Cheapest computer you would recommened?
mightguy15
Posts: 56
in The Commons
Basically, with tax season being in full swing, I will come across some extra money. I decided I want to get a computer dedicated to rendering. I would like to at least be able to quickly render Iray images with a minimum of 3 characters in it. Do you guys have any recommendations?
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With Iray, it's all about the video card. As an example, I'm using a 4 Core 2400G APU with Ryzen graphics, which on the price ladder is a pretty low end CPU/APU, paired with a GTX 1080 Ti. It pretty much does fine with Daz, and the integrated Ryzen graphics are driving my desktop and non-Iray Daz viewport, and the monitor is NOT attached to the 1080 Ti at all, which means that I have it assigned 100% for rendering only. Most people won't do this, but my point here is that with Daz Studio and Iray, it's best to focus your money on the biggest badest Nvidia GPU with the most VRAM you can afford.
Even at 11GB of VRAM, I still hit the 'CPU Only' rendering wall occasionally for particularly large or involved scenes, but I'd hit that 'wall' quite often if I only had say an Nvidia card with only 4 GB of VRAM onboard. Some people manage with 4 GB of VRAM, but if you can afford an Nvidia card with more, do yourself a favor and go that route.
As for other specs, 16 GB of system Ram is a good idea, 32 GB is nice, and over 32 GB may be overkill, but if you can afford more, might as well I guess. A large drive for your Daz content is a good idea, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an SSD. SSD's will lower your load times on assets a small bit, but once a scene is rendering there isn't much difference in having either, as it's the GPU doing the work, not your drives. A system with a smaller SSD and a large HDD is a nice idea, as this will lower your boot startup times, which is kinda nice.
As for the CPU, yeah 8 cores is nice, and there are some pretty good deals on 8 core Ryzens and such floating about, but I'm managing just fine with just 4 cores. If you go the Intel route, and grab an 8 core with an integrated GPU, you could use the integrated GPU for desktop and non Iray Daz Studio viewport duties, similar to what I'm doing with my Ryzen 2400G system, but the graphics performance won't be quite as impressive in gaming. The biggest advantage to having a second low end APU or a second discrete GPU handy is that you are able to work on other things while a render is baking, without your system getting oversly sluggish. But this is a very secondary consideration, it just makes things a bit nicer.
If you are buying a prebuilt system, just make sure the APU/Integrated GPU isn't permanently locked out in BIOS if a similar usage case to mine is of interest to you, and if the system has a motherboard monitor port available. For most desktop systems, this probably won't be an issue, but in laptops this will vary on a case by case basis. I had a high end MSI laptop once, and MSI removed the option to use the Intel integrated graphics from the BIOS completely. Said laptop was targetted primarily at gamers, so I'm sure MSI felt that the integrated Intel graphics were pretty much useless anyways, so wy even bother with having the option...
So yeah, focus on the GPU first as you are shopping. More VRAM good!
As tj-1etc said, it really is mainly about the video card. Until I bought my new computer with the new RTX Titan, I was doing pretty on my old system with a 1070 and those have been plummeting in price while the 2060s are almost as cheap. You DO want to stack up on ram as much as you can... I was running on 32... and get some big storage drives and a large SSD card for your C drive. For just DAZ, that's really all you need.
I'm guessing you don't want to build it yourself?
If not then it's easy really:
https://smile.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-Desktop-Warranty-Technology/dp/B07S3XD24T/
https://smile.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-Graphics-IceStorm-Zt-T20710E-10M/dp/B07XSPWMP9/
You have to add in the video card yourself at home or let a computer hardware hobbyist you are kin to or friends with do it for you. Also, Office Depot/Best Buy/etc would put the card in for you probably for less than $100.
The price for both the above is about $1200. If could stand a 32GB RAM upgrade and a 2TB SSD but then you are talking another $300 bringing the price up to $1500.
