TIL that about 85 percent of items in the shop are "perfect" for me
mavante
Posts: 734
Among my mercurial alter-ego career personas, I've done a lot of writing and editing for publications and books. One of those gigs involved editing internet content for several years for a big agency. I would either edit an article that a writer submitted, or send it back for them to fix and resubmit, or I would reject it if it was not salvageable. If the word "perfect" (or other absolute superlatives, such as "ideal") appeared in an article, it was subject to instant rejection.
This isn't actually a "Today I Learned" event, because I have been seeing it over and over and over and over for a very long time in the Daz shop; it's just that today I got so sick of seeing it that I decided to do a TIL post about it. I can't unsee it. I'll bet that anyone unfortunate enough to read this post will likely never be able ever to unsee it again, too.
I just left the promo page for a G8 female that literally says: "She is perfect for all your scenes."
Well, no, she isn't. I mean, she's cute and all, but, No.
And not only is "perfect" in there, but that sentence I quoted above contains a version of a line that is among the biggest in-jokes in any marketing or advertising agency or department I've ever worked in, and that is this: "For all your [fill in the blank] needs!" Every wet-benind-the-ear first-year copy writer I've ever worked with inevitably puts that into an ad. And every art director or copy editor I've ever worked with laughs out loud every time, and removes it with hedge-clippers.
Open any Yellow Pages and you will see that just spewed everywhere.
Hey Daz copy writers: Thesauruses are available all over the intewebs, just a click away—and free!
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Comments
LOL, talk about nit picking and over thinking it. It's my impression that the narrative on the promos is done by the PA and not DAZ. Then again, how many really read or take the narrative into account when thinking of purchasing an addon, I know I don't...
I think you're making a a really good point. One might say... a perfect point!
Wow, ok, so I totally love this forum post -- it's articulate, well written, humorous, suspenseful, features Chris Hemsworth's face... Essentially, it's perfect for all my needs!
There are no "Daz Copy Writers". The PAs are expected to add their own copy and sales pitch verbiage to the product. Most of us are not writers, we're 3D artists. The PAs do their best even though many PAs aren't even native English speakers. So I hope that the community gives us a little slack if the copy isn't fantastic.
I can imagine after weeks and weeks and weeks of working full days into late nights on the creative process, then followed by countless hours intensely staring at minute details of a model on a computer screen, editing section by section, adding maps, textures, dynamics, rendering promos, compiling the files as per Daz format etc. all to make a single awesome bit of content for us, PAs don't have enough brain power left to even write their own names lol
None of us would!
I'm a copywriter IRL and I've considered offering that service here as a community exchange thing. Writing marketing copy is a specialized skillset, so I can understand why some PAs create a template and concentrate on other elements of presentation. When I first started my current job, I was shocked and intimidated when people above me came to me for one or two lines of text, but as I gained experience and confidence I realized not everyone is fascinated by the nuance of word order creating a difference in tone, or whatever. :P
Some of my favorite product descriptions come from artists who tell stories about their environments or give their characters lore and personalities, even if the text itself isn't polished. I also appreciate explanations of what a product can be used for, since the possibilities might not be obvious from the promos alone. Those descriptions have definitely prompted me to buy things because something in them sparked my imagination. But I've also bought plenty of stuff that had little or rote description.
My thinking is that you may be over thinking concern about my thinking, be it over or under, resulting in overuse of the term "over thinking." But, of course, that is merely my thinking—which, much to my chagrin, is not always perfect.
Hey @plasma_ring. That "one or two lines of text" certainly speaks to me. My first immersion in copywriting was being thrown into the deep end while I was a layout artist for movie promotions, with the production manager running in with his hair on fire yelling, "We've got to have 15 tag lines for this title in 10 minutes!" (Tag lines such as "You have been warned" or "One man's struggle to take it easy.")
Glad to see somebody else here who has copywriting scars. You definitely should offer your services to the PAs.
It's a sadness to me to see so many wonderfully creative projects get put up on product pages, only to have the presentation degraded by clichés, sentence structure devised by Torquemada, and gobbledegook (technical term).
