Keicy dForce breast FAQ
Hamster
Posts: 41
As for Dforce Breast, I think many people will have a lot of questions. I specially set up a Q&A sheet. Any questions about use can be ask here
1.Q:Can It work in different sizes of breasts?
1.A:Yes, it can be used for any size of breast, you just need to adjust "Iterations (Per Subframe)" in simulation settings tab.
Only one rule:the bigger size of breast,the lower value of "Iterations (Per Subframe)" .Lower value give your more soft effect.If set to 1 still not soft enough,you can lower the value of Subframes.In the opposite way for small breast size
2.Q:Can it be used in other character?
2.A:Yes ,it can fit to any shape of G8F,not only Keicy.
Load "HS 1Keicy with DFbreast "first, remove the keicy head and body shpae, then load your character shape and materials.This is the easiest way.
3.Q:Why not sell separately:
3.A:Because there were similar products before https://www.daz3d.com/fg-dforce-breast-presets-for-genesis-8-female
But my DF breast obviously different from the previous products. Separate sales make me have a tough choice in pricing.I don't want to conflict with any other products.
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Comments
Hi Hamster,
first of all I would say that moving this over to the commerce section might be better. I browse that area often for upcoming releases or some reference on recently released products.
Took me a little and some searching in the forums to get used to how the product works. Once understood things are easy I have to say. Regarding #2, it would be equally easy to load the character, add the addon and then transfer the settings to both g8f and the addon, right? Because that would make it easier to transfer to an already configured character.
Funny thing is that I own the product you referenced but I did never get any use out of it. Don't know whether the work the same but your approach was at least the easier way to do things.
One recommendation for other users: Take a plan G8F withouth clothing and hair to test the simulation. That works the fastest. Took only a minute on CPU. Once (dForce) hair is involved. The simulation time goes way up. Just do a simulation with Keicy hair and which takes 15 minutes on my rig (which is a MacBook so all CPU unfortunately).
Is there any instructions at all on how to use this product in any way? I've used dForce a lot and with tons of products. This is the only one I can't figure out.
If I load the character (HS 1Keicy with DFbreast) and hit 'Simulate' in the Simulation pane, I get an error saying "No Objects To Simulate", so the product is dead near as I can tell.
You load the character with DFbreast. If you look at the scene pane you should see that below the character there is a node "add-on". Now look for the folder in the Keicy folder. Select the character and apply a preset, then select the add-on and apply the same preset. Then hit simulate. Once you have a proper pose (like any collision with arms etc. you should quickly see the effect in the simulation.
Tips：
The breast add-on work fastest in Best-continuous:CCD Collision Mode（in simulation tab).But the hair works fastest in Good-Discrete Collision Mode.
In order to speed up your work,you can simulation the one of them first.Set another one "invisble in simulation "at parameters tab(or hide it in scene tab),then click simulation.After that,you can trun on “freeze simulation” at parameters tab to save your simulation data.Now you can start another simulation,this methods can also deal with dforce cloth.
In this way the simulation time of breast less than 10s, hair less than 50s（test in RTX2080TI)
You're the first one who meet this issue. I cheek many time and haven't experienced this situatione.In general, as long as "HS !Keicy with DFbreast" is loaded, it can be simulated without any operation and without any error.Maybe you should considering upgrading DAZ studio to the latest version or restore factory defaults.
Its common practice to provide instructions. However, based on the instructions you didn't provide, I did the following in this order;
1) Load character, "HS !Keicy with DFbreast". (I verified that "HS dForce Breast Add-on" was present on the character.)
2) I went to the "Materials\dForce Breast Solution" sub directory.
3) I selected the Keicy character, and applied the "HS Solution 3 Very Soft for G8F".
4) I then selected the "HS dForce Breast Add-on", and applied the "HS Solution 3 Very Soft for Add-on".
5) I then posed the character with the left fore arm intersecting the left breast.
6) I went to the Simulation Settings Tab, and configured it, "Start Bones From Memorized Pose"->Off, then I set "Collision Mode" to "Best..."
7) Simulation processes nothing.. it looks like its shifts a tiny bit around the forearm.
And Hamster... I was not the first person to complain about "No Objects To Simulate". I was the second. Just look around, and you'll find another thread.
Personally, I like this character a lot, but I'm not sure the dforce breasts are a great addition.
