Cararra * Pro Bug Ridden?

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  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,298
    edited December 1969

    HI IIngvar :)

    I'm with you on all of that.
    As a Scot, we have a concept of "Stewardship", ....We're here to look after the earth, ....not to claim "Ownership" of areas of it and exploit it / destroy it.

    any links to the DEM data ?

    :)

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:
    I'm with you on all of that.
    As a Scot, we have a concept of "Stewardship", ....We're here to look after the earth, ....not to claim "Ownership" of areas of it and exploit it / destroy it.
    any links to the DEM data ?

    Thank you for the support, that warms my heart.
    Data can be downloaded here, you can probably use Google to translate from Norwegian, unless you are several hundred years old :)
    I was told that Norwegians and Scots could understand each other pretty well in the old days.

    http://data.kartverket.no/download/content/geodataprodukter?korttype=3595&aktualitet=All&datastruktur=All&dataskema=All

    Cinema 4D also has a plugin, called DEM EARTH, which uses a server for DEM data which costs money, per month. I bought the plugin and subscribed to the server, but the data was so iffy that it was almost useless.
    The Norwegian DEM data is frightening accurate, almost down to rocks in the terrain.

    Stay in touch :)

    -Ingvar

  • 3DAGE3DAGE Posts: 3,298
    edited December 1969

    Thanks :)

    Yes,. Old Scot's (Auld scoats) words like "Braw" (good) and "Kirk" (Church) and many others still in general use today.

    I've been watching some films recently,. like Vares.. and Varg Veum. and found that I understood some of it without the subtitles.
    they may not be the best films ever made, but there's a different vibe, and a fresh perspective from European writing and acting that you don't get from the pre-set repetitive story lines of most stuff.

    I'll keep in touch :)
    Andy

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    3DAGE said:

    but there's a different vibe, and a fresh perspective from European writing and acting that you don't get from the pre-set repetitive story lines of most stuff.

    Absolutely!
    As a matter of fact, Scotland was one of the first countries I ever visited, Glasgow, Edinburgh. Many years ago. I rented a car in Glasgow, and drove to Edinburgh, over the weekend. Imagine - driving on the left side, left hand car, and then coming to a crossing with the sign:
    "Double experimental roundabout" :)
    But man, how careful the Scots drove those days.. so different from what I was used to in Norway! So it was no problem for me at all, just fun.

    -Ingvar

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 759
    edited December 1969

    Hi Ingvarai,

    I love the work you've shown. Especially the snowman vid. I've never yet made anything that shows a world - everything I've done in Carrara (or Iclone which I have) is always some experiment where the aesthetic aspect is put totally aside. I always tell myself that the great work intended to please will emerge one day.

    A long, long time ago Cinema 4D seemed to belong in a category along with Carrara, Truespace, Realsoft 3d and others. The difference being that other modules were required for Cinema 4d. (I was buying occasional 3D magazines long before I got into this).

    Then Cinema 4D launched into the heavens price-wise. But I've no doubt its price is in keeping with its features.

    The other rivals to Carrara all seem to have disappeared, which is partly why I now value it as a hobbyist using modest hardware.

    Something I wondered when Carrara users were very irate over Daz's lack of development of Carrara was how much of their attention was being diverted to making lip-synch of Genesis work in iclone. At that time many iclone users were extremely angry that the promised lip-synch hadn't materialised. On both forums people were talking about the 'standstill' and some were bitter about it.

    Maybe both companies were too gracious to blame the other? Obviously I don't know, I really don't. But iclone got lip-synch and shortly after Carrara 8.5 was released.

    Like 3dAge, I'm in Scotland - I'm the one who stands outside his Baronial mansion on wild, stormy nights shouting 'Dang you, 3dage, dang you to heck' (or similar words) before being gently led away by family members who knew where to find me.

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,907
    edited December 1969

    Hallo Ingvar,
    Du er programmerer, kan du... oh, sorry... can you carry out the equivalent of the plugin “Thrausi” for Carrara ?
    Takk !

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 8,910
    edited December 1969

    Hallo Ingvar,
    Du er programmerer, kan du... oh, sorry... can you carry out the equivalent of the plugin “Thrausi” for Carrara ?
    Takk !

    Will you please refrain from speaking in your native Klingon DUDU? ;-P

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hallo Ingvar,
    Du er programmerer, kan du... oh, sorry... can you carry out the equivalent of the plugin “Thrausi” for Carrara ?
    Takk !

    Hei!
    No, I cannot program for Carrara. I do not have the SDK, in fact, I do not know to what extent SDKs are available for Carrara development.
    When it comes to Thrausi, I think it has been superseded by something called Nitro and Nitroblast.
    Lykke til!