Yes, it is true that some of the descriptions are as creative and captivating as the products themselves. It's regrettable that those seem to be rare exceptions.
How about you look through this end of the telescope: After all that work; after all that devotion to detail to both aesthetics and function; after all those late bleary-eyed nights; after all the testing, submission, retesting, and approval processes, why would any PA want that precious creation to be tainted, sullied, or degraded by juxtaposition with half-assed description?
Then my work here is done.
With 15 years of experience in the field I can tell you this: you are overthinking it. And the comment comes across rather rude instead of helpful in my opinion. These artists are doing their best making great art; people buy their work because it looks good, not because of the blurp.
don't care how they describe it it as long as they are clear about what is included and not too inspired by someone else's intellectual property
I haven't granted jurisdiction to anybody to monitor my thinking or tell me how much or little to do about any subject. But thanks for your thoughts.
Haha! Well, I personally hate when any degree of ass is degraded by a juxtaposition, half or full, but to spin that telescope around once more (so are we looking through the same end as at the start or have we just invented a three ended telescope?) would you have had the amazing career it sounds like you've had if every film director also wrote every tagline, every synopsis, of their own films? ;) Or if you'd had to produce the movie posters to the satisfaction of the art department with every bit of copy work you submitted? None of us are a master of all crafts. I am a fine artist and I count myself lucky to have the talented people at the galleries I work with who produce amazing booklets and photographic journals etc. of/for my exhibitions. I couldn't do all that myself, because we all have our own area of artistry.
PAs here are self-employed artists working hard. They don't have a team of writers, marketing whizzes etc, supporting them and if they wanted to have copy written for them they'd have to pay out of their own pocket.
Maybe suggest to Daz that they create a pool of copywriters to write for the PA products after they've gone through approval?? Otherwise, let's cut these hard working and very talented people some slack! They're good at what they're here to be good at :)
Haha! It is indeed: work done, submitted, and with time to grab a coffee and still beat the rush hour home
What I personally find most amusing in the blurbs is when someone in marketing decided to sprinkle SEO phrases into them. Aside from clearly having been added by someone other than the person who wrote the blurb (sometimes straying into the realm of those murder mysteries in which the detective catches the erudite killer because the note he wrote trying to sound uneducated has perfect punctuation*), the attempt to shoehorn a phrase that doesn't fit is sometimes unintentionally funny. The phrase I see most often in this context is "a premiere 3D model".
*I am not suggesting that the PA who wrote the original blurb is uneducated, merely that the style and tone of the added phrases is jarringly mismatched.
Luckily for the PAs a picture is worth a thousand words! Sadly, some PAs still don't get good promotional renders made up, but that's another topic.
Also, I have to agree with Plasma_ring about descriptions that inspire the imagination. A little story can do so much more than the generic "perfect for all your scenes"...
... people read promo blurbs? today I learned
I am just the opposite I guess since those thoughts never enter my mind. Funny, I play a VR game that uses the G2 characters and the community creates LOOKS (characters) to share and sell with other users. Lots of times I see little blurbs with them, saying stuff like "my name is Alicia and I am 23 and a yoga instructor. I like to try new foods and traveling, etc, etc" I read these and think to myself what the heck is that all about. I am guessing it's the same mentality of adding more personal, detailed descriptions with DAZ products. Personally I just need to know what is included and how to use it if needed.
This being a visual medium, it is generally accepted that the promo images are far more important than any text copy that appears in the description.
you made a perfect point there.
those writers vocabulary is far from perfect. they're not what i would call perfectionists.
To paraphrase Jack Webb (or Joe Friday), "All we want are the facts". I require no marketing whatsoever, or to paraphrase another "I haven't granted jurisdiction to anybody to monitor my thinking or tell me how much or little I need or should purchase anything". I can make those determinations on my own, if I have the facts.
Well, yes, I think it's an excellent suggestion that would be a very sound investment for Daz. I've always been amazed that they don't have in-house writers (or editors; stay tuned) that could polish up the prose for a fully professional presentation.
