As a beginner, how do I 'cut' and 'chop' this to form other clothing?

launoklaunok Posts: 761
edited December 1969 in Hexagon Discussion

I think I have asked sometime back also about cutting parts from a pre-made clothing model but no answers were given.

I have first tried this in Silo but it keeps on crashing. Now over to Hexagon - at least no crashes up to know, touch wood!

The model of this bodysuit is from a resource kit by Ghastly from ShareCG. I have tried contacting Ghastly but not getting any replies on the emails.

I have NEVER modeled or worked in Hexagon before. Thus, totally new to this medium of 3d modeling! :red:

I have attached an image of one of the .obj's from the resource kit as it shows up in Hexagon 2. All I want to try to do, is to make shorter sleeves and change it into a jacket with a middle seam so it can close and open with morphs, without pants part attached to it. Also to make pants separate on its own - long and short pants. I have tried to look at the Hexagon manual but can't find about cutting off pieces from a model. I have find some videos to create clothing from scratch but this is not what I want to do.

The whole idea is that Ghastly has given the resource kit specially so own can alter it ... but this is where I am really struggling!! How do I alter it to a short-sleeved jacket/jersey with separate pants? Ghastly said he will do a tutorial at his Rendo upload in freestuff of the same set, but with him not answering I have no idea if it will be done. Will this be easy to do for beginners?

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Comments

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    :-)

    Give me a sec to go download it.

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited December 1969

    :-)

    Give me a sec to go download it.

    Catherine, please dear .... my head is spinning all round. I really feel like some zombie. People like you who are so talented is really needed in times like this! Your tutorials are great! :-)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    Okay .... get zee bowl of popcorn ... these things take time.

    For starters, I hope you've read something of the "clothing dummy" ... you need one in the project file to model the clothing on top of.

    I downloaded this one from Ghastly's collection ... it's based on the "make human project" stuff ... so yes one can use it however with the creative commons license or whatever, such items are not recommended for making merchandise for $. I mention this for others reading the post, I know this isn't where you're at Laura.

    It's also a tad more detailed than the average "starter" suit might be ... you might like to also take a look at Joequick's starter suits ... they are also on sharecg.com now. Had been a commercial item and now he's been sharing them ... some were to go along with my tutorials so I appreciate that and do mention them.

    Working with "any" mesh with a symmetrical end product desired, while loosely editing both sides, keep the fastidiously accurate detailing to "one side only". Why is because when the time is right, one deletes the entire other half, and makes a symmetrical copy over :-)

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited August 2014

    more pics.

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    Post edited by patience55 on
  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Catherine, will go and look into this - much appreciated all your help! :-)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969
  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    Hi Catherine,

    I have tried playing in Hexagon with given short tutorial set above and got this far. I haven't tried it out on Genesis as yet as I am still figuring out how to do this first.

    As you will see with the attached images I have got the suit now as a kind of short-sleeved vest! But the cutting part I am struggling with. You will notice I have got a straight line as described in your first method. On your following up image you have 2 blue lines. The moment I am trying to create a second line, the 1st line disappears. In the image where it states "Extract along" the line moves a bit but at this point I am not quite following. I was following the steps in your above images marked 004, 005 and when comes to 006 I am not quite understanding. Where do I get the "face normals" to use together with the I on keyboard which I must then loop to form a cut? Is "face normals" something on the mesh or part of Hexagon itself? I have never used this before. In the Hexagon manual I can't find a term "face normal".

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    Post edited by launok on
  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    I had another look at your 006_loop.jpg image. Is the "face normals" perhaps the lines showing in this attached image? If so, and when I click on them together with the "I" key to loop the middle straight line to make a clear cut down, still nothing happens! I think I am missing a step? :roll:

    It seems there should have been 2 lines down the middle to do this step of cutting. In your 005.jpg image it does show 2 blue lines. But when I try to make a 2nd blue line the 1st one disappears? How can I make a 2nd straight line without this happening? This could be the problem maybe? :smirk:

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    Post edited by launok on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    At the bottom of your screen shots where you see "Restricted" ... click the little arrow and make that "no DG".

    ? the manipulator. If you hit the spacebar, that will toggle the viewing of the manipulator. If it's supposed to be showing and isn't, then you are in the middle of some action and must needs complete that by validating or aborting it.

    Do not apply additional smoothing at this stage. Cutting and welding and smoothing do not work well together.

    Oh they teased me when I started ... I called everything "faces, dots or lines". I was told that the "faces" are "face normals", the dots are vertices or vertex, and the lines are lines. "Faces" are those white/coloured pieces of mesh.
    In your last picture you have Faces selected ... so if you clicked on faces, each one would turn "blue". If you picked 2 in a row and then "l" [el] on the keyboard, it would loop what it can in that direction.

