DS4+ Simple Prop Rigging Tutorials
Szark
Posts: 10,634
Been a while since I asked for help but I really need it now.
I am in despreate need for tutorails (free or otherwise) for either Poser legacy rigging or full blown DS triax rigging or both would be even better. They can be vid or Pdf etc. Dealing with postioning pivot points for axis of rotation etc.
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Well for simple xyz aligned meshs I figured it out. Now to figure out to move the pivot point so I am not constained by the axis.
All joints rotate about the Center Point, along an axis aligned with the End Point. Select the appropriate bone, and with the Joint Editor Tool, move the points where you want (Center is green, End is Red), either by dragging the arrows in the viewport or adjusting the values in the Tool Settings panel. Align the node and Memorize the node rigging (from right-click context menu in viewport). That's basically all there is to rotations. Don't forget to save the asset, or save modified assets.
Blondie9999 has a few (okay, 3) excellent .pdf rigging tutorials for older TriAx figures (Genesis, in particular). Basic rigging principles are pretty much the same for Poser products, but the weight-mapping is very different (parametric vs. "painted"). There are resources from Esha, Sickleyield, and Dreamlight, but I don't know those.
There are dozens of threads and videos out there if you search outside the site (hi, google). You can narrow the search scope by specifying a domain in the search terms, like "rigging site:daz3d.com/forums", or "daz studio rigging site:youtube", or "poser rigging site:youtube". Too many results to pick from to actually recommend any one over another...
I can rig anything that is modeled to align to the global axis (xyz) in DS. Simple props with moving parts.
What I am finding hard is getting the right info on how to get a bone (after Figure Setup) to rotate using the mesh's Local Orientations. The Tools Settings for Joint Editor won't allow to rotate the bone so it uses the mesh's local orientation.
Hope that makes sense. I have been meaning to learn this for years but can never find the right info.
It could be a case of an issue from Blender to DS as I have tested the hell out of the Export settings. I am missing a key term I am sure of it.
So, moving the bone center and end points anywhere in space doesn't do what you want? That certainly changes the axes of rotation. Figure setup positions the bone ends at the centroid of the mesh boundaries at either end, but they can be moved after.
Do you mean the rotation of a bone (and corresponding mesh) attached to another bone that has moved? The bone rotates but the mesh doesn't follow properly, or at all? Might have to do with weight maps.
Think of this triangle is a top of a tripod, looking down from the top, and the arrows are the legs. The top leg is ok as it corresponds to DS global coordinates but the bottom 2 legs don't. This is where the Figure Setup tools won't allow me to go against the strict Global xyz axis in DS.
It's been a while since I've done it, but the tutorials that helped me the most were Jen Greenlees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKwLPrDnAVg part 1, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AvgyRUOXc part 2, and Sickleyield: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNFHv8K8qKg
Okay, I see what you are saying. I don't think the orientation matters, figure setup will make the bone fit the face group. Yes, the origin and end points are in global x, y, z coordinates, but the bones do not have to lie parallel to the primary axis system. The two bottom bones can point in the directions shown, and rotations will follow the bone orientation. Do you have any articulated figures that have appendages that are attached at an angle to the body, like an insect/spider model or some insect-like mech where the arms radiate out from the middle? The bones are at all angles, but rotations are aligned with the bones. Some rotations would need to be combined to get the desired orientation, just as in real lfe, you can't always achieve it with a single rotation (in fact, rarely with one, with orthogonal, spherical, or whatever coordinate system you use). The y-axis usually gets the twist, and the x and z rotations are perpendicular to the y-axis.Twisting first, then bending or side-to-side will give a different result. I don't see how that could be built-in to Figure Setup, even if you knew exactly how to orient the bone axes beforehand. It would have to be saved with the rigging after adjustment. Any clearer?
Thanks yeah those helped me start with simple props.
Yeah it is a tripod with a body and 3 legs. 4 meshes 1 body and 3 legs. NP with the initial setup in Figure Setup it is just try to figure out how to get the bone to bend the right way. I will take another look and see if I can make head or tail of the Figure Setup Tools. Thanks for your input.
"Face Group" I just reread it and maybe that is something I am missing understanding of.
