Autofit? Clone? What do they do exactly?

reko34

I tried to catch up with the new things these days and found my knowledge really out of date.

It looks like the clothing for one figure can be adjusted to fit another. But the description really doesn't tell me whether it transforms the clothing to fit the figure or transforms the figure to fit the clothing. I remember seeing 'clone'-named morph channels in Genesis. But as far as I know, morphs change the current figure, don't affect the other. Is there a new technique?

If this can be done and the result be saved, it may also help me with the weightmapping. I can create base models but weightmapping is beyond my ability. I'm still using deforming spheres for custom G2 clothing in poser.

FSMCDesigns

Clones are the shape that the clothing conforms to when autofitted, kinda like a template.

reko34

FSMCDesigns said:

Clones are the shape that the clothing conforms to when autofitted, kinda like a template.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. If a V4 clothing is to be autofitted to G2 for example, conforming it to the clone actually makes it fit G2? So the clone must always be there(but invisible?) for the autofit to work? And the clone must follow G2 anytime when G2 changes poses?

nemesis10

rekoneal_f1320fc6b8 said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Clones are the shape that the clothing conforms to when autofitted, kinda like a template.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. If a V4 clothing is to be autofitted to G2 for example, conforming it to the clone actually makes it fit G2? So the clone must always be there(but invisible?) for the autofit to work? And the clone must follow G2 anytime when G2 changes poses?

Actually, you got every element there perfectly right and answered your own question!  IF you look at the vendor Sickleyield, she has some products that add other templates or modifications of templates too.  The one place where autofit is not great is shoes; the number of parts changes so radically from generation to generation, they are very hard to do.

reko34

nemesis10 said:

rekoneal_f1320fc6b8 said:

FSMCDesigns said:

Clones are the shape that the clothing conforms to when autofitted, kinda like a template.

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. If a V4 clothing is to be autofitted to G2 for example, conforming it to the clone actually makes it fit G2? So the clone must always be there(but invisible?) for the autofit to work? And the clone must follow G2 anytime when G2 changes poses?

Actually, you got every element there perfectly right and answered your own question!  IF you look at the vendor Sickleyield, she has some products that add other templates or modifications of templates too.  The one place where autofit is not great is shoes; the number of parts changes so radically from generation to generation, they are very hard to do.

In fact I'm more confused with the weightmapping now. I thought it was the clone which helped transform V4 sphere zone to G2 weightmap, like reverse calculation. If the clone serves only as a posing tool, there's another tool which morphs the clothing shape and generates the weightmap?

Eden Evergreen

During generation 3, as in Michael 3, Victoria 3, Hiro 3, Aiko 3, etc., there weren't all that many significant morph packages. Instead, there were a variety of separate figures. Each of those separate figures had his or her own wardrobe (clothes designed specifically for that figure). Several outfits had no morphs in them at all, which meant that if one used any body morphs when customizing a character, only clothes including those specific morphs would fit properly.

In the days when V4 and M4 were new, the same was true for them. Then ... instead of making another batch of different characters, Aiko 4 and Hiro 4 were add-ons for V4 and M4. Girl 4 was another V4 add-on, etc. If one used any morphs from Aiko 4 on Victoria 4, then the only clothes that would fit the edited character were the ones which included Aiko 4 morphs (in most cases, unimesh add-ons).

With a weightmapped figure, that's no longer an issue. Genesis 2 female clothes, for example, will fit any Genesis 2 female character - including Aiko 6. No need to buy "unimesh" add-ons. With weight-mapped, it's all built in... whenever it's for the same generation and gender (except the first Genesis, because that one tried to combine both genders ... results were sufficiently imperfect that future generations returned to separating male and female).

...

"Clones" for other generations are the tool (or script or whatever you want to call it) that allows clothes from the "clone" generation to fit another generation. So if you want clothes from Genesis 2 female to mostly automatically fit Genesis 8 female, you would need either a "Genesis 2 female clone for Genesis 8 female," or else one of the female Genesis 8 DAZ core figures (see "backward compatibility" in any of those character's descriptions).

I don't claim to understand what's happening behind the scenes. I'm not technical. How I tend to think of it, which seems to work for me, is ... Without the clone to function as an interpreter, clothes from generation Q won't understand how to correctly fit generation X. They will try, because there's autofit, though they may not succeed very well.

...

If you've fallen behind, it can be helpful to know that there is no Genesis 4, 5, or 6. The number was jumped ahead, to make it match its generation.