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If cheap cheap cheap is all you want then this because rendering is done on the card GPU anyway.
https://smile.amazon.com/Acer-TC-885-UA91-Desktop-i3-9100-802-11AC/dp/B07R8WK8VP/
https://smile.amazon.com/ZOTAC-GeForce-Graphics-IceStorm-Zt-T20710E-10M/dp/B07XSPWMP9/
That totals about $900. $420 for the computer and $500 for the GPU.
You can also get a nVidia 1660 Super GPU instead of the nVidia 2070 Super GPU for about $220.
That would change the prices by minus $300 so $650 for the bottom CPU/GPU combo & $900 for the top CPU/GPU combo.
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If you can built your own PC or know someone local that will put it together free for you I can tell you the parts here in this thread I used to build my now AMD Ryzen 7 2700 desktop with 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD & AMD Radeon RX 570 8GB for about $1000. You'd want to replace the Radeon GPU with an nVidia 1660 Super or 2070 Super though since you're iRay rendering.
As a followup:
There are a few $500 gaming PC build recommendations floating around on the web and Youtube these days, if you are looking at a DIY build. Of course, then you'd need to get Windows as well as part of your build. and some guides overlook that cost.
A common theme amongst these builds is a Ryzen 2200G/2400G/3200G 3400G, or a Ryzen 2600. There's also the super cheap Ryzen 3000, but it only has two cores/4 Threads. At $55, it DOES include a cooler and 3 Vega cores in the APU. Normally I'd suggest going for something a bit beefier, like a 6 or 8 core Ryzen, or the 2200/2400G as a low end pick, but if you were on a REALLY tight budget, well the Ryzen 3000 is a very interesting choice. There are gaming benchmarks for the 3000G's integrated GPU that aren't too shabby for it's price range, so it should handle the Daz viewport environment just fine, at least for non-Iray stuff. So the question would be is 2 cores and 4 threads enough for Daz Studio these days. People that have used Daz with older systems can comment on that...
I learned Daz Studio on an A8-6410 laptop with 4 cores/4 threads, and except for rendering it actually did OK. Rendering was quite slow of course, as it didn't have any Nvidia graphics installed.
There are some really nice 'bargain' Intel CPUs out ther as well, but I'm an AMD guy so I don't pay as much attention to those. They should be perfectly fine too for a rendering system build. The higher end Intel CPUs are also quite nice.
BUT, with all of that said, because of the added expense of needing to get an operating system, this is where the 'on sale' computers at your various computer stores, Walmart, etc. become more interesting. In most cases I like to steer away from HP, etc. computers, but when you are on a budget, well there are some screaming deals out there.
If you are considering this route, the main thing you want to look at is how easy is it to swap out or add a graphics card, and also how much memory you can upgrade it to later. Build quality and reliability are also important, but if it comes with a reasonably good warranty, there's also that to consider. You could pick up one of these systems, particularly if it's using integrated graphics with an empty PCIe 16 slot, and then pick up an Nvidia card for it separately. Definitely check to see if it has a suitably large power supply though. I'm thinking 500W as a minimum, 600W is better. You may get away with less, but for the beefier Nvidia cards you may end up a bit short on power depending on the quality and size of the power supply.
I should have included a 'shopping specs' list in my last post, but to summarize, if you are window shopping at your local retailer:
One other thought here. If you find a really cheap prebuilt system on sale that meets the above specs, and that has at least 2 'double spaced' PCIe-16 slots, you could use whichever graphics card is currently installed in that cheap buld, if it's a low end card, for desktop duties, and then purchase a nice Nvidia card to go in the other PCIe 16 slot.
This is one situation where buying a 'previous generation' system is actually OK, as long as said system can handle the latest Nvidia graphics cards. You can find some pretty good deals on previous gen systems on Amazon and such.
As for refurbished builds you roll your dice and take your chances, so that's entirely up to what your comfort level is. There are some screamin' deals on refurbs though!
Hope this helps!