    -Ingvar

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969


    I love the work you've shown. Especially the snowman vid. I've never yet made anything that shows a world - everything I've done in Carrara (or Iclone which I have) is always some experiment where the aesthetic aspect is put totally aside. I always tell myself that the great work intended to please will emerge one day.

    Hi Marcus!
    Thank you for the kind words! My harddisk is full of 3D experiments, like you have, only a few are like the ones I have uploaded to the Internet. I have read your post with interest, and have a few comments.
    I myself do not use the word hobbyist much. Of course 3D can be, and is, a hobby for many people. But if you mainly do video documentary, Carrara might be exactly the right tool for you, even when you are a professional. 3D is not your main profession, but you need a 3D logo, an animated Character and the like. Look at this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJj8-PTsrqI

    I made this for Norway's largest IT company, Visma. In the beginning, you see two characters walking up to each others. This animation is made in Carrara! Originally the animation was longer, but the employer wanted it shorter.
    So Carrara may be just up your alley, even as a professional. Easy to learn, easy to use. The assembly room is even better than Cinema 4D, I say this, even how much I like C4D. C4D doesn't have a Collision switch!

    The challenge, for DAZ 3D and for all others, is how to position the product in the market. I few years ago, the was a distinct line between the various applications. We used Photoshop for Images, After Effects for composing, Cakewalk Sonar or Sony Sound Forge for sound, and Carrara and C4D, Maya etc for 3D animations. But the borderline has been broken. Photoshop can now load AVI files, After Effects can do 3D (Cineware), and who knows, maybe music will be edited in Cinema 4D soon..
    This meltdown / merging of functionality is confusing, ain't it?

    And then we have Blender. Which is free. And is getting really powerful.
    About iClone and this product family.. I purchased Crazy Talk, but I have such a hard time with the awkward user interface that I hope I never will have to use it. Look like iClone has the same disease.. :)
    In any case, it takes time to learn a 3D application, so I'd better stick to one and learn it well.

    -Ingvar

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 759
    edited April 2014

    Hi Invarai,

    Thanks for your interesting reply. Yes, there has been a development over the years in 3d software which even I, from the sidelines, could follow. At one time (apparently) spline modelling was used much more than it is now - although it is by no means dead, it is as good as it always was. But, the desire to animate has led to most objects being created with subdivision surfaces and with much attention being paid to edge-loops.

    Then there are relatively new ways of starting out a work: packages like zbrush, 3dcoat or even lower-cost offerings such as curvy3d offer ways to build models from scratch in an artistic way. (I think that Carrara's metaball modeller could still be a good starting point for creating a mesh to take into Sculptris but, of course it must have been cutting-edge when it first appeared ).

    These sculpting packages in turn lead to the requirement for re-topology packages, then there is UV unwrapping and texturing, lighting - so many skills are needed. So, it does make perfect sense for a professional to opt for one major platform for getting the work done in a timely manner.

    Since I don't have the pressures of being a professional in this field, I would be happy some day just to create something of my own. For example to tell the story of an opera such as Puccini's La Boheme in a series of renders or even in animation. A few home-made characters and clothing and a few limited settings should be within the reach of one person.

    My belief is that, if a story is good, it can be told even in the simplest of ways. There are people seriously animating using Lego pieces for stop-motion and doing it really well. And, in my opinion, excellent sound and voice-acting can make even the most primitive visuals come to life.

    I was first attracted to 3d by being immersed in the first Tomb Raider game. (I was strictly a non-gamer and bought it on a whim years after its release - from a bargain bin in the shop). What impressed me was the vast, atmospheric world and the cut-scenes. The extreme low-poly animation didn't matter to me then - or even now. (Today there are many people creating their own Tomb Raider adventures with the Level Editor and some of these are superb - all for free.)

    I don't feel I should discuss Iclone in this forum but I enjoy it because it does give me ready-made low-poly assets (that will never compare with DAZ's) and lets me try things out quickly. I must say that the interface didn't frustrate me but I think doing an animation in earnest throws up many difficulties, judging by the forum discussions.

    As usual, I've rambled on a bit - I hope 3dage knew I was jesting earlier.

    Post edited by Marcus Severus on
  • Diomede_CarraraDiomede_Carrara Posts: 9,056
    edited December 1969

    ingvarai said:

    I was told that Norwegians and Scots could understand each other pretty well in the old days.

    http://data.kartverket.no/download/content/geodataprodukter?korttype=3595&aktualitet=All&datastruktur=All&dataskema=All

    Cinema 4D also has a plugin, called DEM EARTH, which uses a server for DEM data which costs money, per month. I bought the plugin and subscribed to the server, but the data was so iffy that it was almost useless.