In simulation tab,cheek the mode of "Frames To Simulate". If the mode is "current frame",you should turn on "Start Bones From Memorized Pose".
If it is "Animated",and you have made a timeline animation,you can trun it off to save some time.But if you don't have animation,please change the mode to "current frame" and trun on "Start Bones From Memorized Pose" .In general, keep it "on" maybe can avoid some error (depens on your pose).
Just bought/checked it out.
Thanks Hamster!
Already playing with the weights to get new effects.
This is a pretty clever use of dF for breast manipulation!
For a pose it sims so fast.
Bought your set for this dF-Breasts specifically.
Not sure how long that would have taken for me to figure out, or even if would have come up with this, and now.... I don't have to!
See why you say it's easiest to start w Keicy. But if a person dForces at all, it doesn't take long to figure out how to apply to your own character. Though just as easy to start with Keicy. Works either way.
Still too early to tell when I will use this in place of morphs, but still pretty happy it works this easy! And sims fast.
Am already planning on making the Glute morphs using this innovative product as a template.
Hope you make alot of sales on this. Great innovation. Thanks!
PS. Not sure why some people are having issues. If you load "Keicy with addon" and pick a pose where arms brush or move breasts, you'll see how this is intended for now. Or a moving sim. Effect is day & night. Didn't have to do anything beyond that.
Using DS 4.12.0.86 on Win 7Pro.
For other uses, some modifications required.
When I load Keicy, and apply gens, and set the textures to the defaults, there are seams on the gens in a default iRay render. Just zoom in and render, off angle will show the shiny line. The Normals\Bumps do not appear to match. You can also see the source of the issue in preview by just loading bump or normals in the diffuse channel. [I check this because there frequently are issues with matching textures to geografts.]
Thinking that maybe I had done something wrong, I tried to use the "materials\Skin Options" and Set "HS Keicy Gens 1 Nature". This causes errors saying it can't find the textures.
runtime/textures/hamster/keicy/hs_keicy_gens.jpg
runtime/textures/hamster/keicy/hs_keicy_gensn.jpg
As a work around I used the torso textures instead of the textures provided. (Presumably I could just copy and rename the equivalent textures in the Keicy textures directory, but I don' t know if that would actually help with anything.)
Ok, this is not working for me. Everything looks good until the end. I watch the simulation working, all is good then at the end of the arms moving the breast continues to move and then doesn't stop until it is an inch from the point of collision. What am I doing wrong? I believe I am following all the above directions.
Thank you.
This is also backwards from the way that such grafts and add-ons are used in most workflows. Normally, a user loads their figure, then adds whatever graft or add-on, not the other way around.
I'd strongly suggest finding a reliable way to make this into a graft that operates in normal workflow, because of answer 3:
Your product is visibly and demonstrably different enough from the FG product that there would be little to no conflict, and would in fact encourage improvement of all such products overall. I know from my own experience with FG's product that (as good as it is), I often end up with large concavities in the breast shapes (either individual or both of them), no matter what I do to keep them from occuring. I think you've got a good, reasonable product here, that could only make the field better and more robust through cooperative competition.
Basically, I think making it a separate add-on would result in better products all-around. Think about how this would work as a complement to the various breast-squish-morph/pose sets out there. It would make everything better all around. :)
I'm making an update to fix it
1.Check whether your arm is deeply inserted into body.2.Or adjust Iterations (Per Subframe) in simulation tab.3.Or use another dForce Breast Solution preset,sometimes the "Hard" works good in static state pose.
Thank you for your help. This product shows great promise. I would like to develop some facility with it.
Hi Hamster,
I wanted to ask, but besides loading in the Keicy figure, what might the steps be to add this to a normal G8F? As others have mentioned, having characters that are already built out a lot, it would help to figure out how we can add the addon to the figures directly and then apply the settings needed. I am really excited about what potential this product has and how I can work with it more.
Still not working quite right. It will work ok to a point and then it rebounds away from arm and freezes there. I may have to figure out how to animate to do this. I feel that if it had a couple more seconds at the end it would look good.
OK.. For static dforce renders, set the 'add on\character to hard', and 'start from memorized pose' works very well. Better than what I've seen elsewhere. (That kinda means these don't work like implants as 'hard' implants don't move. I didn't try that at first because that is how you described them. I really think you should put some simple docs and test scenes together.)