    In your first set images ... looks like you applied thickness? no ... that's not for clothing ...
    And that's why the looping of lines isn't working as expected. We work with a single layer of mesh.

    To get the 2 blue lines, was first extracting "around" the centre line.
    Then selecting the centre band of faces and then clicking "delete".
    And the selected one line on one side, held down the Shift Key, and clicked on one line on the other side.
    Then clicked the "l" [el] key to loop them.
    Then clicked on the red cube on the manipulator and pushed just until it flipped to have the lines very close together.
    The idea being for the end result to appear as a closed vest might.
    Later on morphs can be made to "open" the vest.

    Hope this helps ....

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    In your first set images ... looks like you applied thickness? no ... that's not for clothing ...
    And that's why the looping of lines isn't working as expected. We work with a single layer of mesh.

    No, as far as I know I haven't applied anything unless I made a mistake without knowing. I was actually wondering why the model seams looks so wide (thick) when I had moved it with the rotate tool and not thin as clothing! :ohh: (see how thick the neck seam is)

    I will have a look at everything tomorrow - now off to bed! Thanks again for all your help!

    Laura

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    Here's are a few simple examples to show use of tools.

    Hexagon comes with the basic shapes from which most items can be created.
    I used the cube for this one.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    And the smoothing button.

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  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    Catherine,

    At last I got somewhere with all your help! :) Thank you again and also thank you for explaining some other tools in Hexagon too! :-)

    Attached are the results of today.

    I want to try this on Genesis 1 but can't find the items in Daz Studio 4.6 content library (program itself). I have exported the vest from Hexagon to "My Documents" as .obj (wavefront). Under my documents there are 2 files: ghastly vest try 1e.mtl and ghastly vest 1e.obj To which folder I have to copy these 2 files as to see it in Daz Studio 4.6? I have copied it to "My Libraries" and have looked through all possible folders but can't find it. I assume one can copy an .obj on it's own to DS? I can upload it to Bryce for sure, but in this instance I want to try it out on Genesis. :roll:

    EDIT: Someone at Daz Studio forum suggests I have to convert the file to another format so that DS4.6 can read it! Can you perhaps help here? They say an .obj is only a static model format which means it will not work this way (conforms) to Genesis. There are so many things I have to learn first about proper 3D modeling! :ohh:

    AND EDIT AGAIN: I think I got it. Just remembered I saw a 'send to Daz Studio' option and used it which works!!! Image attached. It was in DS under "Other Import Formats". I just have to try fitting it now onto Genesis and see if it will conform since it's still only an .obj format file. Hopefully! Fingers crossed! ;-)

    NO, NOT WORKING!!! Can only be manually fitted by tweaking but is not working with the poses. And the front seam line looks terrible!! :smirk:
    Can this be due to the fact it's still .obj format and not in the proper DS format? Are there converters from .obj to DS formats?

    Laura

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    Post edited by launok on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    Okay, first things first.

    In D/S load Genesis. On Scene Tab be sure Genesis is "selected".

    Up to the top bar: File > Export > .obj

    put it anywhere you want to find, atm the desktop is fine.

    Open Hexagon, Import in that Genesis .obj file. Do not move it around at all.
    Select all the groups of it and weld them into one form.
    Import in the new jacket you're making. It "must be" placed on Genesis exactly as desired.

    If/when it is, select Genesis and delete it from Hexagon.
    Select the new jacket and export out an .obj file ... I normally put these into the Runtime > Geometries > Your Handle folder.
    However for testing and/or making a .duf file, I don't think it really matters.

    Anyhow ... in D/S load Genesis.
    File > Import in the new jacket from wherever you saved it to.
    Move nothing.
    Run the "transfer utility" tool.

    Select Genesis as the donor, the jacket as the subject.
    As soon as the transfer utility has run, the clothing item is 'made' but it is not yet saved.
    If it's a keeper, on the Scene Tab, select the clothing item [do not select from the viewport 'cause it'll pick Genesis].

    Save this file to a place under "My Library" ... NOT in the Runtime.
    Suggested location would be under People > Genesis > clothing > your name > whatever subfolder(s) you may or not be wanting for collecting your clothing items into.

    Now when you select Genesis and pose it, morph it, etc. the clothing item should move around too.

    If you like how the mesh is done, back in Hexagon it'll need to be uvmapped and have some Shading Domains created for it too.
    Then the clothing piece would be re-created.

    It is possible to create clothing to test it ... and as long as it is not saved, when the item is removed from the scene and/or D/S is closed, it will not be a saved item.

