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I can see no benefit at the high end. However two 2070 Supers plus the NVLink is around $1100.
Even if you only get 14Gb of VRAM you also get 5120 CUDA which is very impressive for roughly the price of 1 2080ti.
...if you do big scenes in high quality mode and large resolution for gallery quality prints, there is a benefit.to a high end GPU.
Of course I tend to overbuild things to have that extra overhead available when its needed.
I recall that the 2070 wasn't NVLink compatible so checked on the 2070 super and interestingly that model is. With W10 each card would have about 6.8 GB available, so a bit more VRAM than my Titan-X if it indeed works, Still haven't seen any reports that it does yet either .
For those who are also into games, I can see the need for more cores as well.
I meant for NVLink on 2080's and up. The 2070 Super seems like the sweet spot. You get more for less than the 2080ti, assuming it actually works.
Well I am a large render sort of guy, for some reason I don't feel the best making tiny renders for anything other than seeing if something works.
Yeah might be able to wait till September to buy a new card for more performance, but who knows if I will have the money by then, and I would have to wait until then to render larger scenes faster and I don't think I want to wait that long.
So let me see if I get this right, 3Delight runs on the CPU (which makes sense since it renders so much faster than IRAY which runs on the video cards.
As for if I am going to upgrade my current system or build a new one, I was originally going to just replace the video card, but after looking at the size of the 1060 I have in it now and how big even just a 2060 looks I think I will have to build a new system because i seriously doubt that the case my system is in now would hold any sort of upgrades other than a ram upgrade, and then there is the fact that the MB only has 2 ram slots. I have an olf Antec case that I have been thinking of building a new system in for a while and that case is huge, (even if I did buy it in 2002)
Do not wait on new cards. Even if consumer Ampere cards come out then it will be a staggered rollout with the flagship and maybe the xx80 and xx70 cards, maybe. Those cards will be in short supply when released and the brands will have limited selections, they generally release their nearly top ends for each card. Even if the official release is the first week of September you'll be very lucky to be able to buy anything but Nvidia's, always terrible, founders editions at anything like the MSRP for a month or more.
Once there is a hard release date announced and some specs and pricing available then you could reasonably consider waiting but at this point you'd be waiting on cards that only might get released.
..yes I've experimented with 3DL and some of the new lighting/materials utilities. This scene below took about 14 minutes to render at 1,500 x 1,125 resolution. I used IBL master and an Advanced Distant Light below the ground plane (shadow casting turned off) for extra bounce. Was going to next apply Wowie's AweShader system but had a drive crash and lost the scene file. This was rendered on an old 4 core/8 thread 2.8 GHz i7 930 with 12 GB system memory.
The version of the same scene I had optimised for Iray took something like 2 hrs and 45 min at 1200 x 900 resolution.
What old Antec case do you have. My render system is in a P-193 which is pretty large, particularly for a "mid tower" (easily fits the 10.5" Titan-X). Lots of airflow as well. .
My quick google search didn't come up with a 3Delight benchmarks thread, but I did come across this post where this person upgraded from an i5-4560 to a Ryzen 3950X (16 core) CPU, and saw about an 8x jump in performance:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/402891/how-i-sped-up-3delight-rendering-x8
So if you are looking at a new machine, and are seriously considering 3Delight, a high core count Ryzen platform might be worth a look.
In any case, if anyone knows of a decent '3Delight benchmarks thread' around here, feel free to share!
The new B550 boards for Ryzen should be launching next month, and the 12 core 3900X dropped in price recently to around $420 or so. I saw a 16 core 3950X for around $720 over the weekend as well.
The X570 boards are widely available, and are decent boards, albiet a bit more pricey thanks to PCIe4 support. The 'B' series Ryzen boards generally give you more bang for buck, and it looks like the B450 boards will support the upcoming Ryzen 4000 CPUs after all (but not post-4000 per AMD), with specific BIOSes. B550/X570 brings support for PCIe4, so if you are looking forward with your upgrade choice, i.e. future support for PCIe4 graphics cards, SSDs, etc. yeah the 500 series boards... or whatever Intel is offering r.e. PCIe 4 these days/in the near future.
Note that he rumormill is pointing to a new 3900XT part coming soon, maybe in the July timeframe, which will have higher clocks (and associated boost in performance) vs. the 3900X...
HOWEVER, with any new launch these days, keep in mind that the pattern lately has been:
1) Pre-orders go live
2) Scalpers buy all available inventory
3) Scalpers resell said new inventory at a huge markup, so finding the new part at or near the advertised retail price is very difficult
4) A couple of months pass, the supply chain finally saturates the market, and prices drop back down to suggested retail.