Is there any advice on how to make this work with clothing? How does this work to 'squish out' of a swim suit for instance? Can it do that? How can I do that? My first try exploded when I scaled a swimsuit to 98%. Start from memorized pose worked but only deformed around the poke through. Otherwise, minor deformations to the suit didn't do much that would be worth the effort.
Honestly looking at your implementation, I suprised you didn't think of doing glutes. That would be unique in the market, and there's more than a few folks who'd like to put some bounce in their spank. It could also help with sitting deformations.
I am still not having the results I would like. I am following the directions and still having the breast rebound too much. I need to find out how to animate and then maybe I can make the breasts 'settle' after everything else stops moving.
Does this collide with other objects or just the figure itself (arms etc).
Watch the promo video included at bottom of product page.
Have had a bit more time to play with this.
It's quite an accomplishment with what Hamster figured out. The time it must have taken.
From what am seeing, results for some types of collisions are OK if you aren't OCD about real-life look.
Based on 2 test-session i did, issue seems to be that as you word it, there is "a sudden rebound" after the initial collision phase is done. This rebound is especially bad when doing a one-pose and sim with start from Zero-d.
Animating the collision with say 10 frames of movement and 15 frames of animation remaining at the same pose allowing it to stabilize differently gave much better results. But that is too much work for every time want to use.
If I could stop the simulation and it didn't do that last snap adjustment, then all would be good. Result looked very good before that after a fair bit of tweaking.
I tried everything to stop that "rebound" at the end. Couldn't find a way yet. Will try again.
Feels to me like DAZ dForce IT guys need to look at this usage and implement a feature to make it work better.
But since DAZ officially doesn't read forums, would need to submit this a Feature Request. And then hope someone in charge likes the idea. And then wait.
And just maybe Genesis 9 has new Soft-Body Physics solution anyway? No rumors. Just probably more a wishful guess.
Maybe Hamster wanted to see demand first? And reaction. This alone would taken alot of time. Or maybe not interested in Glutes?
Given the price for this new innovative feature and a character with hair, think is a great first release. Would be kinda like saying, hey ManFriday, why didn't you include Rotations with 1st Release of Meshgrabber. As a regular Hexagon -DAZ user, don't know how you can release a product with translate only. But most people seem totally fine with it. /Just another opinion.
Saxa, thanks for confirming my issue. I was starting to think something was weird with me.
I must be missing something as I cant get it to interact with any other objects.
Fantastic work! I bought the chartacter specifally for the dForce breast mod. The hair is very nice and the character is lovely as well. Onice I figued out the reverse workflow of loading Keicy then removing the Keicy shape and then loading a new shape everything works fine.
Anyone else having success with this without using animation?
I've tested it and was fine with it. It really only collides and deforms away from a dforce collision surface. It doesn't really 'squish' away, preserving volume, and the effect isn't huge. (There are different products if that's what you want.) If you pose from memorized start, it does do a great job conforming to another object, and there will be some 'squish' visible for your render.
It offers a little sag, etc, so you'd probably only want to use that if you were really trying to achieve an effect in a still that you couldn't get from manipulating the breast bones and breast shape. I suspect that this product was tuned for animation because his animation does look very good, and that's mostly what he's talking about. (I don't do animation..)
I really would like to see this approch to dForce softbody physics as a standalone product. The reviews of previous attempt in another product were not good and there is demand for something that works.
Fantastic work! I bought the chartacter specifally for the dForce breast mod. The hair is very nice and the character is lovely as well. Onice I figued out the reverse workflow of loading Keicy then removing the Keicy shape and then loading a new shape everything works fine.
Well, I am glad it is working well for others.
Hi @Saxa --SD (or Hamster, too, if you are checking in),
Could you please share the steps on getting the G8F character to work when NOT starting with Keicy? I've tried a few things, but you do NOT want to see what happens to a Victoria with her dForce is set improperly. :-(
Thanks!
I'm guessing this wouldn't work with Breastacular...
The latest update still has seam lines around the gens. Its not fixed. I'll be asking for my money back.
Use "Delete Body Top coat bump map.duf" and "Delete Gens Top coat bump map.duf" They can completely eliminate seams between torso and gens. And give an oily effect to skin