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    Thank you for these new tips, I will go and try them out. Just show how little I actually know about modeling! :blank: Your help is much appreciated! :-)

    Post edited by launok on
  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited December 1969

    Okay, first things first.

    In D/S load Genesis. On Scene Tab be sure Genesis is "selected".

    Up to the top bar: File > Export > .obj

    put it anywhere you want to find, atm the desktop is fine.

    Open Hexagon, Import in that Genesis .obj file. Do not move it around at all.
    Select all the groups of it and weld them into one form.
    Import in the new jacket you're making. It "must be" placed on Genesis exactly as desired.

    If/when it is, select Genesis and delete it from Hexagon.
    Select the new jacket and export out an .obj file ... I normally put these into the Runtime > Geometries > Your Handle folder.
    However for testing and/or making a .duf file, I don't think it really matters.

    Anyhow ... in D/S load Genesis.
    File > Import in the new jacket from wherever you saved it to.
    Move nothing.
    Run the "transfer utility" tool.

    Select Genesis as the donor, the jacket as the subject.
    As soon as the transfer utility has run, the clothing item is 'made' but it is not yet saved.
    If it's a keeper, on the Scene Tab, select the clothing item [do not select from the viewport 'cause it'll pick Genesis].

    Save this file to a place under "My Library" ... NOT in the Runtime.
    Suggested location would be under People > Genesis > clothing > your name > whatever subfolder(s) you may or not be wanting for collecting your clothing items into.

    Now when you select Genesis and pose it, morph it, etc. the clothing item should move around too.

    If you like how the mesh is done, back in Hexagon it'll need to be uvmapped and have some Shading Domains created for it too.
    Then the clothing piece would be re-created.

    It is possible to create clothing to test it ... and as long as it is not saved, when the item is removed from the scene and/or D/S is closed, it will not be a saved item.

    I think I am again missing some points!?

    After I have imported the Genesis.obj into Hexagon without moving it, select all and then "weld" it's ok it seems. I have used the button under Vertex modelling which states "weld" only as on attached image. There are average weld, weld points and target weld (w) but I assume the one I have used are the correct one?

    Still not moving anything as you mentioned, I then import the jacket (see attached image) ... but it doesn't appear in the scene with the Genesis.obj. If I open it Genesis scene disappears and only jacket appear in another scene which is off course wrong. I have redone all the steps you have described again but importing of the jacket doesn't show. What am I doing wrong at this point? I assume it's the jacket in Hexagon format as it appears in the image I must import!?

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    It doesn't look like you're using the same export/import suggestions I have in my tutorials. The figure of Genesis should be about 3/4 the height of the grid ... not "tiny" like it is for morphing.

    Yes it's the "weld" button to use.

    To find something ...

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  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    It doesn't look like you're using the same export/import suggestions I have in my tutorials. The figure of Genesis should be about 3/4 the height of the grid ... not "tiny" like it is for morphing.

    Yes it's the "weld" button to use.

    To find something ...

    Catherine, thank you for this help too and will try it out soon! :-)

    Sorry for the belated message but I was 'out of action' a bit and hadn't do a thing up to now due to a bad migraine attack. On the other thread regarding .obj problem I was also not thinking straight due to this condition on my health, but this morning while still in bed, I suddenly has realised that I have not rendered the jacket at all previously! You may think I am really silly! But then I have to admit that I have only maybe once or twice used Daz Studio's render option a long time back, as all my scenes I am using Bryce 7 to render in. The render in Daz Studio shows a perfect seam line apart of bad dark grey mat areas ... only texture made it look strange in original scene. :red:

    I have attached some proposed cuts I want to try ... will this work with the same procedure(s) as you have given earlier on in this thread for the single front seam line cut, etc.? The front seam line cut was kind of easy as the line was already in the original mesh and I worked directly on that! But the new cut lines I want to try is not on the mesh of Ghastly as you will notice in the attached images. I have quickly draw these up earlier today in PSPX2 to show you more or less what kind of cuts I want to try - not perfect drawings! :smirk: The image is also attached of the cyclist under vest, hence the reason why I want to know if it's possible. Wilmap (Wendy) has made a cyclist outfit on a request by myself to her but I want to try add-on's to the set, one reason why I have started with the outside jacket (jersey). Still have to shorten the neck part still, as it's too high for a cyclist jersey style.

    Although I haven't draw up proposed cut drawings for a diamond and oval/round part in the middle of mesh, would love to learn that too. This will be great to use on swimsuit styles with diamond or round part open cuts in the middle.