My point in bringing this up is that if you are considering waiting on a new release, you probably should factor in an extra couple of months past the official launch date if you are planning on waiting on the new parts.
The RTX 3000 series rumors point to amazing cards, but it may be November/December before they are widely available, at or near their suggested retail prices. So if you need something before then, you can't go wrong with a RTX 2xxx card, if you are looking at Iray rendering, or other 'older' Nvidia cards for that matter.
Also, it took a few months for the Daz Studio software to 'catch up' with the RTX 2xxx cards, so keep in mind that said cards may not be supported immediately in Daz Studio...
To be honest, I have no clue what model the case is, I just know it is huge lol This is it if pictures tells you anything, it comes up to the top of my knee and I am about 6 feet tall so pretty good sized I guess, but that doesn't tell the model number lol
...that' looks like an Antec PlusView 1000AMG. Server case.
This is a Performance One P-193
The extension on the side is a 200mm filtered intake fan for the GPU. The case has provision for a total of seven fans (which mine has and it's still whisper quiet)
Server case huh? Well it is pretty roomy in there, I saw when I looked at it earlier that the fan I had put in it was a 500 watt. It handled everything I could attach to it easily One thing I wonder about now, is if that case will take pretty much any motherboard, or only certain ones or what, (Never actually built my own computer before, I told a guy what I wanted and he built the one in the Antec case and then I have made a few component changes, but that's about it, I am almost afraid to try since I don't want to screw anything up.
Mine was nice and quiet until the fans started to wear out, I went through so many fans on that computer lol
I knew it, I knew it. I long suspected it would happen. Now it's true. Digital gearheads have finally evolved to match their their ancestral namesakes by creating a thingie on the hood under which lives the oversized carburetor.
Not a server case. It's an old gaming/enthusiast case, from 2000 or so.
While it is functional as a case it is ancient and has airflow that was considered adequate 20 years ago when components used much less power. Plus the thing is literally dripping with useless exterior drive bays.
I doubt very much that GPU clearance is either very long or high.
I'd suggest getting a newer case, you could get useful things like front panel USB and real airflow.
Actually that thing is like 10 years old. Thankfully that stuff mostly didn't catch on.
Actually mine does have front USB, under a small flip down door, but Yeah the card slots are kinda close together in back, I probably will just get a new case that offers future options.
It might be a decent size, but airlflow will likely be a problem unless you have plenty of fans in there. I have a case kind of similar to that which I used for many years. I was able to make it work quite well by using 4 80mm fans in the front, which it look like yours might have space for. Or a single large fan that covers that space. It even has the same plastic pattern of vents on the front that yours does. I removed the DVD drive, and once I added extra fans, it kept a 1080ti nice and cool. And a 1080ti can eat some power, so I do think it is *possible* to use such a case, just not exactly ideal. Everything was cramped inside because of the posts for the drive bays. I had to buy a new one because I could not fit a second larger 1080ti in it.
I think for you sanity, you would be better off buying a modern case, but you can make it work.
This is my old Scorpio case, it is also vintage to 2002 like yours! When this pic was taken, I had a 970 and a 670 installed, so it could fit 2 GPUs no problem as long as they were not too long or fat, and with my mods they ran pretty darn cool. In fact I had so much ariflow in this case that my temps were actually a degree or two lower than the same cards in my CoolerMaster 500M, which BTW is a very well reviewed case by all the tech reviewers out there. So yeah, don't let anybody tell me you can't get good airflow with a case like this. But sadly the posts for the bays really cramped things up.
At any rate, this is my new case, though not quite current build.
Look how clean that is! This case has much better cable management than one from 2002 will. And its only around $100, sometimes its just $80 on sale. So with this, the biggest thing to think about is how fat the GPUs are. If you plan on doing 2 GPUs, try to avoid a card that is much bigger than 2 slots. My MSI 1080ti is 2.5 or 2.75 slots wide (not pictured here, the MSI in this image is the 970, which is 2 slots.) I made the minor mistake of not noticing how large the MSI 1080ti was. I thought I had it correct. Thankfully the EVGA is only 2 slots, so this still works. The EVGA maintains its expected temps, and the MSI is actually very cool, perhaps the EVGA blowing down on it helps a tiny bit. The MSI barely breaks 60 C in this case with Iray. Its that cool. The EVGA will get about 74 C with Iray. It can hit higher with gaming, edging up to 80. So I use the MSI as my gaming card, and it doesn't even break 70 C with gaming at 1440p and 144 frames per second. While I don't do 4k, running at high frame rates is very taxing and will push a GPU harder. The MSI is in slot 2, and my motherboard has 2 full x16 pcie slots, so this works out very well. This is really the main situation where having 2 x16 slots matters. Running a GPU at x8 does not effect rendering speed in Iray. We have plenty of benchmarks that prove this. But of course, it does effect gaming.
