How were these flames produced
Drogo Nazhur
Posts: 1,033
Post edited by Chohole on
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In all likelihood using some sort of FLAME photoshop action similar to the ones found on envato
https://elements.envato.com/flames-photoshop-action-PQNREP
So you are saying that it was done after the render and not as part of the render?
Too bad. I would have loved to buy that package if it was offered here.
The flames cut off very flat on the left hand side of the weapon, and just above the calf on the same side - I think they were manually applied.
I agree with Misselthwaite, and if you look closely, you will see repeated patterns- looks like a photoshop addition of a flame pattern on top of the render.
Highly likely that it's some of Ron's Photoshop brushes (for sale here at DAZ) with layer effects and/or blending modes applied to get that look. All done in postwork.
People ought to learn PhotoShop, GIMP, or some other post-work tool. Just look at the Gallery, and look at the ones who get the most likes.
The hobby just isn't complete without some ability to refine a render and generate a complete piece of art.
I'd agree, but this is one of those weird schisms that develop. At one end, there are a lot of DS and Poser users who want to create everything "in-render" and eschew any post work, while at the other end is a camp that basically use the 3D software to generate seperate elements that will be only be completely assembled in post. And in between, of course, there lots of people who use what works for them in a particular situation, though I've never heard of anyone who works in CG professionally who doesn't lean toward the postwork/color grading side simply because it's so much faster to make revisions.
If more people embraced post-work, even those who do their Daz on potatos could do more brilliant stuff. It's the one reason I am firmly on the side of post-work
Doing work after the render is the great leveler for computing power, being able to compose a whole image in post that couldn't otherwise be done on a potato.
I personally do postwork, sometimes more sometimes less. Though I am of the mind that people should be allowed to Choose themselves wether they wish to do postwork or not, and it shouldn't be expected of them to embrace postwork if they do not wish to, or simply don't feel comfortable with it.
I use Postwork with animated videos even, it's call compositing and the pros in the industry all do it
WETA posts YouTube videos of their CGI breakdowns
I could actually do that with animated flames using Boris FX Particle Illusion
Quite - but those using postwork also shouldn't be made to feel they are cheating, there was bit of that around here at one time.
Looks like post-processing.
Flames can be done in Blender and other 3D packages.
Is the correct answer.
I do no postwork, because I haven't learned Photoshop or Gimp. I will, but not right now - I still have to learn how to do DAZ properly.
+1
It's most likely postwork, but you can get very good results with https://www.daz3d.com/morphing-flames
Definitely post work... the figure was rendered as a png with no background and an outward glow was added to it in an image editor like photoshop... probably on a separate layer below, the flames were added wherever they seemed appropriate, and seem to be comprised of multiple instances of a couple of brushes built up over each other to create a larger flame effect... the flames are cut off in several areas, so most likely they are brushes, or the artist didn't notice they cut them off during some process... (That really bothers me now that I saw it and I really want to fix it)... when looking at the flames, I'm pretty sure they are brushes because I can see several distinct patterns of flame repeated and rotated...
If you attempt a similar effect please fade the edges of the flames that may have sharp cutoff or do a smudge and drag effect to eliminate that sharp cutoff.
I only care about the finisihed image- not how the artist got there. If someone is proud that they used no postwork-that's their choice- I can enjoy their sucess. But I will use every tool in the box that I have acess to.
Reminds me of a big Art show I was in. In the gallery party, after a little champagne, the talk got catty. The oil painters looked down on the Acrylics artists ( my group ), The Acrylic painters looked down at the pastel guys, All the 'Fine Artists' looked down on the photographers... and the photographers looked down on the few 3 D people there...
God I hate that... one of the reasons I never liked calling myself an artist, just "a maker of stuff"... in a "professional" environment you see so many people who need to look down on someone to feel special.
Back in the 80s I worked in NYC as an art handler (glorified name for a hanger and shipper of expensive art), I got to meet many famous and influential artists, but the ones who really impressed me were those who played the "success" game, yet in person were humble and diversely talented.