A Face Group is the set of polygons that make up a segment of the mesh that you want to rig, like one of the legs (as opposed to a Surface group, which is for materials). The Figure setup gives you the option of assigning a rotation order (XYZ, XZY, YXZ, YZX, ZXY, ZYX). Normally the Y axis is along the length, with X and Z perpendicular (bend, side-to-side).
*click* The rotation order is for local orientations of the bone, not world coordinates. The legs would all take YZX (or YXZ) so that the twist is along the length, and bend and side-to-side are the other two rotations w.r.t. the Center Point of the bone.
Yeah that is where I am stuck. I can position the bones no problem, I don't have any issue with choosing the right orientation in Figure Setup Tools, yeah I know we can change it in the Joint Editor too. I am normally pretty good at picking this stuff up but this one thing is driving me crazy. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
OK anyone know of a good paid for tutorial on rigging wierd stuff in DS. I really need some semi to expert help.
After you have done all what can be done using the Figure Setup pane, "create" the figure from the Figure Pane and close that. [one can save a file for it from that pane]. Then with the figure in the viewport, save a scene file. Then using the Joint Editor tool* [looks like a dog bone] one can make more bone adjustments. Many options are a right-click option in the viewport. Are you going for legacy rigging or weights? For what it's worth, I have found legacy rigging can be easier to start with for props, then converted to weight mapping when done.
* and open the Tools Pane, very handy.
Done all that and more but thank you for trying.
Face Groups make the bones. Start with "one mesh" though that has the [at least 4] main face groups. Export out that .obj. Bring it into Figure Skeleton setup and rig it. If the legs telescope then there'd be about 10 face groups.
{disclaimer, I have not yet rigged a tripod but this concept worked with other projects}
It sounds like I need to go a find more about face groups and how they fit it to rigging local movement as opposed to global, thank you.
Try it first with a smaller item, such as a cylinder with lots of mesh. Import it into D/S, geometry editor tool, select say 3 sections of mesh giving each its own face group. Then export the .obj file and clear the scene. Load it into the Figure/Skeleton Panel and click those tiny arrows to see the list. Each group became a bone. Slide it over to the rigging side, select Legacy rigging, stack the bones to their 'parent' and 'create' ... you'll have a figure with say 3 bones. If one wants legacy, one can export out a .cr2 file [providing that the geometry used was first located in the Runtime > Geometries > your subfolders] ... and or go to, I think it's under Edit someplace, to convert the rigging to weight mapping. D/S does its thing and there it be. File > Save As > Figure/prop [if you want to keep it].
Just off hand, the 3 legs should be parented to the tripod's top [as hip]. The initial .obj file should be on the floor in the 0/0 position. [if it's not, put it there, export out at Carrara settings, clear scene, import back in at Carrara settings ... should be now landing exactly where needed].
OK "giving each it's own face group" and bone hierarchy is something I need to look into.
Has anyone bought this https://www.daz3d.com/rigging-vehicles-and-mechs-in-daz-studio and if so was it worth it as I am assuming it might help with my situation. Yeah money is really tight at the mo so I need to spend wisely.
Looks useful if one wants to build a vehicle. They are videos. Unless there's something about your tripod unlike my tripods I suspect it's a little overkill. Something to grab when it comes on sale perhaps.
Can you share an image of what the .obj for the tripod looks like? Some have legs that tube together, others have a central slot that fits inside the top leg, others ???
A tripod for what? A camera, a telescope, a surveyor's gizmo, ??? Some have static parts others also telescope.
I can't share sorry but yes it is camera tripod. The reason I asked about that tutorial is that I suspect I might doing more of this work in the future and it might help to learn how to do complex things and in turn help with the simple things.
Okay, I've got a few of those around here ;-)
Will play around with a few ideas and see what happens.
I had the same idea. I do have a tripod from AOA. Good thinking batman and thank you for your help, very much appreciated.
You're welcome.
I played around with some mesh. I went for making it legacy first, adjusting the bones, then converting it to legacy. Concept works.
BUT no, parenting the legs to the 'hip' was not a good idea 'cause the hip would rotate about and change shape etc.
So my final board looked like this image {remember this was a quick draft, not gospel}, after 'creating' the figure, then one manually flips the ends around so the wide bottom part of the bone is at the top and the narrow end is at the foot. Then the bend/slide options will rotate the legs from the hip.