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@Sade : I don't criticize the quality of your work. I just said it's not what the title says. And I know from experience that many artists working on book covers really haven't the slightest idea how medieval clothing really looked. But - and that is critical - several readers do have. So this is just a warning to my fellow book cover artists to do their homework.
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I know, it looks a lot like that stuff you see at pseudo-medieval festivals. And it looks nice.
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So, if you really wish to do medieval renders, this is not your choice dress. Anything else, fantasy, whatever, it's fine.
@Cherpenbeck: It"s clearly not historical accurate, i think NOBODY think it is. It's does not need any deep research in medieval stuffs for knowing it, this is why i felt its unfair.
I dont know who named is (perhaps the modeller, Ravenhair, but its just my tip), its just a narrow.. however modellers oftern terrible bad in name giving (just look my non-daz stuffs, lol).
(sorry if i was a bit "mother-tiger", some days i just do (im female-elemental, definiately have several days, when im overreact) (also enough old and wise for saying sorry, and putting out warning signs XD)
(but frankly, i think the title will not mislead nobody... i think?)
Well, the "Ye Olde Man & Scythe" was established in 1251... or how about "Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem" (1189) but for really old... "The Old Ferry Boat Inn" (pictured below) Claims to have been established in 560! That is pretty freakin old... check out the thatched roof!
I lived in East Anglia for a few years, and one thing that I thought was funny, was there would often be an 600 year old church, but next to it would be a 601 year old Pub. I don't know if its true, but I was told that the stone masons/building guilds would build a pub first, so they'd have a place to drink while working on the church.
Nah, it's OK, please, don't apologize any more, you did a great job on the outfit. Using that naming logic, most of the products available under "Historical" genre tag would require such a thread full of apologies. Maybe a whole section of the forums for the PA's to apologize for every single product they make and it does not perfectly match every single word in the name?
I take all the names as a mere hint to what theme to expect anyway.
The outfit looks very nice and as mentioned earlier in the thread, I am most happy about the shoes not having high heels. Yay!
Though I'd love to see more "realistically-inclined" medieval/middle ages stuff, I tend to kitbash together what I can. I think my biggest pain point (at the moment) are sleeves. I'd love to see more stitched sleeves at the shoulder rather than the smooth t-shirt/tube looking sleeves we have on a lot of stuff. More stitching everywhere, really.
Sade I bought the outfit and the textures, and I love them. Speaking for myself, I don't always look for historical accuracy. Many times I buy things because they look good.
I'm guessing, based on my German brother-in-law's lectures when we'd visit the old monastaries in southern Germany invariably they made beer and other types of alcoholic drinks. They had to drink safe water before they could build the really nice churches so what you noticed in East Anglia is probably right but those pubs were probably built as part of the church's activities for public health and safety (no diseases from dirty water) rather than the church showing up because of a pub being there.
That definitely settles it, can't be medieval.
The description states it to be peasant-style; this gives it a pretty broad spectrum to draw from, and is far fancier than many peasants had.
It seems like a reasonable attempt at getting something that would fit into fantasy theme that is based on medieval - other than that it would need creating for any given part of the world.
I love historical costumes and in fact this outfit with it's wonderful textures reminds me more of Baroque fashion. Add some hip pads to the outfit and you have a saucy tavern maid from the late Elizabethan age (1590- 1605) right up through to the mid Rococo age (mid 1750's). The shoes on the other hand would only work for late Elizabethan.
I think alot of people would be quite surprised at what our ancestors wore. It wasn't all grays, blacks and browns, even for the lower classes.
@Sade I really love the textures you created for this outfit.
I don't think anyone here is saying they don't like the outfit. Just that the name doesn't match the item. I did buy the item and look forward to working with it.
Teeth probably weren't as bad as some might think, since there was no soda and no proliferation of sugary snacks that everyuone consumes all the freakin time,
9 out of 10 supposedly accurate books depicting medieval knights in armor show the armor in metallic grey, even though armor was very commonly dyed as a cheap and convenient means to protect it against rust. Bare metal for armor only became vogue in the 18th century, when outdated and obsolete armor pieces were put on display indoors and scrubbing off the layers of paint became the simpler means to keep them shiny.
Gladly, for all these cases of "inaccuracy" we can kitbash and re-texture. There's plenty asset and shader products to pick from. Otherwise, we can always model things ourselves or commission a designer to do so for us.
tl/dr: I get so tired of people whining about historical or realistic accuracy of of-the-shelf products.
Or in some cases only uneducated (as in: not really knowing that the title chosen for their work is utterly wrong) historicallywise... as medieval faires in the US (used as an example, as I've seen tons of pictures of these) show compared most of these medieval festivals in europe (of some I was a part of). It's probably just easier to get really historically inspiration over here, by just going into a museum.
probably not, but it might keep a certain kind of possible customers from really buying these falsely named items.
For me this neglectance of historical facts is a sign for the PA not putting enough care into the design of it's product, which often really think twice - or thrice or fourth - before (or usually not) buying it.
So giving something a name with "Medieval" or "Viking" in it often makes me not buy stuff that would have passed as acceptable with a less specific - and wrong - name.... but that's me, and I'm only a special snowflake...
dress, another dress, a long dress, a dress with puffy sleves ...
It would have been enough to add the word "fantasy" to the name. Or even better, to replace medieval with fantasy. As for a pure fantasy item, it works well.