And yes, high end gaming is harder on GPUs than Iray. This is perfectly normal. A video game does something that Iray does not, and that is how they make draw calls on VRAM, which in turn heats up more of the card. With Iray, the data is loaded into VRAM and it stays put during the duration of the render. More of the GPU is getting a workout with gaming. So if you see a gaming benchmark and they talk about temps, you can expect Iray to possibly be a few degrees below that. Not much, but at least you know the worst possible situation.
....yeah for rendering performance that Titan-X was like putting in dual Holley 4 barrels
...works fine is quiet and didn't look so as if it would transform into a killer robot when your back was turned like so many gamer cases of the era did. Also actually does run nice and cool with 4 filtered intake (the side one as well) and 3 exhaust fans . Yeah I know, looks sort of plain but never was into the window thing as don't have any fancy lighting systems or anything like that to show off (to quote a certain galactic scoundrel: "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts...").
In some ways I always thought the side window seemed sort of pretentious like putting a clear bonnet on your car, why?.
I don't care about windows or anything of the like, my last case did include one but it is pretty hard to get a good case nowadays that doesn't.
The problem was those cases were about "looks" not performance. That front panel has no airflow and those little side vents...
I had a model down the range, which has the same front, and there was enough air-flow that the dust fiters needed frequent clearing due to the accumulation.
..actually it does as the vents are on both sides, much better than those with tempered glass front panels (which have also become rather popular) which have half the clearance.
The trend towards side windows on just about every case today is part of why I've hung onto this old monster. Also the front panel opens (and can be easily removed if need be) to expose the three front intake fans and dust filters.
Like I've mentioned, it's worked fine for me for years why replace it?
There is little reason to upgrade to a "modern" case other than aethetics. A box is stil a box and its funciton is just a volume container. Depending on your living enviroment, adding fans and frequent dusting matter more. Often older gen cases actually used better materials. My cases from early 2000s are basically thick blocks of steel or aluminum that almost no one makes anymore because premium DIY market has changed from heat/noise dampening to showing off RGB lights. OP's case a regular size ATX case. The largest consumer motherboard is ATX and you should be able to fit smaller boards (mATX, ITX etc) inside an ATX case no problem. Those front USB ports are probably useless as they are USB2 or probbaly even USB1 ports. They are very slow compared to the USB3 ports used todasy. If you are getting a new case for the front ports make sure the front ports are USB3 and connect them correctly to the MB. Otherwise just get a USB3 hub with a long cord and connect to the back. USB3 hubs are cheap and personally I found them more convinent.
Don't skimp on PSU, especially in a render PC. A top quality PSU of same power output costs only $30-50 more. It will easilly last ten or more years. Lousy PSU shortens the lifespan of all components. Partial failure on PSU is the hardest thing to diagnose on PC and a full failure could destroy components. I learned it the hard way. The extra money also get you modular connectors, which means fewer cables inside the case and much, much better airflows.
I strongly disagree with this. Modern case designs are so much better. The standard now is very open for excellent airflow, no unnecessary drive bays at the front leaving lots of room for either multiple front intake fans or a AIO cooler. Back of motherboard cable management to keep all cables out from the main area to maintain good airflow. PSU on the bottom with a shroud to isolate airflow only for the PSU. SSD brackets on the shroud top or the back panel. There is a massive difference in design from the old days. And none of that has anything to do with RGB, just good design to suit modern hardware where no one needs 5.25" or 3.5" drives anymore. Even if you do have a couple of mechanical drives, there's usually a hidden away area for them instead of the front intake area.
Why get a better case?
1) Better design. I have scars from building in those old cases. I never buy a case, for myself or to build for someone else, without rolled edges, Getting rid of exterior bays allows the entire front to be actual intake, and no side vents are not the same. I'll put my H500m against any case from 10 years ago, no contest.
2) Better features. You may think a dongle is a great idea. I don't. I also already have lots plugged into my rear panel USB ports, kb, mouse, printer, 3d printer, mic and my tablets charging/data cable. That leaves my front USB for my phone, camera and thumb drives, and my job involves lots of thumb drives. My case also accomodates my tower cooler. Your case wouldn't. It also takes my triple fan 1080 ti and my dual fan 2070, with no heat issues at all. Also USB 3 is like the easist plug ever. It's a one way plug and is completely different from USB 2 headers, and every other connector on a mobo.
My case has RGB, the two fans. But I have it set to off and never pay it any attention. I did run it through all the patterns for my wife when I first got it built just to show her.