Previously, the number after Genesis reflected which generation of Genesis was being used. Beginning at the current generation of figures, the number now matches which generation of overall DAZ figures. (Vicky and Mike were generation 1. Then there were V2 and M2, V3 and M3, V4 and M4 ... Genesis is generation 5, Genesis 2 is generation 6, Genesis 3 is generation 7, and then currently Genesis 8 is generation 8.)

...

Auto-fit, which seems to be built into all the later versions of DAZ|Studio, uses the clones to do its job best. So you should already have auto-fit, but that's only half of what you need. If, for example, you have the V4 clone for Genesis 2 female, but don't have a Genesis clone, then your Genesis 2 females can wear V4 clothing but not Genesis clothing. At least, not without tons of manual adjustments or else using some variety of converter.

I don't really know the how's or why's. I have only learned what works - from a combination of trial and error, and of seeing what other people post in these forums.

Hope it helps.

reko34

Eden Evergreen said:

In the days when V4 and M4 were new, if you used any morph dials, only clothes which included the morphs you used would fit the edited figure. Do you recall how Aiko 4 and Hiro 4 were add-ons for V4 and M4? If one used any morphs from Aiko 4 on Victoria 4, then the only clothes that would fit the edited character were the ones which included Aiko 4 morphs (in most cases, unimesh add-ons).

With a weightmapped figure, that's no longer an issue. Genesis 2 female clothes, for example, will fit any Genesis 2 female character - including Aiko 6. No need to buy "unimesh" add-ons. With weight-mapped, it's all built in... whenever it's for the same generation and gender (except the first Genesis, but that one's unusual).

"Clones" for other generations are the tool (or script or whatever you want to call it) that allows clothes from the "clone" generation to fit another generation. So if you want clothes from Genesis 2 female to mostly automatically fit Genesis 8 female, you would need either a "Genesis 2 female clone for Genesis 8 female," or else one of the female Genesis 8 DAZ core figures (see "backward compatibility" in any of those character's descriptions).

If you've fallen behind, it can be helpful to know that there is no Genesis 4, 5, or 6. The number was jumped ahead, to make it match its generation.

Previously, the number after Genesis reflected which generation of Genesis was being used. Beginning at the current generation of figures, the number now matches which generation of overall DAZ figures. (Victoria and Michael were generation 1. Then there were V2 and M2, V3 and M3, V4 and M4 ... Genesis is generation 5, Genesis 2 is generation 6, Genesis 3 is generation 7, and then currently Genesis 8 is generation 8.)

Auto-fit, which seems to be built into all the later versions of DAZ|Studio, uses the clones to do its job best. So you should already have auto-fit, but that's only half of what you need. If, for example, you have the V4 clone for Genesis 2 female, but don't have a Genesis clone, then your Genesis 2 females can wear V4 clothing but not Genesis clothing. At least, not without tons of manual adjustments and maybe run those clothes through some variety of converter.

I don't know the how's or why's. I have only learned what works - from a combination of trial and error, and of seeing what other people post in these forums.

Hope it helps.

Thanks for the very detailed info.

I'm considering the possibility of transfering custom poser resources to daz format, and they use the very old deforming sphere zones for bone control, thanks to my poor ability.

I suppose a autofitted clothing has new weightmaps, otherwise it no longer fits the body as soon as the body changes pose. So if I create a cloth for V4 and have V4 for G2 clone, will DS calculate the weightmaps for me to fit G2? That can be an easier way to make G2 clothing because I can't create weightmaps.

Eden Evergreen

You're welcome.

If you have the V4 clone for Genesis 2 female, then yes. Any clothing created for V4 -should- fit your Genesis 2 female, regardless of what morphs or poses you use, reasonably well. Sometimes long skirts, for example, can come out looking a bit "off.". Or auto-fitted clothing may sometimes have a "shrink wrapped" or "painted on" look.

DAZ store offers products to assist, if/when autofit doesn't quite do its job perfectly.

https://www.daz3d.com/fit-control-for-genesis-and-genesis-2-female-s
https://www.daz3d.com/fit-control-for-genesis-and-genesis-2-male-s

https://www.daz3d.com/genx2-addon-for-genesis-2
https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-generation-x2

https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-2-cross-figure-resource-kit
https://www.daz3d.com/merchant-resource-genesis-2-females-starter-suits

https://www.daz3d.com/sickle-dress-rig-genesis-2-female
https://www.daz3d.com/sickle-tunic-rig-genesis-2-male

Hopefully, if you find yourself disappointed with the autofit+clone results, some combination of the linked items above will help you resolve / perfect those results. D-formers should still be available, also, if that seems to work best for you. (I never quite got the hang of Dformers, myself. Guess my abilities are poorer than yours?) 

Happy art-ing!