I don't necessarily agree that they need a pool of copywriters standing by, given the normal rate of new products hitting the stands. Probably one good, seasoned editor could handle submissions from the PAs, go through a two-draft back and forth, and end up with some scintillating copy to match the product. At the very least an editor could make sure that the descriptions don't sound like ESL (even if they are to begin with), and handle the downright abyssmal punctuation and grammar that infests many of the descriptions that exist.
On the "a picture is worth a thousand words" argument, sure, whatever. Go tell some book publishers that they no longer need blurbs or kudos on their book covers, and they will laugh you right out the door. Go tell Universal Studios that they are wasting time and money putting taglines and copy on their movie or TV or studio tours packaging. Don't be alarmed if they call security. Good copy sells.
And even mediocre copy can demonstrate that somebody thought the thing was worth caring about—as long as the copy isn't a grammatical train wreck.
Great. So why bother with descriptions at all? Why clutter the page with irrelevant text?
And if the answer is that there needs to be some kind of description, should it be as professional as the product it represents, or just some slap-dash semi-literate toss-off?
P.S. Any editor sees phrases like "it is generally accepted" as railroad-crossing flashing lights. It's called "passive voice," and assigns no source or responsibility for who is doing the "accepting." It ain't accepted by me.
Editor's note: Overthinking is one word.
MMYAIL that most sellers descriptions are BS, so i'll just judge for myself if a product i'm about to buy is 'perfect' for me.
EDIT: MMYAIL = Many Many Years Ago I Learned for those that dont know what that meant...
Fresh from rereading Murder Must Advertise (Lord Peter fans only), I'm watching this thread for the appearance of Colonel Mustard in the Library with the candlestick.
The turn of phrase doesn't bother me, really--with some artists I always want to scroll down to see what they wrote (shoutout to Crocodile Liu and RareStone), while with others it's fine because I already know what the product description will say. :)
As I understand it, many PAs do everything themselves by necessity, and any outsourcing for things like promos tends to be handled through trading products and services rather than money. It's naturally way easier to find artists in this community than it is to find copywriters, so if they need to go to someplace like Fiverr to get that service I can 100% see why the extra stress, expense, and time would not be worth it if their products are doing fine.
So after what I've seen in this thread I've decided I will volunteer free copyediting services to PAs here to the extent that I am able to, monitored by my very variable workload. I will do this as a pilot project, and can't guarantee how long it can go on, but I'm willing to try.
Of course there may be complications with Daz in terms of contractual agreements between them and the PAs, but I'm perfectly willing to sign a blanket assignment of all right, title, and interest in any editing/writing I do to help out some PAs, and a blanket NDA. As they say down in these parts, "I don't have a dawg in the fight." I will not seek, and will not accept, any compensation in any form. Just want to give a little to the creative community as I am able.
If they can get Daz's blessing, PAs can PM me here with copy they need edited or spruced up. I likely won't be able to get into substantive editing, but I certainly can do copyediting and line editing, using AP style or Chicago Manual style. I turn things around fast, but may need a couple of days if I am being squeezed by client deadlines.
I will do two edits, meaning: A) PA sends raw copy, B) I do EDIT #1 and send it back, C) PA looks it over and accepts it, or, D) PA sends it back with requests for reasonable changes, and, E) I do EDIT #2, incorporating changes. This will be the final version.
Nothing gets me to stop reading a description faster than an unneccesary "back story," I'm buying a character or a model for my story, not the creator's story. Hearing how Alicia likes scrapbooking or whatever tells me nothing about the model or how it might look in my renders.
But honestly, what's more egregious than irrelvant descriptions are promo pictures that show what the asset looks like only with the PA's specific lighting rig, or after tons of postwork to correct flaws in the mesh or the textures. I get the PAs want to showcase how great their products are, but for those that don't include the lighting set up it feels a little deceptive. It should be a requirement that at least one of the pictures on the sales page shows the product out-of-the-box with only standard lighting.