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"5 Stylistic Backdrops" - Misleading Product Page

StargazeyStargazey Posts: 276
edited July 2020 in Daz Studio Discussion

I'm not sure if this is the right place to raise this (it isn't actually a bug with the product). I bought this item yesterday, quite pleased that it says in the description "Daz Studio Material Presets (.DUF)" - there is no mention anywhere on the page of Iray. When I opened the product I discovered that it is actually Iray only, which is a bit annoying as I use normally use 3Delight and find Iray only products a bit of a problem.

I appreciate that I'm probably in a minority by not using Iray (and dForce), but I have an old PC and can't afford to update just for DAZ Studio. Also I have a lot of older products that I use regularly and I'm not sure how well it works mixing 3Delight and Iray products in the same scene. Quite often converters don't seem to work properly. It's a shame because I don't buy many new products because of this lack of support for 3Delight.

 I do think vendors should make it absolutly clear if their products are Iray only. (Likewise with dForce, I wish vendors would make it clear if their products only work with it.)

Post edited by Stargazey on

Comments

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,687

    This is something best raised with Daz https://www.daz3d.com/help/help-contact-us

  • StargazeyStargazey Posts: 276

    Thanks - I'll do that.

  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,715

    I'd return it and say why you're returning it. Feedback for a return is important and useful.

  • LeanaLeana Posts: 13,031

    I agree it's pretty annoying to see new items released which don't specify what kind of materials are included (I usually assume they're Iray only in that case, since unfortunately a lot of vendors only support Iray).

    Not updating all older pages is totally understandable, but it should definitely be specified on new ones.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Stargazey said:

    I appreciate that I'm probably in a minority by not using Iray (and dForce), but I have an old PC and can't afford to update just for DAZ Studio. Also I have a lot of older products that I use regularly and I'm not sure how well it works mixing 3Delight and Iray products in the same scene. Quite often converters don't seem to work properly. It's a shame because I don't buy many new products because of this lack of support for 3Delight.

    I hear you! A small advice from a long time 3DL user: Take the time and trouble to look into converting stuff manually. Most IRay presets can be converted to work in 3DL, the exception being if the product uses multilayered custom IRay shaders. just always make sure that everything in your scene is properly converted to 3DL shaders, and there should be no problem. IMO the converters do a pretty poor job, generally, so further tweaking will be necessary.

    Stargazey said:

     I do think vendors should make it absolutly clear if their products are Iray only. (Likewise with dForce, I wish vendors would make it clear if their products only work with it.)

    Agreed!! Please file a ticket, as suggested!

    Sidenote: This particular product should convert to 3DL without problems, you could just apply the dz default shader to all the surfaces and make sure the opacitymaps are inserted in the opacity strength slot. ( Worst case scenario, you need to locate them manually and load them). Even the emissive lighting could be converted using the OmUber Area light shader that you will find in your content library:light presets: Omnifreaker:Area light base.

    Yeah my two cents, if you're not up to it, just ask for a refund, been there done that;)

     

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,710

    The problem with converting manually is the number of items involved.  For example, I love Faveral's products because they contain so many different items,  Converting 100+ items manually, even if each item has only one surface, is a lengthy process.  I've tried both free and paid converters with little success -- even when they do a decent job on most of the materials, they miss enough that it isn't worth the time to do the rest.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Fixmypcmike said:

    The problem with converting manually is the number of items involved.  For example, I love Faveral's products because they contain so many different items,  Converting 100+ items manually, even if each item has only one surface, is a lengthy process.  I've tried both free and paid converters with little success -- even when they do a decent job on most of the materials, they miss enough that it isn't worth the time to do the rest.

    Well it's a tedious process but someone has to do it, right:)) For me it doesn't really matter if the presets are IRay or 3DL, I have to convert everything manually to aweSurface for scripted 3DL pathtracing anyway. The good thing is you learn a lot along the way, and can speed up the workflow slowly but surely...hopefully. And quite frankly, I don't think I ever used a mat preset out of the box anyway:)

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,710
    Sven Dullah said:
    Fixmypcmike said:

    The problem with converting manually is the number of items involved.  For example, I love Faveral's products because they contain so many different items,  Converting 100+ items manually, even if each item has only one surface, is a lengthy process.  I've tried both free and paid converters with little success -- even when they do a decent job on most of the materials, they miss enough that it isn't worth the time to do the rest.

    Well it's a tedious process but someone has to do it, right:))

    Yes, and in the old days you had to do it with Poser mats.  It just isn't worth my time anymore.  If a product only has Iray mats I skip it, unless it's exactly what I need, and the Iray products I did buy for that reason ended up not being used.  I'd rather have someone who's better at it than I am do it.

    Sven Dullah said:

    For me it doesn't really matter if the presets are IRay or 3DL, I have to convert everything manually to aweSurface for scripted 3DL pathtracing anyway.

    My problem with aweSurface is that it takes the things I dislike about working with Iray and makes 3Delight use them, too.

     

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    Fixmypcmike said:
    Sven Dullah said:
    Fixmypcmike said:

    The problem with converting manually is the number of items involved.  For example, I love Faveral's products because they contain so many different items,  Converting 100+ items manually, even if each item has only one surface, is a lengthy process.  I've tried both free and paid converters with little success -- even when they do a decent job on most of the materials, they miss enough that it isn't worth the time to do the rest.

    Well it's a tedious process but someone has to do it, right:))

    Yes, and in the old days you had to do it with Poser mats.  It just isn't worth my time anymore.  If a product only has Iray mats I skip it, unless it's exactly what I need, and the Iray products I did buy for that reason ended up not being used.  I'd rather have someone who's better at it than I am do it.

    My financial situation forces me to not buy stuff I won't use, so if I need an IRay product, I get it at some point, but I also favor products with included 3DL presets, maybe just because I would like to support vendors that take 3DL users into account. And I still use all the standard 3DL lights and shaders for my animations, you can't really beat the speed of a well optimized 3DL render, especially not on CPU.

    Fixmypcmike said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    For me it doesn't really matter if the presets are IRay or 3DL, I have to convert everything manually to aweSurface for scripted 3DL pathtracing anyway.

    My problem with aweSurface is that it takes the things I dislike about working with Iray and makes 3Delight use them, too.

     

    Interesting, care to ellaborate some?

  • fixmypcmikefixmypcmike Posts: 19,710
    Sven Dullah said:
     
    Fixmypcmike said:
    Sven Dullah said:

    For me it doesn't really matter if the presets are IRay or 3DL, I have to convert everything manually to aweSurface for scripted 3DL pathtracing anyway.

    My problem with aweSurface is that it takes the things I dislike about working with Iray and makes 3Delight use them, too.

     

    Interesting, care to ellaborate some?

    Physics covers a wide range -- at one end it's mostly mathematics, at the other end it's mostly engineering.  For me, the mathematics side is something I can understand and work with, while the engineering side is mostly memorization.  In 3delight, most of the inputs are linear (although the results obviously aren't), and when something doesn't come out the way I want I can usually figure out what needs changing.  I can even estimate what a negative spotlight will do.  I don't have a background in photography or cinematography or stage lighting, so most of the engineering details have no concrete meaning to me.  Whenever I've tried to use Iray on a scene that I think Iray will handle much better then 3delight can, it's not doing what I expect, and after fumbling around trying to figure out what adjustments are needed, I eventually give up and go back to 3Delight.

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