    Glad someone could understand the Scots because I spent a semester in Sterling and couldn't understand a word spoken north of Inverness. Rented a car to drive up to the ferry to the Orkneys and had a bad run-in with a sheep trailer. Story for another day.

    This might be the wrong forum for this question, but as long as the topic of DEM files has come up, I tried to load a DEM file in Bryce (it has a load .dem option in the file menu) in order to convert it and bring it into Carrara, but i got an error loading it into Bryce. Other than DCG's ground control and the C4D option mentioned above, what are the options for bringing DEM files into Carrara?

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 8,910
    edited December 1969

    Just a comment or two about spline models since it was brought up. ;-)

    Vertex models can be more versatile in many situations, but I certainly don't think that they're any more efficient for animation. In fact, spline models are keyframeable (to coin a word) within the modeler, whereas vertex models are not. I've also read some things that suggest they can be more efficient as far as system resources are concerned. I know from my experience that I would rather replicate 10,000 spline objects than 10,000 vertex objects.

    I now return you to your regularly scheduled Scottish thread hijacking..... :lol:

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 759
    edited December 1969

    Hi evilproducer,

    I'm on a very late session in this part of the world so, should you reply - apologies I'll be gone.

    I hope I wasn't sounding dismissive of splines. My remarks on splines/vertex models were only what I believed to be the current accepted wisdom - I happen to think its great that there are different ways to do things. When I first got Carrara (a free edition a while back) I used to open up the supplied models and found that they were nearly all spline-based. So I printed out the chapters on splines and tried making stuff. For me it needs a steady hand on the mouse and I never became slick at making the curves I needed. I think it needs a certain ability to work out in advance how an object can be built from outlines and envelopes - especially when the vertical grids need to be tilted. It is really impressive in its speed of execution - no stutters or waiting for things to calculate.

    Last year I cut my teeth in modelling by building a Formula 1 type of car. I began it with the Carrara spline modeller but ended up finishing it in Hexagon (in so doing I learned to use Hexagon). I could post a couple of images tomorrow if they would interest you.

    Hash Animation Master uses patch modelling which I think is spline modelling by another name and the program is supposedly an excellent tool for animation.

    Ok, now I need to re-visit it in Carrara!

  • Marcus SeverusMarcus Severus Posts: 759
    edited December 1969

    Just - re-read your post, evilproducer.

    I must look into the key-frameable part.

    Also must get to bed. Thanks for the info.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Other than DCG’s ground control and the C4D option mentioned above, what are the options for bringing DEM files into Carrara?

    One word - Wilbur ! http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/software.html

    The most amazing free app for terrains. Converts DEM data to heightmaps; you can design your own detailed heightmaps and much, much more :)

    Heightmaps work a lot better in Carrara when imported as tif.

  • Diomede_CarraraDiomede_Carrara Posts: 9,056
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Other than DCG’s ground control and the C4D option mentioned above, what are the options for bringing DEM files into Carrara?

    One word - Wilbur ! http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/software.html

    The most amazing free app for terrains. Converts DEM data to heightmaps; you can design your own detailed heightmaps and much, much more :)

    Heightmaps work a lot better in Carrara when imported as tif.

    Thanks. Can't wait to play with this program.

  • daz3d_9ff14f0c17daz3d_9ff14f0c17 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:

    One word - Wilbur ! http://www.ridgenet.net/~jslayton/software.html
    The most amazing free app for terrains. Converts DEM data to heightmaps; you can design your own detailed heightmaps and much, much more :)

    Thanks a lot for this!!!
    I worked with height maps last autumn, but never saw this one.
    Look like a great product! I tested it on a DEM file, from the valley where I live in Norway, and it is amazing, I know the terrain here very well, and it is accurate!
    Made this on the fly, have a look:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUjNFrPCUWQ

    -Ingvar

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Happy to help :)

    It really is a little gem and I enjoy the author's sense of humour. First discovered it for bringing Terragen terrains into Carrara.

  • Headwax_CarraraHeadwax_Carrara Posts: 7,614
    edited December 1969

    Nice find Roy, thanks for sharing and greetings from Oz :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Well, us OAP's are good at finding bargains - free is the best bargain! :)

    Cheers from SA

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 14,602
    edited December 1969

    Yeah Roygee, Thanks for all the help!
    I'm really appreciating it! :)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,220
    edited December 1969

    Is nada - considering all the help I've had from you and the guys :)

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