    Images attached:
    Cyclist under vest style I am interested in (my sketch is way out as I can't draw well with mouse)
    2 neck style options
    Daz Studio render

    Thank you again for all your help which is much appreciated. :-)

    Laura

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    Post edited by launok on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    On the last image of the rendered jacket, those black areas indicate another line of tessellation is required as the shape is not holding, but folding over somehow. Impossible to texture that nicely.

    For different necklines, don't be afraid to experiment. In order to "cut" aka "delete" mesh out, one does need to make tessellation lines to travel the exact outline desired. One of the other dot to line buttons is a manual selection, it'll but the dot on the line exactly where you place it. Enter to Validate or Validate, to end the action.
    Then select and "delete" the undesired mesh. Then apply a test smoothing to see if it looks right. Undo the smoothing and make any adjustments. It does take awhile to learn how the program works, and how to work with the program, and how to coax the program to make our treasured dream outfits happen.

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    In your post nr #3 on this thread, last image, it shows 2 blue lines. This is where the mistake occurred as I had not have 2 lines if I am remembering it correctly. :smirk: Will have to do that part again. Well, this is how it goes - trial and error is part of learning! I am also going through the online manual about tessellation lines and had downloaded quite a lot of video tuts and one of them explains this among the rest which explains most tools of Hexagon!

    Post edited by launok on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    launok said:
    In your post nr #3 on this thread, last image, it shows 2 blue lines. This is where the mistake occurred as I had not have 2 lines if I am remembering it correctly. :smirk: Will have to do that part again. Well, this is how it goes - trial and error is part of learning! I am also going through the online manual about tessellation lines and had downloaded quite a lot of video tuts and one of them explains this among the rest which explains most tools of Hexagon!

    The blue lines show where the new tessellation lines are from the extract around action. As you practice making different lines it'll all make more sense. Good, there are several very good videos available online. And somewhere on your computer, possibly in the program folder somewhere is a manual for Hexagon too.

  • RectroRectro Posts: 35
    edited December 1969

    Post some pictures of the low polygon cage mesh without adding Sub D to the mesh, it will be much easier to see what's going on. Aside from bad geometry having some normals reversed, with double sided view on can gives this strange effect. Also if you have a texture map applied with Bad Uvs, this can cause the same problem with the middle seam.

    Dan.

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited August 2014

    CGDreams said:
    Post some pictures of the low polygon cage mesh without adding Sub D to the mesh, it will be much easier to see what's going on. Aside from bad geometry having some normals reversed, with double sided view on can gives this strange effect. Also if you have a texture map applied with Bad Uvs, this can cause the same problem with the middle seam.

    Dan.

    Thanks Dan, I have used the SubD convert option now and it worked! :-)

    Now have to go and check a short tut by Chacornac on how to get it to fit and conform to Genesis!

    Laura

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    Post edited by launok on
  • RectroRectro Posts: 35
    edited December 1969

    Well done glad you sorted it.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,988
    edited December 1969

    CGDreams said:
    Post some pictures of the low polygon cage mesh without adding Sub D to the mesh, it will be much easier to see what's going on. Aside from bad geometry having some normals reversed, with double sided view on can gives this strange effect. Also if you have a texture map applied with Bad Uvs, this can cause the same problem with the middle seam.

    Dan.

    The starter the op was using is shown nearer the beginning of the thread. It's a derivative of the MH mesh offered by Ghastly over at sharecg.

    @op, looking good!

    First time I've seen a clothing item made before it was fit to the person, but whatever works for you ;-)

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited September 2014

    Yes, it worked without having the actual Genesis .obj at all in Hexagon, lol!

    Here are my renders after struggling somewhat and Bryce crashes most of the times - but anyways, here is the Bryce renders and Daz scene. Ok, I will talk later again of what procedures I have followed but now off to go and watch the "La Vuelta"! :)

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    Post edited by launok on
  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 794
    edited December 1969

    Well done Launock.

    With such perseverance we'll see more great things soon.

    :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,232
    edited December 1969

    Wel gedaan, Laura:)

    Hou so aan en die geheime van hierdie kuns sal gou ontleed word!

    Ek sien uit na meer werk van jou.

    As fiestryer, verneem ek graag waarvandaan jy die fiets gekry het?

    Groetnes

    Roy

  • launoklaunok Posts: 761
    edited December 1969

    Hallo Roy,

    Baie dankie vir jou bemoedigende kommentaar, ek waardeer dit opreg. :-) Ek gaan die 'link' na die fiets vir jou PM aangesien ek hierdie 'forum thread' eerder wil beeindig. Ek sal dit later doen want ek gaan nou eers na my sepie 7de Laan kyk wat smiddae herhaal word. As jy teen vanaand nog nie 'n PM gekry het nie, laat my sommer hier weet.

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