Identifying dForce content that can be used in conforming mode
kyoto kid
Posts: 41,861
...with just about every bit of clothing content having gone dForce it has difficult for those who have older systems with morelimitedresources or who just want to fit clothing without having to resort to time consuming suimulations.
It would be a big help (and possibly less work for CS having to issue refunds) before purchasing something, we could get a clearer idea if a particular clothing product will work without using dForce. It is difficult to tell just by reading the product descirptions. This is for those who have questions about specific dForce products, or for others to list specific content they know of that would also work as confroming.
First up: will the product below work without dForce?
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-goddess-of-grandeur-outfit-for-genesis-8-females
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Comments
From the readme:
Product works relatively well as conforming and dForce
It's my understanding that all clothing items at DAZ have to be rigged even if they do use dforce. I can't recall seeing any that are not. Hair yes, but not clothing.
..@ Sevrin, thanks forgot that the Readme database is actually kept updated now.
...FSMCDesigns. Good to know about hair. Some clothing though has elements which require dForce (sometimes mentioned in the product description). One I totally love but sadly required dFroce for the poncho and pants is this:
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-minimalist-chic-outfit-for-genesis-8-females
What was the issue that not having dForce available caused for this item?
The cape requires dForce.
...I checked the readme files of several random items with skirts or other flowing parts and not all indicate whether a they will work as conforming. So back to the guessing game.
Does it not load at all, or loads invisible, or loads deformed in some way, or loads ok but simply isn't useful without dForce due to a lack of morphs, or what is the issue that would be encountered? Trying to determine if there is any workaround or design clues to this item that would assist in guessing at whether other similar items would/wouldn't work without dForce.
Yes, but what "rigged" means is highly variable. For example, the dForce Kaftans G8F lack forearm bones, and the Mad Scientist G8M outfit lacks shin bones. They absolutely will not behave well without an animated drape -- not just dForce, but an actual animated drape -- because otherwise the forearms and shins will punch through and then KABOOM! To be sure, the kaftans flat out say on the product page that an animated drape is required, but Mad Scientist says only "dynamic and conforming", which is true but very incomplete.
I haven't purchased it, but it should load fine, but not fall properly around the shoulders without being simulated. This is what the readme says.
It's an item that's been in the store since last spring and there are no gallery entries that have tagged it. It's hard to say if many people bought it or can share experiences with it.
Some dForce clothes does not work well with dForce,
like the pants from https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-monte-carlo-suit-for-genesis-8-males
I don't own Goddess of Grandeur but I have the similar Olympus Goddess, which shares one PA. It does not work without dForce.
...however in the readme for Goddess of Grandeur it states in Additional Details:
Haven't purchased it yet but it's on the wishlist (waiting for the next "ketchup sale").
I've noticed that the several other dForce products I looked at have nothing under that header except a link to the file list (including Olympus Goddess).
Again trial and error is #1 no fun and =2, having to write a sales support ticket for a refund if something doesn't work isn't either.
So it looks as though, just like with non-dForce content (especially the much older and simpler content), it would be important to check for built in sit/climb/bend/wind morphs if that sort of bending is needed, perhaps from a readme file or content description if either is available. Although the lack of some bones will obviously make some things fully dependent on dForce, and the pre-dForce limitations with things like the bent knee in a standing position shown above would still apply.
I've never researched how to rig anything, I suspect I may need to learn at some point in the future.
...I wonder if we can add the missing bones in using the rigging tools.
Not forearm bones, at least. It depends on the outfit, but I actually did rerig dForce Kaftans to have forearm bones. It turns out that when you add forearm bones to long flowy sleeves, they "stick" to the thighs, for some reason, and get very stretched out no matter what you do. I've seen that behavior in another outfit that I have that isn't in this store, but didn't understand why it was happening until I added forearms to the kaftans. There's probably some way to avoid that but (a) I have no idea what it is, and (b) pretty sure the PA couldn't figure it out either, or they'd have done it. After all, they lose at least a little business from people who don't want or don't have enough computer to wrangle dForce.
It does seem unlikely that shin bones would cause that issue, but I haven't tried to rerig Mad Scientist, so I don't know for sure.
...sounds like a conflict with the weight mapping and/or collision detection. Even in conforming clothing if say I got the arm too close to the hips or waist, part of the skirt or shirt the character was wearing would attach itself to the wrists and hands.
wondering though about the legs as in the example of the Olympus Goddess to make correct it when the character is "seated" .
running 40 - 60 frame animation sims is not very good on my old system.
...wondering if PhilW's Femme Fatale Hair will work without dForce? I looked at the readme and while there was a lengthy description, it wasn't clear if the basic adjustment and morph presets would be sufficient without having to run a simulation. Still looking for an appropriate long curly hair for my Merida character.
I don't have it but I doubt it would work well without simulation.