Are there bad cases out now? Sure there are always bad designs but compared to 10 and 20 years ago?
The fans are responsible for 99% of the airflows in PC. So called improvments in interior space designs don't matter that much once you put in the massive graphic card and CPU cooler. The new cases do look better since we no longer need DVD and floppy drives, as well as mechanical HDD are going away. We also now have modular connector PSU that were very rare 10 years ago, which makes a huge difference in DIY builds. The improvement in airflows are mostly from having fewer components and cables, not changing the placements of a handful of metal plates. The caveat being unlike the case itself which are just sheet metal, fans did improve steadilly over the years because electric motors have gotten better. Most people just use the fans come with the case so in that regard modern cases are in general better overall.
The other examples people cited are not apple to apple, you get what you pay for. A $30 case will cut your fingers just looking at it, same today as it was 10 years ago. $200 case froom 10 years ago have great details, like today's $200 cases. You think cases are better now probably because you can now afford better cases. There are modern ammenities that are nice, sure, front access to USB-C just to name one. RGB ligting if you say so. Ammenities are not critical to a PC's function. OP's Antec is a fine case and sure there are better cases but they will cost more. I have over a dozen cases from decades of builds. The new ones are better because I kept moving up the price bracket. They don't make the same PC run faster.
?
I've been building PC's since building PC's became a thing. Fans are not 99% of airflow. They are just half, at most, Put the best fans you can buy, and I use Delta's in my day job and Noctua's in my side gig, in a bad case and it will still be hot as hell. If there's no intake, or exhaust, then no matter how many or how good the fans are...
Also I think the first rolled edges I saw in a case was the Cosmos from, IIRC, 2007. Still got that beast. It last held my NAS till I "salvaged" a storage device from work. I'd have my main rig in it but having that on top of my desk just wouldn't work.
Proper cable management holes came well after the Cosmos. Not sure when but something like 2011 I think.
Adding top vents I think that was an R2 in 2010 ish.
Going from 80mm fan mounts to 120mm, and bigger? Don't remember when that happened. I know it happened after 2010. Which means, fairly obviously, that cases got deeper at the same time. That allowed for tower air coolers, gave you more room to deal with cables etc. That was also when cases started getting built to take lots of after market fans as well. I think the first case I saw with mounting holes for multiple sizes of fans was 2012.
Just the simple move of putting the PSU on the bottom rather than the top has happened since 2000.
Finally going from permanently placed drives cages, that were mounted front to back and required screws directly from the cage into the drives to modular cages with sleds to just mounting positions has been ongoing over the last decade or so. That improved airflow and made building easier. Nothing can really compare to trying to attach an IDE ribbon cable and molex power cable to a drive screwed into some old POS case with sharp edges everywhere.
Just to make sure NVIDIA cards work with AMD or Intel processors right?
Yes - I have a Nvidia card and an AMD processor.
Any hardware sold for "PC" works with essentially any other PC hardware released at roughly the same time. That's sort of the point of it being an open standard.
...yeah. Like I said, mine works fine and runs cool without any exotic cooling system, runs quiet even with all the fans, and all intakes have washable dust filters. It is all steel and aluminium construction, has tool-less slide in bracket mounting for drives (which are arranged horizontal not vertical so they don't block airflow from the front, has 3 USB ports in front. can accommodate 10.5" GPU cards. Not bad for a 10 year old design.
Granted I don't have an uber-system but it's a rebuilt system and has no cooling problems. I replaced everything in the case except the front-panel switches, memory slots, and USB2 ports. I used an old HP case that wouldn't fit a full ATX card and has two 5" and two 3.5" disk cages and the power supply on the top and oodles of power cables snaking all over the place. Yes, I had to measure carefully and buy my new MSI nVidia 1660 graphics card to fit, and it just barely fit lengthwise but did cover one of the SATA connectors on the new motherboard so that I had to get a SATA cable with a right-angle bend to be able to fit in that spot, and there's only one case fan or even one place to put a case fan in the case but I did upgrade the fan to a modern BeQuiet fan. And the new i5-8xxx CPU has a quite large air-cooler on top of it that just barely fits in the depth of the case and I got some new scars on my hand from working in tight spaces with sharp edges. But despite all that, the temperatures on my graphic card and the CPU and in the case do not run very high. No, I don't do any sort of overclocking, and I have the mama-bear of RAM speed, and stopped at 32GB instead of the possible 64GB of RAM. I was afraid that my decision to save a few dollars and just use an old case stuffed with 10 year newer components would be catastrophic but for me and my mama-bear sized new DAZing machine it all worked out quite nicely. Will I win any rendering races? No, but compared to what I had before, I'm a happy camper.