I find myself perfectly fine with my $700 rig ($600 without the monitor), specs in the signature. Can easily render a mid environment with some dressed characters by just resizing textures. Be sure the case has space for the card and some extra fans, staying cool is essential to get good perfomances from the gpu.
EDIT. Also be sure to get a good psu with enough power and the extra pcie you may need for the card. Again, a good psu and extra fans is what keeps your gpu going.
The absolute lowest cost render rig, using new parts as the used market fluctuates wildly:
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LkMYQq
CPU: AMD Athlon 3000G 3.5 GHz Dual-Core Processor ($54.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: OLOy 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate 1 TB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($40.98 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER 8 GB SC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($382.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Thermaltake Versa H15 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($44.99 @ Walmart)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 500 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($43.31 @ Amazon)
Total: $685.24
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-01-31 17:47 EST-0500
If you have any parts already this could be much cheaper. Also if you can find a 1080ti for less than $380 I'd definitely get it over the 2060 Super. Note this really would be a potato outside of iRay rendering and the most basic tasks, web browsing email that sort of thing.
Its not what peeps wana hear, but cheapest computer is a 2nd hand computer.
On an ultra budget, I would look at an AMD Zen 1600/2600 system, 16gig memory and an 8gig Nvidia 1070. Brand new 500+GB SSD. Questionable supplier sourced Win10.
I might consider just CPU rendereing if I wasnt a gamer. AMD 1700 8 core is the absolute mininum for that.
You can normally pick up 2nd hand 1080p TFTs cheaply on your local city traders pages, rather than pay Ebay shipping costs for them.
You don't actually need any laptop/pc for Daz, a phone is fine for contacting them and browsing their site.
... Presuming you mean Studio as you're talking about Iray, then graphics card is very important.
Personally, don't scrimp on the rest, and get a card with a minimum of 8GB - imo 8GB is the bare minimum, although you can manage with as little as four, but the experience will certainly be sub-optimal.
Again imo, a Ryzen 7/ Inteli7; 32GB RAM; and 500GB SSD for C drive is a good start. Don't put studio libraries on the C drive. AMD processors (the Ryzen ones) give more for less, as do the Threadripper over the high end Intel.
Dude, you are amazing. I don't know anything about computers, I was under the impression I would have to spend no less than 1200 dollars.
That 900 dollar build is freaking boss. Thank you so much. And thank you all for your responses. You all rock.
DAAAAANG DUDE.
See I'm getting back a little over a grand. I have 200 dollars saved, so I was hoping I could at least find something cheaper than 1200 dollars.
Man, your response is right on the money. I have a friend who knows about building PCs, he's a gamer trying to get me to use PCs more often. I'll talk to him about getting things set up.
But man, I wish I could find you and give you a big hug (sorry if that sounds sketchy, lol), you just made my day with that 735 dollar build. That's how much my cpu I have right now cost, and it isn't even good for rendering or playing games.
Hey man, the OLOy 16 gig memory stick is out of stock at the moment, do you know of any substitutes I can use?
8GB is fine really. The viewport will be stuttering on complex scenes, but it works. And, memory will always be the easiest thing to swap out for more at a later stage.
First thing to cut down on for future upgrades: memory.
Shortly after I bought my current computer (almost half a year ago), one of the two 8GB memory sticks died. So, I simply removed it, and things ran fine. I had already planned to replace them in the future for 2x16GB anyway, which I finally did only last week. So for almost half a year, I was using Daz Studio with only 8GB memory from a single bank. As I said, it works, it's not ideal, but it works.
That makes the most important things to consider:
1. A proper NVidia card, or you'll be facing 7+ hour renders even when using HDRIs for backgrounds instead of proper furniture etc.
