season 3 loot boxes!

    although the Adobe-clone monthly subscription is a close second.

    Phew, all these new ideas are making my head spin!

    Let's make some money... err... art!

    What do you expect when quite some part of the management board has no stake in art? It is business. Just like that. Like Dairy farming. Gettiing the most of milk with the least of mooh.  

  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206
    April 2021

    I completely missed the season pass announcement since I've unsubscribed from the Daz emails due to NFTs and haven't done more than glance at other parts of the site the out of morbid curiousity to see if they're still pushing NFTs (yes, but it's no longer every other segment on the homepage, just one full screen ad) and check if they're going to try slashing prices to pull some of us out of our boycott without giving up on promoting NFTs (doesn't look like it, won't work on me anyway, but it would boost my confidence they're going to give up on NFTs).

    And it doesn't look remotely appealing anyway. They already have a premium subscription: Platinum Club. This just looks like they want to entice platinum club members to spend to buy a premium premium subscription.

  • RobotHeadArtRobotHeadArt Posts: 917
    April 2021
    They just transferred some of the Champion NFTs to the garbage can.
  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    Champion is supposed to care about the environment or whatever, so NFTs might have hurt their image. Plus it doesn't seem like the Daz customer base has much interest in buying NFTs. Some companies recognize when they've pissed off their customers faster than others.

    Post edited by ArkadySkies on April 2021
  • Mark_e593e0a5Mark_e593e0a5 Posts: 1,601
    April 2021

    ArkadySkies said:

    Champion is supposed to care about the environment or whatever, so NFTs might have hurt their image. Plus it doesn't seem like the Daz customer base has much interest in buying NFTs. Some companies recognize when they've pissed off their customers faster than others.

     Indeed. I have asked HanesBrands, the owner of Champion, what they think about the NFT's with Champion. And the sustainability department will have a talk with their marketing guys. They were, let's say, not amused. HanesBrands have high awareness on sustainability, having their own sustainability department, and seem to be really caring for the planet. From the reply I got, the sustainability department seems to be quite shocked.

  • murgatroyd314murgatroyd314 Posts: 1,567
    April 2021

    Daz_Jessica said:

    As with most sufficiently big advances in technology, there's a lot to test and learn, and no doubt plenty to improve! 

    One of the things to learn is how to distinguish between actual big advances and overhyped useless gimmicks. 

  • AnotherUserNameAnotherUserName Posts: 2,727
    April 2021

    Thank you for being Loyal "forumites".

    angry

  • Pax AsteriaePax Asteriae Posts: 456
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    ArkadySkies said:

    Subtropic Pixel said:

    Oh, and maybe assigning some developers to your neglected software properties.  The state of Bryce and Hex are shameful.

    I was kind of under the impression that Bryce and Hexagon have been completely abandoned. Isn't that why Hexagon is free now, because it isn't worth selling? I don't mean that in a rude way, it's just very out dated, and Blender is so easy to learn these days improving Hexagon wouldn't be worthwhile, I think. I did have fun with Bryce though.

    I had to explain to a friend that the reason her Hex file wasn't saving was because she was on the 'wrong' polygon while clicking Save, and that if she clicked on a different one then it'd work fine.  Which one is the wrong polygon?  Basically, whichever one doesn't work when you click Save. *shrug*

     

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    ArkadySkies said:

    Champion is supposed to care about the environment or whatever, so NFTs might have hurt their image. Plus it doesn't seem like the Daz customer base has much interest in buying NFTs. Some companies recognize when they've pissed off their customers faster than others.

     Indeed. I have asked HanesBrands, the owner of Champion, what they think about the NFT's with Champion. And the sustainability department will have a talk with their marketing guys. They were, let's say, not amused. HanesBrands have high awareness on sustainability, having their own sustainability department, and seem to be really caring for the planet. From the reply I got, the sustainability department seems to be quite shocked.

    TBF, if this comes as a surprise to their sustainability department, their sustainability department needs to be asked why they aren't looking at what their brands are doing in the first place.

    Sorry if my quote tweets have gone weird, it's apparently impossible to funtionally quote more than one person at once.  I will restrain myself from further comment on that front.  Countdown in three... two...

    Post edited by Pax Asteriae on April 2021
  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    ArkadySkies said:

    Champion is supposed to care about the environment or whatever, so NFTs might have hurt their image. Plus it doesn't seem like the Daz customer base has much interest in buying NFTs. Some companies recognize when they've pissed off their customers faster than others.

     Indeed. I have asked HanesBrands, the owner of Champion, what they think about the NFT's with Champion. And the sustainability department will have a talk with their marketing guys. They were, let's say, not amused. HanesBrands have high awareness on sustainability, having their own sustainability department, and seem to be really caring for the planet. From the reply I got, the sustainability department seems to be quite shocked.

    I'm impressed. From what Diigitals has said, it doesn't sound like anyone involved bothered to research this "sufficiently big advance in technology" much before jumping on the bandwagon:

    The Diigitals said:

     I just want to say that going into this project everyone on board was super excited to be exploring NFTs and I truly think everyone on board believed that this was about showcasing how digital artists can monetise and sell their work.

    Obviously though I should've poked around more and did more research, although reading about crypto makes my head want to explode lol

    He also expressed shock at every single shortcoming of NFTs that's common knowledge, and seemed to understand why they might be a problem for us, so honestly I don't think anyone in the project had much of clue about NFTs beyond the hype and didn't bother to research them at all. Certainly doesn't look like they discussed any potential pitfalls of the tech or whether they were targeting the right audience. I know Diigitals doesn't speak for Daz, but he's also the only one associated with Daz willing to talk to us with any meaningful information (and I respect that).

    Post edited by ArkadySkies on April 2021
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,048
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    AllenArt said:

    That makes it easy for me then. ...

    Laurie 

     I'm liking your new avatar.

    Post edited by FirstBastion on April 2021
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 8,048
    April 2021

    There is a fundamental requirement to running a successful business,  knowing when to cut your losses and not throw good money after bad.

  • AllenArtAllenArt Posts: 7,175
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    FirstBastion said:

    AllenArt said:

    That makes it easy for me then. ...

    Laurie 

     I'm liking your new avatar.

    On hindsight, I should have put "Wallet closed until further notice." LOL 

    Post edited by AllenArt on April 2021
  • ArkadySkiesArkadySkies Posts: 206
    April 2021 edited April 2021

    Mark_e593e0a5 said:

    deepswing said:

    I have read all the 7 (!) pages of comments now, but to be honest, I still don't get how this works. Now, let's assume I would be the customer, and I click on the link Daz provided where I can buy "something". I just learned that I get a link to a copy of a file (which might disappear at some point of time), but I still have this NFT, a long number. But - what do I do with it? Do I keep it and sell it somewhere to a higher price at some point of time? How does that work? And what is it I am actually selling here? Is this a kind of stock exchange Daz is entering now??

    Its a bit like selling a square meter of real estate on the moon. You don't have it, you cannot visit it (right now). All you have is a piece of paper from some more-or-(most lilkely)less trustworthy organization that tells you "Congrats, you own a square meter on the moon." 

    And anyone else can have their own piece of paper that gives them ownership over the same square meter of the moon, and new ones can continue to be printed up by anyone. But as long as the paper itself is unique, that is supposed to be enough.

    Post edited by ArkadySkies on April 2021
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