I bought both items, even recognizing the issues with them right off. My thoughts were Halloween costumes for children (maybe with a long-sleeve tee-shirt?), or young adults; a modern spoof barmaid outfit at a park that has no relationship with reality (think Disney); or possibly a far-future world where a culture has developed that has a similiar, but not exact from to Earth's ethnic cultures due to colonization.
I have dyed fabric and studied organic dyes that were available and understand the difference of what we see today and what was available in the past.
Personally, I would welcome highly accurate historical clothing for men and women and children, including the darker, dingy fabric. Why else do I buy shaders to dirty things up?
Also, one point to remember, fabric was valuable. Clothing was passed on, worn over generations, made over routinely.
Consider that there is a new rage for 'antique' clothing again. I remember my younger sister raiding used clothing stores for outfits from the 30s and 40s to mix into her outfits during the 70s/80s. (She was annoyed our mother's dusty pink wool wedding suit was too small for her to wear.)
I don't feel there was any 'whining' involved. OP just pointed out in what I thought was a very polite and friendly fashion that the naming is unaccurate, which it is. Fair enough I should think. It's a very pretty dress but it's not 'medieval' in any way, and so simply should have been given some other name. You wouldn't make a leopard and call it a tiger just because you figured a tiger sounds more exciting, based on the assumption that 'people know anyway DAZ's models are not that accurate' - would you? A rose is a rose is rose and all that. And look, not all buyers here have the means to just have someone do bespoke models for them.
Apart from that, discussions like this almost always come with really interesting new facts in my experience, so I absolutely enjoy following them. I didn't know about the armor being painted for example, how fascinating is that? Makes a lot of sense as well. Thanks for letting us know!
... Sorry about the typos above, the iPad doesn't let me back into the post to edit ...
The name dForce Medieval Barmaid is highly misleading. They didn't have dForce back in medieval times.
It's probably more realistic than the high-heeled sets of armour that leave large areas uncovered, or the high-heeled space suits but they look good in renders. And someone in a record shop once told me that the music sung by the Medieaval Baebes isn't authentic medieval style either but I like listenting to it.
Like most people my idea of medieval comes from films and TV and they proboably don't want to show how drab the reality was.
This is my favorite response
Nothing can suck the fun out of anything quite like people on the internet.
Is ANYONE actually writing a story set in medieval times that doesn't include at least a tiny bit of fantasy? Maybe there are some, but I sure can't think of any offhand...nor would I be very likely to want to read or watch one. ;)
Depends on the people.
The saxons (so basically pre 1066 (which is often considered pre medieval)) are all supposed to have good teeth in dug up bodies. Later on not so much. Ridiculous quantities of sugar were consumed at banquets by the late Tudor period. Sugar was a fancy delicacy, so your royal/higher up people would have been munching on the stuff fairly often (it was also rumored to be considered a way of cleaning teeth, though, who knows).
Though the biggest teeth thing would be people would have naturally healthy "yellowed" teeth. Not sure at what point it become considered the "normal" to have luminous glowing white teeth you can see at night, bleached and painted with paper toner, but somehow it did..
Sachsen, or as you call them "saxons" are alive and well today. Just FYI.
Hopefully not. History does not have any part to play if it's not a documentary for education reasons, fun should alllllways be more important in entertainment, I don't care if it makes me "stupid", i'll take over the top any day over another brown leather outfit.
There's usually nothing more boring than all the "historic accuracy" people who not only suck the fun out of everything, but go beyond sucking the fun out of actual historic examples. So were left with brown leather everything while at the same time making all kinds of bizarre errors (the elbow pads, I mean are they going roller blading after a joust) so ironically it ends up less "historically accurate" than lots of the fun actually historic things. Then repeated over and over a bazillion times. History is full of weird, fun stuff. It's not all brown and beige and sad, but some people find it easier to cope with if it is.
However, there's a long, looong weird history of things to do with the "accuratizing" of the medieval period (especially during the 1800s). Where people went on a rampage of returning buildings and battle items (especially churches and armor) to their "roots". Buildings were often "taken back to the original bare stone", while in the process removing wall paintings and plaster that were part of the original building. The same happened with battle attire, which was removed of all original paint as being polished and shiny became the look. So now people think that was how things were, when it actually wasn't remotely. It's kind of like how in some periods black and white films often weren't black and white. Ask basically anyone now and they will think they were, because that's all they've ever seen.
I knoww, I meant the "period".
My Medieval story's fantasy angle is those Russet potatoes grown big and blight free in multitudes.
Not all that surprising actually. Building a church took a long time and a lot of skilled worker. These workers had to live somewhere while they were building that church, and they had to have those living arrangements in place before work on the church could even start. So yeah, the public house would be older than the church for the obvious reason that it would be one of the things sorted out while living accomodations would be arranged and erected.
I have to strongly disagree. Historic accuracy is highly fascinating and far more fun than just winging it. Yes, I understand that you like the "big picture" and and the magic the proponents of historic accuracy find in the most minuscule detail does nothing to you, so you see "brown leather everything" where they see an amazing world of structure and technique that went into forming that particular shade of brown at that particular texture using this particular type of leather making do with only those particular tools and techniques available at that particular point in time in that particular area it was made. They do not "suck the fun out of everything", their fun is just not your fun and there's no need to put them down for it.But to get back to the barmaid. Is it just me or does anyone else thing the promo for that item looks very well like it is just cut out of a 50s film despicting some "quaint European" place?