2. A decent motherboard & large enough case, or that videocard just won't fit. You really don't want to replace these!
3. A decent CPU. The time that Intel was flatout better is a few years gone already, AMDs are marginally better for some things, marginally worse on others, but, the differences are *marginal*, really not worth spending extra money for either way. The one reason why (in my opinion) an AMD CPU would be better, is that they come stock with better coolers. Overheating just is slightly less of an issue with these. Intel CPUs often don't come with a cooler at all, which makes the cooler an additional expense, no matter if you build your own rig or some sweatshop in China assembles it for a big brand, the coolers are an additional expense, and raise the pricetag.
4. A *good* power supply. Many pre-built computers come with the bare minimum for a power supply. If a system requires 320 Watts according to calculations, then you can often bet it won't come with a power supply of more than 400 Watts. 350 Watts is even more probable. Barely enough to connect your phone to your computer for charging. A power supply is also something you really don't want to replace if you don't have too much experience in computer assembly. Worst case scenario, it involves rewiring half your computer. Best case scenario, you pull a bunch of cables from it, and then have to reconnect them to a new power supply which most probably has a different socket layout.. So yeah, a 500W+ power supply is very desirable, which usually means you're buying a pre-built computer that already has a decent videocard installed, so just make sure it's the videocard you want already already.
5. Storage: SSDs are nice, because you turn on your computer, and it boots up within 10 seconds. However, per megabyte of storage, they're still insanely expensive. Almost 5 times more expensive than a regular HDD, that is. A 2 Terabyte Seagate Barracuda HDD costs less than a 500 Gigabyte Samsung Evo SSD. So, go for a regular HDD, and maybe a small (256-512 GB) SSD if you can afford it, but make very sure that the SSD is only used for your OS and maybe some program files, but no data (Daz assets, renders, documents, savegames) whatsoever.
_also Refurbished _ from like Dell or H.P.
Here are the 16GB sticks I used in the desktop I recently built:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PX23ZLS/
They were $49 when I bought them but are now $59 so maybe you can find something cheaper. Don't buy them all because I need two more of them still yet.
The cool thing about RAM is you can always get more later, as long as it is exactly the same RAM. So if the price is pushing the bank, don't worry about it. Buy what you can get away with for now and then add more when you can.
Like was said, the GPU is the king for Iray, period. The rest of the computer can be nearly junk and be perfectly ok. With this in mind, a cheap 2nd gen Ryzen would be great. You want to focus on putting as much as possible into the GPU if speed matters. Pretty much any half decent Ryzen can handle Daz Studio itself fine.
But if you skimp on the GPU, you will kick yourself for years wishing you had got something else. It is absolutely vital to find something you will be happy with.
One cool thing about Iray is that you can also run multiple GPUs. They do not have to be the same, either. The VRAM will not stack, but CUDA cores do. As long as the scene fits into each GPU's separate VRAM, then each GPU will run. So it is a good idea to at least get GPUs that have the same VRAM capacity if possible. But this gives you more options, especially down the road. Instead of replacing a GPU, you add a second GPU and get even more performance. This takes planning ahead. Your motherboard and power supply need to be able to handle running multiple GPUs for this to be possible. So I am telling you this so you can consider it.
In my signature is a benchmarking thread. You can compare the performance of the cards with this. It is not absolute, but should give a good general idea of what each card can do. The bench scene is posted in the first or second post, you can use this test your current hardware if you want. Then you would have an idea of just what kind of performance gain any given GPU benched might give you.
It is good to ask. I bought a computer once for around $400.00 15 years ago off the shelf at Walmart thinking it was a good deal. Found out I could not run all my games on it, which I bought it for, and the graghics card could not be replaced. I used it for only 3 weeks. Tossed it in the garbage just last week. Prices have really gone down fortunately. I am still on the fence whether or not I like the fact disc drives are no longer built in and bought seperately - but I hear their absence helps performance. As for RAM, I always max it out when I purchase the computer because if you just go with the RAM that comes with it I find things run too slow for me.
The cheapest 2x8 GB DDR4 kit you can get. If you can swing it get a faster kit (3000 or 3200 Mhz if you can).
12 core or bust