There were so many jerks out there it was unbelievable and borderline cliche.
I am not a fan of postwork as a process, but like looking at art that includes it. I personally get more satifaction spending the time tweaking the materials and settings in DS so the renderer can do the work rather than spending that time painting in photoshop or GIMP. I view it as two totally different skill sets. then again, my goal isn't to create any type of art, just to create the image in my head with my preferred method. Whenever I do use postwork it drives me nuts second guessing the way things look, is that shadow supposed to be like that, are those colors washed out, the details to strong, etc. That is why I like unbiased rendering, I let the math do the work
I'd love to see a no post gallery just to keep things more separate since many can't tell the difference and assume a user can get the same effects that brushes and after effects give, such in this image.
And as long as you're happy with that, that's great, though I think a no-post gallery would fall apart pretty quickly with arguments as to what is and isn't post work, as there will inevitably be some people who'll argue about re-framing and adding watermarks. For my own projects, I find that there are still far too many things that simply can't be done in DS in-render (or Iray) due to limitations of the software. DS has come a LONG way in the last couple of years, but even when I use the software to acheive most of what I do, I still have to go to post to acheive\certain things... realistic motion blur in Iray, multiple soft body collisions on the same figure, hands and other props interacting properly with transmapped hair, changing scenic/structural elements that are part of an HDRI, torn off sections of clothing. And that's to say nothing of the ability to manipulate the base textures and colors prior to actually rendering, or the speed of clean up as opposed to re-rendering.
One of the reasons I like to do it all in DAZ Studio is so, if I finally get it right, I don't have to try to fix something in other software if I render it again. Like, if you finally get the flames right but then want to add a new character, it would be easier to add the character and render again, rather than add the character, render again, and use Photoshop again. But I don't see anything wrong with people modifying the picture after it's rendered. I do that for stuff I can't seem to get right in Daz Studio.
As a semi-potato owner, I just 100% believe everyone should learn a trick or two in GIMP or PS, and then decide if it's right for their work flow. Compositing, for instance. It's simple, it makes your renders go faster for like 10 seconds of GIMP/PS time. Nobody NEEDS to do post-work, really, but everyone ought to try it.
It's not really just about "fixing" things. It's making things better. Real life images don't get completed in one pass. Hollywood doesn't work that way. Photography doesn't work that way, not when it was plates or film, not today when it's digital... developing an image has always been a process, and there's magic to be found in playing with that process.
I like to see how much I can accomplish in Daz, before turning to postwork, but I also use PS and Filterforge to retexture before I render, so it isn`t just about postwork. It`s really just another toolset, and your reasons for using them, or not, are just as variable as the reasons for doing anything at all :-) Personally, I start with a vision in my head, and will use anything I can get my hands on to get closer to that vision. There are still lots of things I have no idea how to do in Photoshop so there`s probably lots of ways I could improve a picture there, but I`m getting comfortable with my Daz workflow, so that's always encouraging, too!
There would almost certainly be a benefit if everyone did, but people aren't logical creatures and, to kit-bash the old sayings, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him learn new tricks.
Interesting, I never knew there was a looking down on post work with renders. I come from the film world where we have the we'll fix it in post mantra lol (it's a joke though, anyone who thinks that on set is in for a very rude awakening). But everything is planned to be done in post now except for a very small group that want practical effects. The past three years that I've been doing Daz, I just automatically out of habit bring render everything seperate so I can bring it into After Effects and comp it all together and easily add in any special effect I need.
But I agree, whatever floats your float is the right answer for you!
There is a program called Flame Painter which does this perfectly.
Google it as I don't think I can post a link.
the reason for a no postwork statement is if showing off the model or render engine IMO
the former for the artists skill if they modelled it, the later for showcasing the render engine.
I do think at least one no postwork render is important for selling 3D models!
I otherwise don't understand why people even argue about it.
+1